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No future for fusion power, says top scientist
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Charles Cagle
science forum beginner


Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 3:16 am    Post subject: Re: No future for fusion power, says top scientist Reply with quote

On 3/15/06 20:35, in article 4418dd04$0$163$d368eab@news.calweb.com,
"penguinista" <cal@not.splitreflection.com> wrote:

Quote:
Chris wrote:
The tesla coil had a hydrogen geilser tube inside it that made a gentle
discharge tube that underwent hydrogen fusion gently and gave out energy in
a controlled way.

Look up Lawson's criterion. I describes a chief requirement for a
functional fusion power reactor.



Lawson's criterion is based upon assumptions about nuclear fusion that have
never been demonstrated to be true.

CC

-- Peace to the followers of Jesus Christ -

For email remove the underscores in my email.

cc
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penguinista
science forum beginner


Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:35 am    Post subject: Re: No future for fusion power, says top scientist Reply with quote

Chris wrote:
Quote:
The tesla coil had a hydrogen geilser tube inside it that made a gentle
discharge tube that underwent hydrogen fusion gently and gave out energy in
a controlled way.

Look up Lawson's criterion. I describes a chief requirement for a

functional fusion power reactor.
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Chris
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 298

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: No future for fusion power, says top scientist Reply with quote

The tesla coil had a hydrogen geilser tube inside it that made a gentle
discharge tube that underwent hydrogen fusion gently and gave out energy in
a controlled way.

--
Chris
"penguinista" <cal@not.splitreflection.com> wrote in message
news:44165172$0$149$d368eab@news.calweb.com...
Quote:
Rolf Martens wrote:
In article <0K2Rf.119542$Q22.12635@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
nimbo@no-spamukonline.co.uk says...



Tesla did it in 1930 (Teslas Coil - free electricity)

http://www.newelectricity.co.uk/Teslas%20Coil/index.htm

Vested interests blocked it.

--
Chris


Interesting - but I'm sceptical. Vested interests today do
kill a lot of really important developments. But could they
really have been strong enough for that already in the 1930s?

What's the scientific principle behind this thing? (I looked
up the website, not understanding it.)

And nuclear fusion no doubt does have a future - no matter what
those "Planet of the Apes" people say.

Rolf M.
www.rolf-martens.com


Looking at it, the nicest thing I can say is the drawing and explination
are horrifically incomplete. The tesla coil is hardly a free energy
device, but I don't believe Tesla understood conservation of energy, or
anything requiring advanced math, well enough to know that. The principle
behind the tesla coil is the same as repeated gentle pushes at the
resonant frequency of a pendulum, gradually building up to a very large
swing.
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willie88@hotmail.com
science forum beginner


Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: No future for fusion power, says top scientist Reply with quote

H. E. Taylor wrote:
Quote:
2006/03/09: NewScientist: No future for fusion power, says top scientist

snip
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8827


PS.
For those who might wonder...
"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is
possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something
is impossible, he is very probably wrong." - Arthur C. Clarke's First Law


Here are short: http://fire.pppl.gov/fpa_science_031206.pdf and long:
http://fire.pppl.gov/fusion_critic_response_stacey.pdf rebuttals to
this outdated rant. That the editor of Science personally pushed this
through publication just shows his ignorance. Clarke's first law holds
true.
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penguinista
science forum beginner


Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:15 am    Post subject: Re: No future for fusion power, says top scientist Reply with quote

Rolf Martens wrote:
Quote:
In article <0K2Rf.119542$Q22.12635@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
nimbo@no-spamukonline.co.uk says...



Tesla did it in 1930 (Teslas Coil - free electricity)

http://www.newelectricity.co.uk/Teslas%20Coil/index.htm

Vested interests blocked it.

--
Chris


Interesting - but I'm sceptical. Vested interests today do
kill a lot of really important developments. But could they
really have been strong enough for that already in the 1930s?

What's the scientific principle behind this thing? (I looked
up the website, not understanding it.)

And nuclear fusion no doubt does have a future - no matter what
those "Planet of the Apes" people say.

