FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   PreferencesPreferences   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Forum index » Science and Technology » Chem » Electrochem
What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis? Sal2
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 2 [16 Posts] View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page:  1, 2 Next
Author Message
Bevan Price
science forum beginner


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis? Sal2 Reply with quote

"sal" <sal@spp.net> wrote in message
news:Xns96FA90FABCE5Fsalsppnet@140.99.99.130...
Quote:
Greets, All

What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during
electrolysis? Sal2

What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during
electrolysis. I have labview 7.1 and a DAQ card by NI insturments (usb-
6008). I don't have to use these at all but it would make life easy to
have the data collected automaticlly by computer. I'm willing to start
from scratch to by new equipment but I'm not sure what equipment to
purchase.

Does anyone have a list of things I need:

1) What I need to purchase to record the production of hydrogen and oxygen
over time via a computer during electrolysis.
2) I have a limited budget.

If your budget is tight, the cheap way is to collect the gases in inverted

measuring cylinders and read the volumes manually. Then type gas volumes
versus time into your computer.

Bevan
Back to top
<salmonegg@sbcglobal.n
science forum beginner


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis? Sal2 Reply with quote

On 10/25/05 11:03 AM, in article Xns96FA90FABCE5Fsalsppnet@140.99.99.130,
"sal" <sal@spp.net> wrote:

Quote:
Greets, All

What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during
electrolysis? Sal2

What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during
electrolysis. I have labview 7.1 and a DAQ card by NI insturments (usb-
6008). I don't have to use these at all but it would make life easy to
have the data collected automaticlly by computer. I'm willing to start
from scratch to by new equipment but I'm not sure what equipment to
purchase.

Does anyone have a list of things I need:

1) What I need to purchase to record the production of hydrogen and oxygen
over time via a computer during electrolysis.
2) I have a limited budget.

TIA
Sal2
Weigh the residual water with an accurate balance. :=) maybe


Bill
Back to top
Craig
science forum beginner


Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis? Sal2 Reply with quote

Perhaps the easiest way is to simply measure the volume of the gases as
they are produced.

A school I was at used to have a demonstration setup which basically
amounted to two inverted buret tubes joined with another tube (an H
configuration). I think the electrodes were each under one of the
glass tubes. Fill the assembly with water, turn on the electricity,
and watch the bubbles of gas slowly collect. If you use marked burets,
you can measure the volume of gas while recording the time on a
stopwatch. The whole assembly is sitting in a bucket of water, open to
air, so the pressure of the gas, which displaces some of the water, is
ambient.

If you really want to use the computer, perhaps you could find a way
for it to measure the current, both instantaneously and integrated over
time. Trying to include an electric eye to "watch" the water level in
the glass tubes is probably more trouble than it is worth.
Back to top
<HLS@nospam.nix>
science forum addict


Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:13 pm    Post subject: Re: What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis? Sal2 Reply with quote

At the risk of entering a quagmire, why do you want to be able to do this?
It might make the answer more applicable.

How much money do you have to spend?
Back to top
N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
science forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 2835

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:28 am    Post subject: Re: What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis? Sal2 Reply with quote

Dear sal:

"sal" <sal@spp.net> wrote in message
news:Xns96FA90FABCE5Fsalsppnet@140.99.99.130...
Quote:
Greets, All

What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen
and oxygen during electrolysis? Sal2

Unless you choose your electrolyte carefully, you get hydrogen
and something-other-than-oxygen. With NaCl, you get chlorine
gas.

Quote:
What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen
and oxygen during electrolysis. I have labview 7.1 and a
DAQ card by NI insturments (usb-6008). I don't have to use
these at all but it would make life easy to have the data
collected automaticlly by computer. I'm willing to start from
scratch to by new equipment but I'm not sure what
equipment to purchase.

Does anyone have a list of things I need:

1) What I need to purchase to record the production of
hydrogen and oxygen over time via a computer during
electrolysis.
2) I have a limited budget.

Measure current and *infer* gas production.
Measure pressure rise in a closed vessel.
Measure gas flow rate out of each side (thermal mass flow, or
orifice with /\P measurement).
Measure drop in fluid level (there is a joke here...).

David A. Smith
Back to top
Borek
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 157

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis? Sal2 Reply with quote

Quote:
2) I have a limited budget.

Volume measurements seems the best option. Don't forget to
measure temperature and pressure too. You may think about
asking for the pressure at the nearest airport, as they need
precise information for altimeters setting.

