|
|
| Author |
Message |
Jon Baum
science forum beginner
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 3
|
 Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:41 am Post subject:
Request information about the sale price of a fully automated miniature submarine.
|
|
|
Hello, my name is Jon Baum, and I am a Professor of Engineering at
an Arizona University. At the beginning of every year, I assign my
students a problem that has to be solved, a class project, if you like,
and at the end of each year, I take and frequently accept proposals
from the class of that year about what the next year's project should
be. One particularly intelligent student this year suggested that the
next year's class should have the problem of building a fully automated
submarine. I immediately seized upon the idea, as it presents numerous
challenges, as well as being quite interesting from an aesthetic
standpoint as well as an engineering one. The proposal was as follows
(paraphrased, and with minor adjustments by myself):
A competent and elegant solution must be reached for the
following problem:
Construction of a working submarine, not exceeding in length 50
centimeters, in height and width 15 centimeters. Said submarine must be
able to attain a depth 100 meters below the surface of a body of fresh
water. It also must be fully automated, requiring no direct control,
and capable of responding to stimulus competently. It must be seaworthy
enough to withstand with no repairs a vowage of six weeks, carry enough
sensory equipment to navigate, enough computing power to avoid
detection, and it must be able to carry a payload (e.g. a camera or a
dud missile) and be able to deploy that payload or use it on its six
week voyage. It must also be able to recharge its batteries or refeul
efficiently and expediantly.
Put bluntly, my problem is one of funding. I was hoping for my
university to fund me, but they are not sure that the investment is a
wise one. I do not want to burden my students with matters of
pedagogical solvency, nor do I want to foot the bill entirely by
myself. My question is, in the opinions of those who read this: What
price do you think such a device as I have here described can fetch on
say, eBay? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Herman Family
science forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 173
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:02 am Post subject:
Re: Request information about the sale price of a fully automated miniature submarine.
|
|
|
"Jon Baum" <brighteyedidealist@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1143765715.219730.11340@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Hello, my name is Jon Baum, and I am a Professor of Engineering at
an Arizona University. At the beginning of every year, I assign my
students a problem that has to be solved, a class project, if you like,
and at the end of each year, I take and frequently accept proposals
from the class of that year about what the next year's project should
be. One particularly intelligent student this year suggested that the
next year's class should have the problem of building a fully automated
submarine. I immediately seized upon the idea, as it presents numerous
challenges, as well as being quite interesting from an aesthetic
standpoint as well as an engineering one. The proposal was as follows
(paraphrased, and with minor adjustments by myself):
A competent and elegant solution must be reached for the
following problem:
Construction of a working submarine, not exceeding in length 50
centimeters, in height and width 15 centimeters. Said submarine must be
able to attain a depth 100 meters below the surface of a body of fresh
water. It also must be fully automated, requiring no direct control,
and capable of responding to stimulus competently. It must be seaworthy
enough to withstand with no repairs a vowage of six weeks, carry enough
sensory equipment to navigate, enough computing power to avoid
detection, and it must be able to carry a payload (e.g. a camera or a
dud missile) and be able to deploy that payload or use it on its six
week voyage. It must also be able to recharge its batteries or refeul
efficiently and expediantly.
Put bluntly, my problem is one of funding. I was hoping for my
university to fund me, but they are not sure that the investment is a
wise one. I do not want to burden my students with matters of
pedagogical solvency, nor do I want to foot the bill entirely by
myself. My question is, in the opinions of those who read this: What
price do you think such a device as I have here described can fetch on
say, eBay?
|
That's a tough one. It might get all of a few hundred dollars or a couple
thousand, depending on how it looked, what useful purpose it could do, etc.
If you geared it towards a particular purpose, eg exploring underwater
caves, or the search portion of search and rescue, or inspecting bridge
pilings, you could probably do a good bit better. In that case, the device
might easily be worth a great deal more.
There is a serious problem of how you are going to test out the devices.
Are you going to launch them in some private lake and hope that they all
come back to the dock in 6 weeks?