Rolf M.
www.rolf-martens.com


Looking at it, the nicest thing I can say is the drawing and explination
are horrifically incomplete. The tesla coil is hardly a free energy
device, but I don't believe Tesla understood conservation of energy, or
anything requiring advanced math, well enough to know that. The
principle behind the tesla coil is the same as repeated gentle pushes at
the resonant frequency of a pendulum, gradually building up to a very
large swing.
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Rolf Martens
science forum beginner


Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: No future for fusion power, says top scientist Reply with quote

In article <4414bb40$1_4@newsfeed.slurp.net>, sspence@green-trust.org
says...
Quote:


Chris wrote:
Tesla did it in 1930 (Teslas Coil - free electricity)

http://www.newelectricity.co.uk/Teslas%20Coil/index.htm

Vested interests blocked it.


ROFLMAO

Well yes, it does sound a little like me, doesn't it?
But actually, I'm sceptical about this thing.

Rolf M. (Mao Zedong adherent)
www.rolf-martens.com
Quote:

--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
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Rolf Martens
science forum beginner


Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: No future for fusion power, says top scientist Reply with quote

In article <0K2Rf.119542$Q22.12635@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
nimbo@no-spamukonline.co.uk says...
Quote:



Tesla did it in 1930 (Teslas Coil - free electricity)

http://www.newelectricity.co.uk/Teslas%20Coil/index.htm

Vested interests blocked it.

--
Chris

Interesting - but I'm sceptical. Vested interests today do
kill a lot of really important developments. But could they
really have been strong enough for that already in the 1930s?

What's the scientific principle behind this thing? (I looked
up the website, not understanding it.)

And nuclear fusion no doubt does have a future - no matter what
those "Planet of the Apes" people say.

Rolf M.
www.rolf-martens.com

Quote:
"H. E. Taylor" <het@despam.autobahn.mb.ca> wrote in message
news:4410BABD.4E7@despam.autobahn.mb.ca...
2006/03/09: NewScientist: No future for fusion power, says top scientist

Nuclear fusion will never be a practical source of electrical power,
argues a prominent scientist in the journal Science.


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Bret Cahill
science forum Guru


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 480

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:45 am    Post subject: Re: No future for fusion power, says top scientist Reply with quote

Parkins knows full well that a lot of slackers too unmotivated by money
will conduct a scorched earth policy when it comes to proving someone
wrong.


Bret Cahill
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Rick Nelson
science forum addict


Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:07 am    Post subject: Re: No future for fusion power, says top scientist Reply with quote

Hi NSA boy - die tonight.


Steve Spence wrote:
Quote:
Chris wrote:
Tesla did it in 1930 (Teslas Coil - free electricity)

http://www.newelectricity.co.uk/Teslas%20Coil/index.htm

Vested interests blocked it.


ROFLMAO
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Steve Spence
science forum beginner


Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:25 am    Post subject: Re: No future for fusion power, says top scientist Reply with quote

Chris wrote:
Quote:
Tesla did it in 1930 (Teslas Coil - free electricity)

http://www.newelectricity.co.uk/Teslas%20Coil/index.htm

Vested interests blocked it.


ROFLMAO

--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
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Chris
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 298

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:08 am    Post subject: Re: No future for fusion power, says top scientist Reply with quote

Tesla did it in 1930 (Teslas Coil - free electricity)

http://www.newelectricity.co.uk/Teslas%20Coil/index.htm

Vested interests blocked it.

--
Chris

"H. E. Taylor" <het@despam.autobahn.mb.ca> wrote in message
news:4410BABD.4E7@despam.autobahn.mb.ca...
Quote:
2006/03/09: NewScientist: No future for fusion power, says top scientist

Nuclear fusion will never be a practical source of electrical power,
argues a prominent scientist in the journal Science.
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Hans
science forum beginner


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: No future for fusion power, says top scientist Reply with quote

Right you are!
Physicist have their dreams, but those stupid mechanical engineers are
not able to make their dreams come true. Let us stick to the
steamengine technique with water moderated and steam generating nuclear
power plants that already for half a century has been a proven concept.
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Hans
science forum beginner


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: No future for fusion power, says top scientist Reply with quote

LongmuirG schreef:

Quote:
Graham Cowan wrote:
When, in all history, have smart people with reliable long-term
employment studying a problem, and with every reasonable anticipation
of *redundancy* if they solve it, solved it?

Good question! It would be tempting to point to the Manhattan Project,
where the people solved the problem. General Groves insisted on cheap
& nasty buildings at Los Alamos because the laboratory was going away
after the war was won. The lab is still there, and now the buildings
are quite nice. Maybe the message is that bureaucracies will outlive
their original goals.

