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vaishakh
science forum beginner
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 23
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 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:28 am Post subject:
ideal gas theory
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How did the scientists like Boyle and Avagadro did experiments and still got results, which supported the ideal gas theory? It is actually wrong and still how did they get results that volume is inversely proportional to pressure while temperature directly to pressure. I think the only chance of disproving ideal theory is experiment. There is no theoretical reason for such a behavior of real gases. Scientists who are considered to be great developed the ideal theory. So I doubt their excellency if they made mistakes in observations. |
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G.E. Ivey
science forum Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject:
Re: ideal gas theory
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I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about!
You start by simply asserting that the "ideal gas law" must be wrong and then conclude that scientists who did experiments leading to that law must have done them wrong.
What experiments have you done to show that the "ideal gas law" is wrong? |
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Daniel Grubb
science forum addict
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:53 pm Post subject:
Re: ideal gas theory
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| Quote: | How did the scientists like Boyle and Avagadro did experiments and still
got results, which supported the ideal gas theory? It is actually wrong
and still how did they get results that volume is inversely proportional
to pressure while temperature directly to pressure. I think the only
chance of disproving ideal theory is experiment. There is no theoretical
reason for such a behavior of real gases. Scientists who are considered
to be great developed the ideal theory. So I doubt their excellency if
they made mistakes in observations.
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The ideal gas law is a good approximation for many real gasses.
Boyle and Avagadro were working at a time when that level of
approximation was the best available. PV=nRT is still very
useful for many real situations.
--Dan Grubb |
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Han de Bruijn
science forum Guru
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 1285
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:38 pm Post subject:
Re: ideal gas theory
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vaishakh wrote:
| Quote: | How did the scientists like Boyle and Avagadro did experiments
and still got results, which supported the ideal gas theory?
It is actually wrong and still how did they get results that
volume is inversely proportional to pressure while temperature
directly to pressure. I think the only chance of disproving
ideal theory is experiment. There is no theoretical reason for
such a behavior of real gases. Scientists who are considered to
be great developed the ideal theory. So I doubt their excellency
if they made mistakes in observations.
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Ideal gas theory is _not_ "actually wrong". Like all other theories
in physics, ideal gas theory is an _approximation_ to reality. This
means that it is _valid_, though in some limited sense. Measurements
reveal that p.V = R.T is quite a good approximation for any gas that
is not too dense. And yes, there _is_ a theoretical reason for such
a behavior of real gases. If you assume that a gas consists of small
"balls", with a large distance between them, then you can derive the
ideal gas law theoretically (using probability theory). So there is
no doubt IMO that Boyle and Avagadro have been excellent scientists.
Don't be upset by the fact that the Laws of Nature are _not_ "exact".
Exactness is something that belongs to mathematics, not to empirical
sciences like i.e. physics. Get used to imprecision. There are _no_
experiments without the "errors".
Han de Bruijn |
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C6L1V@shaw.ca
science forum Guru
Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 628
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:22 pm Post subject:
Re: ideal gas theory
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vaishakh wrote:
| Quote: | How did the scientists like Boyle and Avagadro did experiments and still got results, which supported the ideal gas theory? It is actually wrong and still how did they get results that volume is inversely proportional to pressure > > while temperature directly to pressure.
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The results are a good approximation to reality for many gasses that
are not too dense or too cold, etc. Certainly, they did not show that
the laws held good all the way down to near absolute zero, for example.
Deviations from the ideal gas law may be detectable using modern
apparatus and measurement techniques, but not with the type of
apparatus available 100+ years ago. In Physics, many "laws" are merely
approximations. In fact, it is VERY FORTUNATE that approximate laws
were discovered using imperfect equipment, because otherwise the
phenomena would have been far too complicated to be understood properly
at the time. For instance, Kepler's Laws of planetary motion are not
_exactly_ true, because of perturbations due to multiple interacting
planets and moons, as well as relativistic effects. However, neglect of
these (small) effects allowed Newton to properly model the force of
gravity (at least, pre-Einstein). Imagine the impossibility of
discovering the correct laws if Newton had been looking at extremely
accurate data that revealed all the bells and whistles in planetary
motion.
| Quote: | I think the only chance of disproving ideal theory is experiment. There is no theoretical reason for such a behavior of real gases. Scientists who are considered to be great developed the ideal theory. So I doubt their excellency > if they made mistakes in observations.
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Please present to us the results of experiments that YOU have performed
showing how wrong the ideal gas law is.
R.G. Vickson
PS: I see that in my preview of this message, the original message has
its line breaks broken. I hope the relult after posting is not too
great a mess. Damn Google, sometimes. |
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