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Forum index » Science and Technology » Chem » Electrochem
Presure and Current in Elektrolyt
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Dejan
science forum beginner


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: Presure and Current in Elektrolyt Reply with quote

Hi,
to eliminate the influences of pump-electronic, I've pushed the
solution through the hose with a syringe, manual and a few strokes in
both directions with same results.
I've started to belive, that the friction of solution (or the friction
of syringe) produces a electrostatic charge. This charge produces again
a EM-field through the puls-flow. I have no better explication.

Dejan
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Two_Fishes
science forum beginner


Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:39 am    Post subject: Re: Presure and Current in Elektrolyt Reply with quote

"Dejan" <Dejann@aol.com> wrote in news:1145946657.297447.231990
@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Quote:
Hi,
well, I've measured with high impedanz oscilloscope, but I'm sure
about
the correlation between that signal and puls-movements of solution.

Dejan


There are many weak magnetic fields present in any laboratory that has
electric wiring. If you're using a solenoid to pump the electrolyte
in pulses you could be picking up its magnetism. To test how well
you've shielded your voltage probe try pumping a non-conductive
solution such as pure distilled water or methylene chloride and see if
you still get positive results.

Just a suggestion!
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Dieter Britz
science forum beginner


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: Presure and Current in Elektrolyt Reply with quote

Dejan wrote:

Quote:
Hi,
well, I've measured with high impedanz oscilloscope, but I'm sure about
the correlation between that signal and puls-movements of solution.

Millivolts is too big, so I suspect you have cross talk
from the switching circuit.

--
Dieter Britz, Kemisk Institut, Aarhus Universitet
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Dejan
science forum beginner


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: Presure and Current in Elektrolyt Reply with quote

Hi,
well, I've measured with high impedanz oscilloscope, but I'm sure about
the correlation between that signal and puls-movements of solution.

Dejan
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Lasse Murtomäki
science forum beginner


Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:02 am    Post subject: Re: Presure and Current in Elektrolyt Reply with quote

Please do not feel offended, but do you measure the voltage with a high
input impedance voltmeter, or even with the compensation method? A couple of
millivolts can be due to almost anything if the measurement is not carried
out properly.

--
Lasse Murtomäki
Helsinki Univ. Tech.
Lab.Phys.Chem.Electrochem.
lasse.murtomaki@tkk.fi
"Dejan" <Dejann@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1145903719.995900.24300@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Hi,
I've measured a few millivolts, but very noisy so I'm not sure about
accurate value. That with earth M-field sounds reasonably, one of my
colleague (physicist) has supposed the same thing.
Dejan
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Dejan
science forum beginner


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Presure and Current in Elektrolyt Reply with quote

Hi,
I've measured a few millivolts, but very noisy so I'm not sure about
accurate value. That with earth M-field sounds reasonably, one of my
colleague (physicist) has supposed the same thing.
Dejan
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Dieter Britz
science forum beginner


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: Presure and Current in Elektrolyt Reply with quote

Ed Ferris <none> wrote:

Quote:
I have no idea what "measuring voltage with an oscilloscope probe" is,
but I have very little experience in such experiments. In general, when
you get results contrary to theory you should look for artifacts, such
as your pulse of solution moving the probe into contact with ground or
some other conductive part. But I'm not competent to criticize.

A moving conductor (which an electrolyte is) will induce a
voltage across a magnetic field. This is used in flow meters
made by a Danish company. The voltages are rather small, but
they are there. How big were the voltages you have detected?
You do have the Earth's magnetic field, but I would expect at
most microvolts.
--
Dieter Britz, Kemisk Institut, Aarhus Universitet
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Two_Fishes
science forum beginner


Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Presure and Current in Elektrolyt Reply with quote

I have no idea what "measuring voltage with an oscilloscope probe" is,
but I have very little experience in such experiments. In general, when
you get results contrary to theory you should look for artifacts, such
as your pulse of solution moving the probe into contact with ground or
some other conductive part. But I'm not competent to criticize.
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Dejan
science forum beginner


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: Presure and Current in Elektrolyt Reply with quote

Quote:
If you've got a Maxwell's demon who will separate the cations from the
anions, yes. Moving ion pairs is not going to generate any
electricity.

Hi,
that was my assumption also, but I cutted a hose and placed a ring
electrode to connect that hose, pump and ring to the circle again. Now
I can measure some voltage wit oscilloscope probe to the ring.
The signal I've seen correlated with movements of the Solution. Isn't
it a electroinduction?

Dejan
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Two_Fishes
science forum beginner


Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:51 am    Post subject: Re: Presure and Current in Elektrolyt Reply with quote

"Dejan" <Dejann@aol.com> wrote in news:1145685465.408601.97210
@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Quote:
Is it possible to measure an Electromagnetic field near one hose
with
NaCl Solution (electrolyte), if I pump that solution in circle with
one
pulse-pump (puls presure).
I mean, there is pulse movement of ions in that hose, so that
movement
should cause something similar as a electro-current, or am I wrong
about that?

Thanks,
Dejan



If you've got a Maxwell's demon who will separate the cations from the
anions, yes. Moving ion pairs is not going to generate any
electricity.
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Two_Fishes
science forum beginner


Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:50 am    Post subject: Re: Presure and Current in Elektrolyt Reply with quote

"Dejan" <Dejann@aol.com> wrote in
news:1145685465.408601.97210@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Quote:
Is it possible to measure an Electromagnetic field near one hose
with
NaCl Solution (electrolyte), if I pump that solution in circle with
one pulse-pump (puls presure).
I mean, there is pulse movement of ions in that hose, so that
movement
should cause something similar as a electro-current, or am I wrong
about that?

Thanks,
Dejan



If you've got a Maxwell's demon who will separate the cations from the
anions for you, yes. Otherwise not.
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Dejan
science forum beginner


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:57 am    Post subject: Presure and Current in Elektrolyt Reply with quote

Is it possible to measure an Electromagnetic field near one hose with
NaCl Solution (electrolyte), if I pump that solution in circle with one
pulse-pump (puls presure).
I mean, there is pulse movement of ions in that hose, so that movement
should cause something similar as a electro-current, or am I wrong
about that?

Thanks,
Dejan
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