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Artificial Clouds Could Counter Global Warming
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Bret Cahill
science forum Guru


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 480

PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Artificial Clouds Could Counter Global Warming Reply with quote

Quote:
check out this site where there is a atmosphere section
which details the effects of man made areosols.Great
Graphics and observations !

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/

I live between a airport and a coal burning factory in the North
East.
Comtrails + CO2 emissions = high heat and humidity

Global warming by definition isn't something that changes local
conditions.


Bret Cahill
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orangecrush
science forum beginner


Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: Artificial Clouds Could Counter Global Warming Reply with quote

On 2 Apr 2006 11:43:33 -0700, "Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com>
wrote:

Quote:
The best way to study the effects of clouds on global warming is also
the most cost effective way to counter the problem: make some



check out this site where there is a atmosphere section
which details the effects of man made areosols.Great
Graphics and observations !

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/

I live between a airport and a coal burning factory in the North
East.
Comtrails + CO2 emissions = high heat and humidity
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Bret Cahill
science forum Guru


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 480

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: Artificial Clouds Could Counter Global Warming Reply with quote

< 40% of oil is converted into plastics and chemicals.

50% goes to gasoline and 8% to jet.

This leaves precious little for diesel, 6 oil, etc.


.. . .


<At $2.60 per gallon, in a car that gets 30 miles to the gallon,
<with a 15 gallon tank, it is not cost effective to drive 3 miles
<one-way to save $0.03 per gallon for a tankfull. You either need
< a bigger tank or a bigger savings.

Not to mention risks involved from left hand turns.

The entire executive branch is penney wise pound foolish.


Bret Cahill


You know what that thing does? It causes your SUV to go from getting
8.6 mpg to getting EIGHT POINT SIX F I V E miles per gallon. HA HA HA
HA HA.


-- Car Talk
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N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
science forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 2835

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:45 am    Post subject: Re: Artificial Clouds Could Counter Global Warming Reply with quote

Dear Bret Cahill:

"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1144641926.126512.143230@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Most U. S. adults burn 100 lbs/week of petroleum.

Few, however, buy 100 or even 10 lbs/week of plastic.

40% of oil is converted into plastics and chemicals. The balance
is burned, one way or another.

Quote:
The chemical industry could easily be supplied by
domestic wells.

Only if we stop burning it.

Quote:
A few months ago I read plastic grocery bags could
be recycled into premium motor oil.

.... and isn't. They have been toying with plastics that can be
made from starch.

A horribly small amount of plastic is actually recycled. The
resurfacing of roads with old tires (Hwy 60 for example) is one
big recycling project, and that is paid for when you buy a new
set of tires.

Consider this:

At $2.60 per gallon, in a car that gets 30 miles to the gallon,
with a 15 gallon tank, it is not cost effective to drive 3 miles
one-way to save $0.03 per gallon for a tankfull. You either need
a bigger tank or a bigger savings.

David A. Smith
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Bret Cahill
science forum Guru


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 480

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:05 am    Post subject: Re: Artificial Clouds Could Counter Global Warming Reply with quote

Most U. S. adults burn 100 lbs/week of petroleum.

Few, however, buy 100 or even 10 lbs/week of plastic.

The chemical industry could easily be supplied by domestic wells.

A few months ago I read plastic grocery bags could be recycled into
premium motor oil.


Bret Cahill
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N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
science forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 2835

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:33 am    Post subject: Re: Artificial Clouds Could Counter Global Warming Reply with quote

Dear Bret Cahill:

"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1144638572.375229.170460@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
I think our leaders are owned by Arab oil money

So does the former senator/governor of Florida,
Bob Graham, the most thoughtful reputable
public servant alive.

In any event, that "ownership" is even more
precarious than censorship based institutions in
the cheap info age.

I just don't see it lasting much longer.

Keep saying that. All your food packaging is made of plastic
(made from oil), or smelted using oil-based heat. It is
delivered in trucks, and shipped via rail or boat. All powered
by oil.

Aladdin, you are standing on a rug that is fraying out from
underneath you.

David A. Smith
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Bret Cahill
science forum Guru


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 480

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:09 am    Post subject: Re: Artificial Clouds Could Counter Global Warming Reply with quote

Quote:
I think our leaders are owned by Arab oil money

So does the former senator/governor of Florida, Bob Graham, the most
thoughtful reputable public servant alive.

In any event, that "ownership" is even more precarious than censorship
based institutions in the cheap info age.

I just don't see it lasting much longer.