This sounds like something that would be fun to put on a TV show as an
intercollegiate competition.
Michael |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Smitty
science forum addict
Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 51
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:47 am Post subject:
Re: Request information about the sale price of a fully automated miniature submarine.
|
|
|
In article <1143765715.219730.11340@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Jon Baum" <brighteyedidealist@yahoo.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | Hello, my name is Jon Baum, and I am a Professor of Engineering at
an Arizona University. At the beginning of every year, I assign my
students a problem that has to be solved, a class project, if you like,
and at the end of each year, I take and frequently accept proposals
from the class of that year about what the next year's project should
be. One particularly intelligent student this year suggested that the
next year's class should have the problem of building a fully automated
submarine. I immediately seized upon the idea, as it presents numerous
challenges, as well as being quite interesting from an aesthetic
standpoint as well as an engineering one. The proposal was as follows
(paraphrased, and with minor adjustments by myself):
A competent and elegant solution must be reached for the
following problem:
Construction of a working submarine, not exceeding in length 50
centimeters, in height and width 15 centimeters. Said submarine must be
able to attain a depth 100 meters below the surface of a body of fresh
water. It also must be fully automated, requiring no direct control,
and capable of responding to stimulus competently. It must be seaworthy
enough to withstand with no repairs a vowage of six weeks, carry enough
sensory equipment to navigate, enough computing power to avoid
detection, and it must be able to carry a payload (e.g. a camera or a
dud missile) and be able to deploy that payload or use it on its six
week voyage. It must also be able to recharge its batteries or refeul
efficiently and expediantly.
Put bluntly, my problem is one of funding. I was hoping for my
university to fund me, but they are not sure that the investment is a
wise one. I do not want to burden my students with matters of
pedagogical solvency, nor do I want to foot the bill entirely by
myself. My question is, in the opinions of those who read this: What
price do you think such a device as I have here described can fetch on
say, eBay?
|
A number of years ago, Hammacher Schlemmer (1) featured, I believe on
the catalog cover, a real, full scale, one or perhaps two person
submarine. The price may have been in the 200k range, but I'm not sure.
They said that only one was available, and the lead time for ordering
was something like six months. I'm guessing at some details here,
because it was several years ago, as I said.
It seemed obvious to me that some group of backyard entrepreneur
engineers were fishing, and that the thing didn't exist, and wouldn't,
until someone ponied up the money.
So, you could try that approach, with an asking price of maybe 20k. Or,
give Dubya a jingle and tell him you'd like to develop a prototype
unmanned, self-sufficient submarine for warfare espionage and so on, to
help him with his dreams of total world domination, and ask him for 15
million to get the ball rolling.
Ebay? You could list it now, tell the story straight, delivery is in
fourteen months, see what you get. Put in a secret reserve price that
meets your needs. I'll kick it off at $1000 just for fun.
(1) The quintessential Beverly Hills gift gadget distributor. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Holt
science forum beginner
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 2
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:30 am Post subject:
Re: Request information about the sale price of a fully automated miniature submarine.
|
|
|
|
Have a look at www.psubs.org. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Moe_Larry_Curly
science forum beginner
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 1
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Request information about the sale price of a fully automated miniature submarine.
|
|
|
Other potential sources of funding that you may consider, in no particular
order:
=>Society of Manufacturing Engineers (they have a slush fund for Educational
Endowment & Funding)
=>possibly American Society of Mechanical Engineers & IEEE
=>DARPA or NSF
=>Probably your best bet would be localized solicitation of businesses
(especially system integrators) and vendors of industrial stuff. Lots of
times they will make donations of old but entirely suitable gear and also
cash for the P.R. it will bring. But you gotta do the P.R. thing to keep
them happy.
My SME chapter "sponsored" a couple of "engineering" competitions for high
school students like "toothpick bridge building". The schools loved it,
gave them something to do with the students. It took a bit of coordination
(advice: have consistent, enforceable rules) to make it successful. Final
competition was at a mall. We solicited businesses to "participate in the
education of the next generation of engineers" or some such. They threw
buckets of money and gear at us. Everybody jumped at the chance to get in
on the P.R. bandwagon "for the students".