Best,
Borek
--
http://www.chembuddy.com
http://www.chembuddy.com/?left=BATE&right=basic_acid_titration_equilibria
http://www.chembuddy.com/?left=CASC&right=concentration_and_solution_calculator
Back to top
hhc314@yahoo.com
science forum addict


Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis? Sal2 Reply with quote

If you have advanced beyond the stage of using water displacment gas
collection bottles, were it me I'd start out with the following basics:

a. A digital atmospheric pressure sensor.
b. A digital gas flow sensor for the hydrogen.
c. A digital gas flow sensor for the oxygen.
d. Suitable digital sensor interface cards for the particular computer
you are using.(Keithley/MetraByte makes a good variety of these
suitable for use with a PC having an adequate number of PCI, ISA
or PCMCIA slots -- along with the software
drivers required to make them function.)

The supervisory software is not critical and even Labview might be
adaptable. You could even write your own application using GW Basic,
Visual Basic, or Visual C++.

Still, it will require considerable calibration and effort to not only
make the whole thing "play" correctly, but also for it to provide you
with accurate, precision results. Still, this is the type of
instrumentation used by professional researchers.

For the amateur experimentor, I would suggest that a possible solution
would be to employ separate hydrogen and oxygen collection vessels and
count the number of times that each needs to be emptied during a
specific time interval. This would give you a quantitative measure of
individual gas production rates, which from your post is what I believe
you are looking for. This may be the simplies and lowest expense
approach to fulfilling your goals.

One final thought is that a clever person could simply attach ordinary
commercial gas meters with digital readouts to separately measure the
production of hydogen and oxygen, and collect/process their readings
over time using an interfaced computer. This could be a viable approach
if your electrolysis equipment produces sufficient volumes of gas.

Hope this helps. Harry C.
Back to top
Attila the Bum
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 251

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis? Sal2 Reply with quote

Buy an inexpensive ammeter.

You can split water with a 9-volt
radio battery in the milli- to micro-
amp range, I'm guessing. Use two
or more batteries in series if you
need more voltage to get a measurable
current, or buy a better ammeter.

Place it in-line with one or the
other electrode. Record the
current periodically for some
reasonable length of time until
a noticable chance in the volume
of your (I presume) water
occurs.

Now you have two ways to calculate
the amount of gases produced over
a set period of time: (1) by the volume
of water consumed; and, (2) by the
number of electrons participating in
the reaction.

Be sure you have the air temperature
and barometric pressure for your calculations.


Atty (... to what accuracy; the big
boys were cooking at about
5% in those early days. The
history books/journals should
have the set-ups they used. Smile
Back to top
sal
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis? Sal2 Reply with quote

Thank you!!!


hhc314@yahoo.com wrote in news:1130353316.248934.164930
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Quote:
If you have advanced beyond the stage of using water displacment gas
collection bottles, were it me I'd start out with the following basics:

a. A digital atmospheric pressure sensor.
b. A digital gas flow sensor for the hydrogen.
c. A digital gas flow sensor for the oxygen.
d. Suitable digital sensor interface cards for the particular computer
you are using.(Keithley/MetraByte makes a good variety of these
suitable for use with a PC having an adequate number of PCI, ISA
or PCMCIA slots -- along with the software
drivers required to make them function.)

The supervisory software is not critical and even Labview might be
adaptable. You could even write your own application using GW Basic,
Visual Basic, or Visual C++.

Still, it will require considerable calibration and effort to not only
make the whole thing "play" correctly, but also for it to provide you
with accurate, precision results. Still, this is the type of
instrumentation used by professional researchers.

For the amateur experimentor, I would suggest that a possible solution
would be to employ separate hydrogen and oxygen collection vessels and
count the number of times that each needs to be emptied during a
specific time interval. This would give you a quantitative measure of
individual gas production rates, which from your post is what I believe
you are looking for. This may be the simplies and lowest expense
approach to fulfilling your goals.

One final thought is that a clever person could simply attach ordinary
commercial gas meters with digital readouts to separately measure the
production of hydogen and oxygen, and collect/process their readings
over time using an interfaced computer. This could be a viable approach
if your electrolysis equipment produces sufficient volumes of gas.

Hope this helps. Harry C.
Back to top
Attila the Bum
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 251

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis? Sal2 Reply with quote

I thought I had answered this
the other day. You get the
short answer this time.

Find a used DMM and salvage
the meter itself. It's an ammeter.
Calibrate it with a battery and
resistors from Radio Shack.

Stick the meter in-line with
one or the other of your
electrodes.

Write down the current flow
periodically from time to time
for a length of time long enough
to decrease the amount of water
(assumed) used in the experi-
ment.