Bret Cahill
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N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
science forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 2835

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Artificial Clouds Could Counter Global Warming Reply with quote

Dear Smitty Two:

"Smitty Two" <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:prestwhich-4E0B7B.10254409042006@news.west.cox.net...
Quote:
In article
1144396401.801186.68400@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
"Wynandt" <wynandtv@gmail.com> wrote:
....
So two things to close with:
- we'd have to "reverse" the damage caused by over
population to date (a sollution to which is what Brett
is proposing)
- make sure that it (over population and the damage
to the planet that comes with it) doesn't happen again

People do what their governments and media tell them
to do.

No they don't. Illegal drugs, illegal gambling are quite
rampant.

Quote:
"Poor" though it is, Mexico achieved ZPG some time ago,
because the government made it their top priority for more
than twenty years.

Our government has made unsustainable wealth and world
domination its goals, so that's what the people are focused
on while they breed like rabbits.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html
The population of the USA has been *slowly* climbing since at
least the 1970s. A portion of that is due to immigration (legal
and otherwise). The lion's share is due to the extension of life
allowed by affluence. That is the thing that is going to bring
down social security, assuming some flavor of influenza doesn't
preen the elderly down first.

Wealth is sustainable, even global wealth. You are dead on with
"world domination", but I think our leaders are owned by Arab oil
money, just as most of our (USA) coal is owned by Japan, and most
of our land by the Mafia (aka. insurance companies).

David A. Smith
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Smitty
science forum addict


Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Artificial Clouds Could Counter Global Warming Reply with quote

In article <1144396401.801186.68400@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
"Wynandt" <wynandtv@gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
While space colonization sounds like an appealing idea to many people,
i think that we would just sit with the same problem down the line,
we'd just have relocated it.

Population control sounds extreme and people who mention it are likely
to get stoned (with actual stones, not drugs Smile). But I'd have to say
that I agree. Interesting phenomenon is that "the poor" usually have
more children than the more affluent.

Population control? Which means like one child or two children per
couple. Extra taxes for breaking the rule? But what happens when people
get divorced? Then there is a new couple. Like Larry King, he'd be able
to have had a small clan by now (oh, gag me)

Could it be that population control is what AIDS is doing for us? Not
that I don't value human life, but it does make you think.

So two things to close with:
- we'd have to "reverse" the damage caused by over population to date
(a sollution to which is what Brett is proposing)
- make sure that it (over population and the damage to the planet that
comes with it) doesn't happen again

People do what their governments and media tell them to do. "Poor"
though it is, Mexico achieved ZPG some time ago, because the government
made it their top priority for more than twenty years.

Our government has made unsustainable wealth and world domination its
goals, so that's what the people are focused on while they breed like
rabbits.
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N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
science forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 2835

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Artificial Clouds Could Counter Global Warming Reply with quote

Dear Smitty Two:

"Smitty Two" <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:prestwhich-5176C6.10070109042006@news.west.cox.net...
Quote:
In article <d3FZf.689$XI6.16@trnddc05>, "Mavs" <mavs@gomav.com
wrote:

"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <N: dlzc1 D:cox T:net@nospam.com
wrote in
....
The problem is, if it is your child or your parent, it seems
"dire".

Perhaps but sinus infections will usually clear up on their
own and you will be much better for it.. your immunity
much stronger.

Unbeknownst to some, the real problem with antibiotics
is not their overuse and abuse in humans, but in livestock,
and farmed fish. We're dumping tons and tons of the stuff
out into the world at large, thereby breeding a world full of
tougher germs.

You are both wrong and right. Yes, antibiotics sprinkled heavily
in our "cohabitants" feed is a problem. But there are quite a
few problems being encounterd in wastewater treatment systems,
from cities, with similar chemicals being added to soaps, and
being passed out of our bodies. Wastewater treatment systems
depend on *biology* for most of what they do, before release to
waterways.

And the "gifts" just keep on giving...

David A. Smith
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Smitty
science forum addict


Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Artificial Clouds Could Counter Global Warming Reply with quote

In article <d3FZf.689$XI6.16@trnddc05>, "Mavs" <mavs@gomav.com> wrote:

Quote:
"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <N: dlzc1 D:cox T:net@nospam.com> wrote in
message news:XXEZf.23$AB3.20@fed1read02...
Dear Mavs:

The problem is, if it is your child or your parent, it seems "dire".

Perhaps but sinus infections will usually clear up on their own and you will
be much better for it.. your immunity much stronger.