I think you would be wasting your time on eBay.
And change your scope of project, since it's student project. Make the
vehicle maneuver a swimming pool (where are you gonna find something that's
100m deep....and be able to track the progress of such? And lastly, I heard
a story once about a guy presenting to his German colleagues. He was
describing his design in terms of centimeters. The colleague jumped up in
disgust and said "Carpenters use centimeters! Engineers use MILLIMETERS!"
Or so the story goes, but I hope you get the point.
I'm_Curly_Today
"Jon Baum" <brighteyedidealist@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1143765715.219730.11340@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Hello, my name is Jon Baum, and I am a Professor of Engineering at
an Arizona University. At the beginning of every year, I assign my
students a problem that has to be solved, a class project, if you like,
and at the end of each year, I take and frequently accept proposals
from the class of that year about what the next year's project should
be. One particularly intelligent student this year suggested that the
next year's class should have the problem of building a fully automated
submarine. I immediately seized upon the idea, as it presents numerous
challenges, as well as being quite interesting from an aesthetic
standpoint as well as an engineering one. The proposal was as follows
(paraphrased, and with minor adjustments by myself):
A competent and elegant solution must be reached for the
following problem:
Construction of a working submarine, not exceeding in length 50
centimeters, in height and width 15 centimeters. Said submarine must be
able to attain a depth 100 meters below the surface of a body of fresh
water. It also must be fully automated, requiring no direct control,
and capable of responding to stimulus competently. It must be seaworthy
enough to withstand with no repairs a vowage of six weeks, carry enough
sensory equipment to navigate, enough computing power to avoid
detection, and it must be able to carry a payload (e.g. a camera or a
dud missile) and be able to deploy that payload or use it on its six
week voyage. It must also be able to recharge its batteries or refeul
efficiently and expediantly.
Put bluntly, my problem is one of funding. I was hoping for my
university to fund me, but they are not sure that the investment is a
wise one. I do not want to burden my students with matters of
pedagogical solvency, nor do I want to foot the bill entirely by
myself. My question is, in the opinions of those who read this: What
price do you think such a device as I have here described can fetch on
say, eBay?
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
science forum Guru
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 2835
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject:
Re: Request information about the sale price of a fully automated miniature submarine.
|
|
|
Dear Jon Baum:
"Jon Baum" <brighteyedidealist@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1143765715.219730.11340@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
....
| Quote: | It also must be fully automated, requiring no direct control,
....
and it must be able to carry a payload (e.g. a camera or a
dud missile) and be able to deploy that payload or use it
on its six week voyage.
|
Ah, so an autonomous torpedo. They have tried this with
self-guided automobiles. And you want to add a third axis of
motion, remove the constraints on obstacles, and require it to
seek its own power. There are self-guided vacuum cleaners that
do part of this.
| Quote: | My question is, in the opinions of those who read this:
What price do you think such a device as I have here
described can fetch on say, eBay?
|
It would be prevented from availablity for sale, as a national
security threat.
David A. Smith |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
president@carbideprocesso
science forum beginner
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 4
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:28 pm Post subject:
Re: Request information about the sale price of a fully automated miniature submarine.
|
|
|
Inspection of oil rigs, fish finder,
What a thing sells for depends on what the buyer thinks it is worth.
Some industries pay a lot more for the same thing than others do. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Harry Andreas
science forum beginner
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 22
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject:
Re: Request information about the sale price of a fully automated miniature submarine.
|
|
|
In article <1143765715.219730.11340@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Jon
Baum" <brighteyedidealist@yahoo.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | It must be seaworthy
enough to withstand with no repairs a vowage of six weeks, carry enough
sensory equipment to navigate, enough computing power to avoid
detection,
|
AVOID DETECTION? That statement alone guarantees this is aimed at
a military or terrorist application.
I can think of no legitimate student justification for a requirement
to avoid detection.