You now have two ways to cal-
culate the amount of gas e-
volved at the two 'trodes. If
they agree within, say, 10%,
you've got publishable data
(but who cares; you ought to
check the historic literature
for a clue as to how the big
boys did it at the dawn of
what we call "chemistry" :-)


Atty (Greetings, victims of marketing Smile
Back to top
nagy@anl.gov
science forum beginner


Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis? Sal2 Reply with quote

Greetings:

There are some websites dealing with laboratory experiments on water
electrolysis:

http://www.chem.uiuc.edu/clcwebsite/elec.html

http://chemlearn.chem.indiana.edu/demos/electropl.htm

These were found in the Electrochemical Science and
Technology Information Resource (ESTIR).

http://electrochem.cwru.edu/estir/

Good luck; zn
Back to top
sal
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:18 pm    Post subject: Re: What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis? Sal2 Reply with quote

"nagy@anl.gov" <nagy@anl.gov> wrote in news:1130433301.833813.219700
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Quote:
http://chemlearn.chem.indiana.edu/demos/electropl.htm

Thanks
Back to top
oxazoline
science forum beginner


Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis? Sal2 Reply with quote

can't you do it visually?
If not, I'd put a transducer under an inverted graduate-callibrate the
transducer visually and set the recorder up accordingly
if this is a major oversimplification of the issue please explain with
a little more detail
Back to top
sal
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis? Sal2 Reply with quote

"oxazoline" <1v1631r02@sneakemail.com> wrote in
news:1130488062.001275.215860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

Quote:
can't you do it visually?
If not, I'd put a transducer under an inverted graduate-callibrate the
transducer visually and set the recorder up accordingly
if this is a major oversimplification of the issue please explain with
a little more detail



No this is not an over simplification it sounds like you know what I'm
looking for. What type of transducer are you referring to? I've been
looking for a transducer to do this but nothing I've found seems to fit the
bill.

Thanks
Back to top
Bob111
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 3:40 am    Post subject: Re: What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis? Sal2 Reply with quote

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question, but it is pretty simple - I guess
you never took general chemistry lab in high school?
Use a pneumatic trough - run the electrolysis under a water-filler
collection buret - the product gases diplace water in a pair of inverted
columns - after running the reaction, the collected gases (water vapor plus
oxygen in one, and water vapor plus hydrogen in the other - correct for the
height of water column left in the buret and for the parial pressure of
water vapor at your bulk temperature, and you have an easy way to visually
measure the reaction progress. If you are adventurous, you can monitor the
flow of current and calculate the theoretical yield (coulometry) - compare
what is actually produced to what should have been produced.
Your life isn't any easier when all your data is collected by the
computer - get involved with your science, and learn the basics. Forget the
computer - most of the time they are just useless appenadages anyway.


"sal" <sal@spp.net> wrote in message
news:Xns96FA90FABCE5Fsalsppnet@140.99.99.130...
Quote:
Greets, All

What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during
electrolysis? Sal2

What's an easy way to measure the production of hydrogen and oxygen during
electrolysis. I have labview 7.1 and a DAQ card by NI insturments (usb-
6008). I don't have to use these at all but it would make life easy to
have the data collected automaticlly by computer. I'm willing to start
from scratch to by new equipment but I'm not sure what equipment to
purchase.

Does anyone have a list of things I need:

1) What I need to purchase to record the production of hydrogen and oxygen
over time via a computer during electrolysis.
2) I have a limited budget.

TIA
Sal2
Back to top
Google

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 2 [16 Posts] Goto page:  1, 2 Next
View previous topic :: View next topic
The time now is Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:01 am | All times are GMT
Forum index » Science and Technology » Chem » Electrochem
Jump to:  

Similar Topics
Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
No new posts How to build a homemade nuclear hydrogen bomb. Lloyd Fusion 3 Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:09 pm
No new posts Einstein said: Time is what the clock measure. kenseto Relativity 214 Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:52 pm
No new posts How to measure the size of Universe! studyandjobs@yahoo.com Relativity 3 Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:53 pm
No new posts is it Lebesgue-measure zero? Li Yi Math 9 Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:48 am
No new posts meaning of additivity when defining signed measure HopfZ Math 1 Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:36 pm

Copyright © 2004-2005 DeniX Solutions SRL
Other DeniX Solutions sites: Electronics forum |  Medicine forum |  Unix/Linux blog |  Unix/Linux documentation |  Unix/Linux forums  |  send newsletters
 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1009s ][ Queries: 20 (0.0599s) ][ GZIP on - Debug on ]