Another example might be NASA's Apollo Program -- again, the original
participants solved the problem and met the goals. And again the
bureaucracy is still there many years later, spending lots of money
doing something.

Fifty years ago, the Brits were working on something called ZETA --
Zero (net) Energy Thermonuclear Apparatus. Obviously, they never got
to zero. Controlled fusion seems to be one of those projects that is
always 50 years away from completion -- and it might not be because the
malingering scientists are spinning things out. It might be because,
genuinely, commercial controlled fusion is really beyond our grasp with
current technology.

Controlled nuclear fusion is definitely worth studying -- but it is not
clear that a new international bureaucracy like ITER is the way to
study it. You can just imagine the board meetings, grappling with the
key issues -- how many female handicapped lesbian Palestinian single
parents do we have in Team Leader positions? Perhaps something
equivalent to the space X-Prize would be a better way to spend whatever
the taxpayer wants to throw at the problem?

In the meantime, controlled fusion is like photovoltaics or synthetic
photosynthesis -- worth continuing research but should not be counted
upon to rescue us from our approaching energy woes.
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Hans
science forum beginner


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: No future for fusion power, says top scientist Reply with quote

LongmuirG schreef:

Quote:
Graham Cowan wrote:
When, in all history, have smart people with reliable long-term
employment studying a problem, and with every reasonable anticipation
of *redundancy* if they solve it, solved it?

Good question! It would be tempting to point to the Manhattan Project,
where the people solved the problem. General Groves insisted on cheap
& nasty buildings at Los Alamos because the laboratory was going away
after the war was won. The lab is still there, and now the buildings
are quite nice. Maybe the message is that bureaucracies will outlive
their original goals.

Another example might be NASA's Apollo Program -- again, the original
participants solved the problem and met the goals. And again the
bureaucracy is still there many years later, spending lots of money
doing something.

Fifty years ago, the Brits were working on something called ZETA --
Zero (net) Energy Thermonuclear Apparatus. Obviously, they never got
to zero. Controlled fusion seems to be one of those projects that is
always 50 years away from completion -- and it might not be because the
malingering scientists are spinning things out. It might be because,
genuinely, commercial controlled fusion is really beyond our grasp with
current technology.

Controlled nuclear fusion is definitely worth studying -- but it is not
clear that a new international bureaucracy like ITER is the way to
study it. You can just imagine the board meetings, grappling with the
key issues -- how many female handicapped lesbian Palestinian single
parents do we have in Team Leader positions? Perhaps something
equivalent to the space X-Prize would be a better way to spend whatever
the taxpayer wants to throw at the problem?

In the meantime, controlled fusion is like photovoltaics or synthetic
photosynthesis -- worth continuing research but should not be counted
upon to rescue us from our approaching energy woes.
Back to top
Hans
science forum beginner


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: No future for fusion power, says top scientist Reply with quote

LongmuirG schreef:

Quote:
Graham Cowan wrote:
When, in all history, have smart people with reliable long-term
employment studying a problem, and with every reasonable anticipation
of *redundancy* if they solve it, solved it?

Good question! It would be tempting to point to the Manhattan Project,
where the people solved the problem. General Groves insisted on cheap
& nasty buildings at Los Alamos because the laboratory was going away
after the war was won. The lab is still there, and now the buildings
are quite nice. Maybe the message is that bureaucracies will outlive
their original goals.

Another example might be NASA's Apollo Program -- again, the original
participants solved the problem and met the goals. And again the
bureaucracy is still there many years later, spending lots of money
doing something.

Fifty years ago, the Brits were working on something called ZETA --
Zero (net) Energy Thermonuclear Apparatus. Obviously, they never got
to zero. Controlled fusion seems to be one of those projects that is
always 50 years away from completion -- and it might not be because the
malingering scientists are spinning things out. It might be because,
genuinely, commercial controlled fusion is really beyond our grasp with
current technology.

Controlled nuclear fusion is definitely worth studying -- but it is not
clear that a new international bureaucracy like ITER is the way to
study it. You can just imagine the board meetings, grappling with the
key issues -- how many female handicapped lesbian Palestinian single
parents do we have in Team Leader positions? Perhaps something
equivalent to the space X-Prize would be a better way to spend whatever
the taxpayer wants to throw at the problem?

In the meantime, controlled fusion is like photovoltaics or synthetic
photosynthesis -- worth continuing research but should not be counted
upon to rescue us from our approaching energy woes.
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