--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Everett M. Greene
science forum beginner
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 32
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject:
Re: Request information about the sale price of a fully automated miniature submarine.
|
|
|
"Jon Baum" <brighteyedidealist@yahoo.ca> writes:
| Quote: | Hello, my name is Jon Baum, and I am a Professor of Engineering at
an Arizona University.
[snip]
Put bluntly, my problem is one of funding. I was hoping for my
university to fund me, but they are not sure that the investment is a
wise one. I do not want to burden my students with matters of
pedagogical solvency, nor do I want to foot the bill entirely by
myself. My question is, in the opinions of those who read this: What
price do you think such a device as I have here described can fetch on
say, eBay?
|
If this is a student project, why the concern about a sale
price (other than as a design parameter)?
As for funding, what about the TV channels (Learning,
Discovery, et al) that have programs about (re)building
things? The producers of that programming seems to be
able to get quite a bit of donated products, services,
etc.
I'd question the dive depth parameter specified. It's
fine to have it as a design parameter, but if you send
the vehicle to that depth and it doesn't come back,
recovery is going to be quite difficult, especially if
it's to be undetectable. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Greg Locock
science forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 111
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:39 pm Post subject:
Re: Request information about the sale price of a fully automated miniature submarine.
|
|
|
"Jon Baum" <brighteyedidealist@yahoo.ca> wrote in
news:1143765715.219730.11340@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
| Quote: | Hello, my name is Jon Baum, and I am a Professor of Engineering
at
an Arizona University. At the beginning of every year, I assign
my students a problem that has to be solved, a class project, if you
like, and at the end of each year, I take and frequently accept
proposals from the class of that year about what the next year's
project should be. One particularly intelligent student this year
suggested that the next year's class should have the problem of
building a fully automated submarine. I immediately seized upon the
idea, as it presents numerous challenges, as well as being quite
interesting from an aesthetic standpoint as well as an engineering
one. The proposal was as follows (paraphrased, and with minor
adjustments by myself):
A competent and elegant solution must be reached for the
following problem:
Construction of a working submarine, not exceeding in length 50
centimeters, in height and width 15 centimeters. Said submarine must
be able to attain a depth 100 meters below the surface of a body of
fresh water. It also must be fully automated, requiring no direct
control, and capable of responding to stimulus competently. It must be
seaworthy enough to withstand with no repairs a vowage of six weeks,
carry enough sensory equipment to navigate, enough computing power to
avoid detection, and it must be able to carry a payload (e.g. a camera
or a dud missile) and be able to deploy that payload or use it on its
six week voyage. It must also be able to recharge its batteries or
refeul efficiently and expediantly.
Put bluntly, my problem is one of funding. I was hoping for my
university to fund me, but they are not sure that the investment is a
wise one. I do not want to burden my students with matters of
pedagogical solvency, nor do I want to foot the bill entirely by
myself. My question is, in the opinions of those who read this: What
price do you think such a device as I have here described can fetch on
say, eBay?
|
Put bluntly that's such a lousy spec I am amazed that anyone takes it
seriously.
At least 100 thousand dollars as described. The spec is impossible for
any meaningful value of cruising speed, if it can return to the surface.
However if I were to cheat and say that the cruising speed is not
defined, and return to the surface is not required, you have just
described a stone with a camera on it and some means of aiming it, then
less than $1000. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Paul E. Bennett
science forum beginner
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 45
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Request information about the sale price of a fully automated miniature submarine.
|
|
|
Jon Baum wrote:
[%X]
| Quote: | One particularly intelligent student this year suggested that the
next year's class should have the problem of building a fully automated
submarine.
|
Take a look at <http://www.larwe.com/>. There is something on a submarine
project along the lines your students were thinking described there. The
site's owner is amenable to discussing his experiences on the project.