Unbeknownst to some, the real problem with antibiotics is not their
overuse and abuse in humans, but in livestock, and farmed fish. We're
dumping tons and tons of the stuff out into the world at large, thereby
breeding a world full of tougher germs.
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Mavs
science forum beginner


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:17 am    Post subject: Re: Artificial Clouds Could Counter Global Warming Reply with quote

"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <N: dlzc1 D:cox T:net@nospam.com> wrote in
message news:XXEZf.23$AB3.20@fed1read02...
Quote:
Dear Mavs:

The problem is, if it is your child or your parent, it seems "dire".

Perhaps but sinus infections will usually clear up on their own and you will
be much better for it.. your immunity much stronger.



Quote:
My advice to global warming is let it run its course.
Use technology.

How? "Using technology" in the way we have been has got us here...

Clean transportation, planting foilage near areas that have been paved in
cement or usuing cool crete..etc...



Quote:
"Adapt or die." Don't rebuild New Orleans, move it inland or make it
float.

David A. Smith

adaptation with-in means.. the ocean levels are rising and here we are
building a city below sea level,
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N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
science forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 2835

PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:10 am    Post subject: Re: Artificial Clouds Could Counter Global Warming Reply with quote

Dear Mavs:

"Mavs" <mavs@gomav.com> wrote in message
news:otCZf.634$XI6.493@trnddc05...
Quote:
When people start patching things in nature, they only
make things worse. It's like anti-biotics.. At first they
were simply amazing... However we created a monster.
We over used them, we didn't use them in only dire
circumstances,

The problem is, if it is your child or your parent, it seems
"dire".

Quote:
and now we have resistant strains of bacteria that are speeding
up and the human body hasnt had time to
adapt to them.

And the organisms we borrowed the antibiotics from, are now left
to fend for themselves, without their protection.

Quote:
My advice to global warming is let it run its course.
Use technology.

How? "Using technology" in the way we have been has got us
here...

Quote:
If the air being clean like it was 500 years ago is so
bad then let it be...The earth is frantically trying to
heal itself.

Furthermore global dimming was taking place just 30
years ago... let the earth run its own course with out
man pissing on it.

"Adapt or die." Don't rebuild New Orleans, move it inland or
make it float.

David A. Smith
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Bret Cahill
science forum Guru


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 480

PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:50 am    Post subject: Re: Artificial Clouds Could Counter Global Warming Reply with quote

The Malthus book is now on display at the local university's
engineering library. I wonder if someone is dropping a hint.


Bret Cahill
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Mavs
science forum beginner


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Artificial Clouds Could Counter Global Warming Reply with quote

When people start patching things in nature, they only make things worse.
It's like anti-biotics.. At first they were simply amazing... However we
created a monster. We over used them, we didn't use them in only dire
circumstances, and now we have resistant strains of bacteria that are
speeding up and the human body hasnt had time to adapt to them.

My advice to global warming is let it run its course. Use technology. If the
air being clean like it was 500 years ago is so bad then let it be...The
earth is frantically trying to heal itself.

Furthermore global dimming was taking place just 30 years ago... let the
earth run its own course with out man pissing on it.


"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1144003413.589165.271970@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
The best way to study the effects of clouds on global warming is also
the most cost effective way to counter the problem: make some

The cheapest way to make various clouds is to suspend a big tube at
different elevations up to 50,000 feet by a balloon or airship and then
send high humidity warm air or low pressure steam up the tube and into
the sky.

The tube would need to be heated -- passive solar would be easy -- so
that the vapor doesn't condense on the way up. Water vapor is lighter
than air so the system might be entirely passive. Only a slight
pressure would be necessary to keep the tube inflated.

If the clouds are determined to be effective at 10 to 15 K feet then
maybe permanent communications tower style structures could be built.

Otherwise the balloon/blimp system could be deployed whenever
conditions permit. It might be cheaper to have a lot of balloons being
raised every other day than a few permanent structures operating every
day.

Airline safety wouldn't be a problem either. Bin Laden could fly an
airliner right through the cheap flimsey tube -- which could be easily
repaired -- but nothing would happen to the plane.

Steam or high humidity air could come from power plant condensors.

It is easy to size the tube for a contrail sized cloud: Jets use 2 lbs
water for each pound of jet fuel so if a jet burns 10,000 lbs/hour fuel
then we'll need to send 10 tons of steam/hr up the tube for the same
size cloud.

They should do this in the desert in the summer even if global warming
wasn't a problem. The amount of electricity Phoenix would save in ac
would pay for the system in a few weeks

Add in the trillions in damage to every port city area in the world
going under 20' of water when the Greenland ice sheet melts in a few
years and nothing is more cost effective.


Bret Cahill
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