--
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett ....................<email://peb@amleth.demon.co.uk>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy .....<http://www.amleth.demon.co.uk/>
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
Tel: +44 (0)1235-811095
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
******************************************************************** |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
science forum Guru
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 2835
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:08 am Post subject:
Re: Request information about the sale price of a fully automated miniature submarine.
|
|
|
Dear president:
<president@carbideprocessors.com> wrote in message
news:1143822493.762596.233930@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Inspection of oil rigs, fish finder,
|
* for use in a body of fresh water
* no direct control
* no mention of communications capability
* voyage of six weeks
* able to navigate
* able to avoid detection
* carry and deploy a payload (with specific mention of a missle)
* self-refueling
It is intended for neither of your proposed uses.
David A. Smith |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brian Whatcott
science forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 267
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:40 am Post subject:
Re: Request information about the sale price of a fully automated miniature submarine.
|
|
|
On 30 Mar 2006 16:41:55 -0800, "Jon Baum"
<brighteyedidealist@yahoo.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | Hello, my name is Jon Baum, and I am a Professor of Engineering at
an Arizona University. At the beginning of every year, I assign my
students a problem that has to be solved, a class project, if you like,
and at the end of each year, I take and frequently accept proposals
from the class of that year about what the next year's project should
be. One particularly intelligent student this year suggested that the
next year's class should have the problem of building a fully automated
submarine. I immediately seized upon the idea, as it presents numerous
challenges, as well as being quite interesting from an aesthetic
standpoint as well as an engineering one. The proposal was as follows
(paraphrased, and with minor adjustments by myself):
A competent and elegant solution must be reached for the
following problem:
Construction of a working submarine, not exceeding in length 50
centimeters, in height and width 15 centimeters. Said submarine must be
able to attain a depth 100 meters below the surface of a body of fresh
water. It also must be fully automated, requiring no direct control,
and capable of responding to stimulus competently. It must be seaworthy
enough to withstand with no repairs a vowage of six weeks, carry enough
sensory equipment to navigate, enough computing power to avoid
detection, and it must be able to carry a payload (e.g. a camera or a
dud missile) and be able to deploy that payload or use it on its six
week voyage. It must also be able to recharge its batteries or refeul
efficiently and expediantly.
Put bluntly, my problem is one of funding. I was hoping for my
university to fund me, but they are not sure that the investment is a
wise one. I do not want to burden my students with matters of
pedagogical solvency, nor do I want to foot the bill entirely by
myself. My question is, in the opinions of those who read this: What
price do you think such a device as I have here described can fetch on
say, eBay?
|
$476
Brian Whatcott Altus OK |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brian Whatcott
science forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 267
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:05 am Post subject:
Re: Request information about the sale price of a fully automated miniature submarine.
|
|
|
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:59:39 -0800, andreas@computer.org (Harry
Andreas) wrote:
| Quote: | In article <1143765715.219730.11340@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Jon
Baum" <brighteyedidealist@yahoo.ca> wrote:
It must be seaworthy
enough to withstand with no repairs a vowage of six weeks, carry enough
sensory equipment to navigate, enough computing power to avoid
detection,
AVOID DETECTION? That statement alone guarantees this is aimed at
a military or terrorist application.
I can think of no legitimate student justification for a requirement
to avoid detection.
|
Here's one, at least.
"Ooh look, here's a shiny thing just sitting on the surface like a
submarine. Can I take it home Mom? Please, please?"
Brian Whatcott Altus OK |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Greg Locock
science forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 111
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:25 am Post subject:
Re: Request information about the sale price of a fully automated miniature submarine.
|
|
|
Brian Whatcott <betwys1@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:2etr229oalg2q648akcde7moqlkohei20j@4ax.com:
Torpedoes are faster and have a bigger payload, but this device has abilities way
beyond a torpedo in some respects. A torpedo runs about a million dollars a pop.
Cheers
Greg Locock |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Google
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
The time now is Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:39 pm | All times are GMT
|
|
Credit Counseling | Advertising | Loans | Neopets Cheats, Games and Neopoints | Grand Junction Real Estate
|
|
Copyright © 2004-2005 DeniX Solutions SRL
|
|
Other DeniX Solutions sites:
Electronics forum |
Medicine forum |
Unix/Linux blog |
Unix/Linux documentation |
Unix/Linux forums
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Forum index
»
Science and Technology
»
Engineering
