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Message |
Guest
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 Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:04 pm Post subject:
computers have only 1/2 life of my Toyota pickup
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It was year 1999 I bought my Toyota pickup and today it has about
43,000 miles on its gauge. And today I was forced to renovate my
computers bringing all of them up to about 60 Gb harddrive, one with
100 Gb and another with 120 Gb. Amazing that they only put 3 to 6 Gb in
them in year 2000. And I had to upgrade the RAM memory chip to that of
at least 256 Mb and one of them 1 G.
What I am saying overall is that from 1999 my Toyota has been so great,
so reliable, and not in any need of fixing or repair, yet my computers
were on the verge of falling into obsoleteness. Back in 1999 and 2000 I
would have never guessed in this wide blue world of ours that my Toyota
would be of a greater engineering standard and have no cause to devote
any of my time or energy to fixing it whereas my computers have come to
the end ledge of falling off into obsoleteness.
In fact, when I bought one of those computers in year 2000 I was
annoyed and frustrated that the computer companies did not make a cable
that you plug one computer into another and with the click can transfer
files and in a few seconds have copied all those files. How silly it
was in 2000 to have little or no connectivity from one computer to
another and that in those 5 years I had to email myself piecemeal one
file after another in order to backup my archiving and storing files.
But now I see where Apple with its "fire-wire" achieves that
interconnectedness.
So it is worthwhile and meaningful to me to upgrade these computers and
save them from obsoleteness because of this firewire capability.
However, one of my old computers did not have the firewire port and
thus I relegate that machine to merely surfing the web or email.
Another thing that is generating this obsoleteness is not due to new
technology that is needed or wanted but rather for the computer
industry to force and cause people to unnecessarily have to buy and pay
for new software and new hardware. Like the old days in the auto
industry that they planned obsoleteness in that the car would fall
apart after 4 or 5 years and force the consumer to buy a new car.
Computer companies, Be Ware, because us consumers do not like to pay
for new software or hardware that is totally good just because every 5
years the companies want to try to force there earlier products as
obsolete. We, consumers can rightfully sense when a product lifespam is
being tinkered with just to keep companies fat with income.
Granted that between 2000 and 2005 the issue of Security for computers
is a valid and legitimate reason to force upgrades.
But, we have a parallel gauge of the auto industry with the computer
industry and it should not be the case that my Toyota pickup would
outlast all computers by a factor of 2 times or 3 times or 4 times with
no change and no fixing maintenance.
Also, computer companies are not aware that most consumers like to have
a pattern of doing work on there computers that is unbroken for a long
period of time and no changes even in format. And it seems as though
every other month, many software companies do changes which upsets
greatly those that had been used to the old format. I become angry when
I see my old pathes on the computer being replaced with new things that
work less efficiently and were changed only because some computer
company and or advertiser is thinking that the change will fatten their
pocketbooks.
So computer companies should keep an eye on the auto industry, in that
we, or us, consumers can smell a dead rat in the works. That we can see
our Toyota running smoothly without ever any fixing or changing for
more than 5 years and so why should computers have this constant
upheaval of jerking and wrenching changes when the consumer wants a bit
of stability and dependability for more than 5 years and not become
obsolete.
Especially considering that a Toyota for the past 5 years has done
brutal hard work in harsh environment whereas my computers sit in a
bedroom all pampered and air-conditioned environment.
Ridiculous that the Toyota will not need any major upgrade for 10 years
yet computer companies are striving to churn and force consumers to
change software and hardware in less than 5 years.
Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:11 pm Post subject:
Re: computers have only 1/2 life of my Toyota pickup
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In fact, in the shop where I had the computers upgraded, one of the
salesmen said to me "don't you have a back-up, like a CD disk or DVD
burned disc"
My reply was simple. My computers are my backup. In other words I have
multi computers where the important folders and files are archived on
the hard drive.
Why bother burning a DVD disk for back-up or archiving when it is
easier to simply use a computer as the archive.
Archimedes Plutonium |
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Robert Kolker
science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 1756
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:27 pm Post subject:
Re: computers have only 1/2 life of my Toyota pickup
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a_plutonium@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | It was year 1999 I bought my Toyota pickup and today it has about
43,000 miles on its gauge. And today I was forced to renovate my
computers bringing all of them up to about 60 Gb harddrive, one with
100 Gb and another with 120 Gb. Amazing that they only put 3 to 6 Gb in
them in year 2000. And I had to upgrade the RAM memory chip to that of
at least 256 Mb and one of them 1 G.
What I am saying overall is that from 1999 my Toyota has been so great,
so reliable, and not in any need of fixing or repair, yet my computers
were on the verge of falling into obsoleteness. Back in 1999 and 2000 I
would have never guessed in this wide blue world of ours that my Toyota
would be of a greater engineering standard and have no cause to devote
any of my time or energy to fixing it whereas my computers have come to
the end ledge of falling off into obsoleteness.
In fact, when I bought one of those computers in year 2000 I was
annoyed and frustrated that the computer companies did not make a cable
that you plug one computer into another and with the click can transfer
files and in a few seconds have copied all those files. How silly it
was in 2000 to have little or no connectivity from one computer to
another and that in those 5 years I had to email myself piecemeal one
file after another in order to backup my archiving and storing files.
But now I see where Apple with its "fire-wire" achieves that
interconnectedness.
So it is worthwhile and meaningful to me to upgrade these computers and
save them from obsoleteness because of this firewire capability.
However, one of my old computers did not have the firewire port and
thus I relegate that machine to merely surfing the web or email.
Another thing that is generating this obsoleteness is not due to new
technology that is needed or wanted but rather for the computer
industry to force and cause people to unnecessarily have to buy and pay
for new software and new hardware. Like the old days in the auto
industry that they planned obsoleteness in that the car would fall
apart after 4 or 5 years and force the consumer to buy a new car.
Computer companies, Be Ware, because us consumers do not like to pay
for new software or hardware that is totally good just because every 5
years the companies want to try to force there earlier products as
obsolete. We, consumers can rightfully sense when a product lifespam is
being tinkered with just to keep companies fat with income.
Granted that between 2000 and 2005 the issue of Security for computers
is a valid and legitimate reason to force upgrades.
But, we have a parallel gauge of the auto industry with the computer
industry and it should not be the case that my Toyota pickup would
outlast all computers by a factor of 2 times or 3 times or 4 times with
no change and no fixing maintenance.
Also, computer companies are not aware that most consumers like to have
a pattern of doing work on there computers that is unbroken for a long
period of time and no changes even in format. And it seems as though
every other month, many software companies do changes which upsets
greatly those that had been used to the old format. I become angry when
I see my old pathes on the computer being replaced with new things that
work less efficiently and were changed only because some computer
company and or advertiser is thinking that the change will fatten their
pocketbooks.
So computer companies should keep an eye on the auto industry, in that
we, or us, consumers can smell a dead rat in the works. That we can see
our Toyota running smoothly without ever any fixing or changing for
more than 5 years and so why should computers have this constant
upheaval of jerking and wrenching changes when the consumer wants a bit
of stability and dependability for more than 5 years and not become
obsolete.
Especially considering that a Toyota for the past 5 years has done
brutal hard work in harsh environment whereas my computers sit in a
bedroom all pampered and air-conditioned environment.
Ridiculous that the Toyota will not need any major upgrade for 10 years
yet computer companies are striving to churn and force consumers to
change software and hardware in less than 5 years.
Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
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Robert Kolker
science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 1756
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:29 pm Post subject:
Re: computers have only 1/2 life of my Toyota pickup
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a_plutonium@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: |
Ridiculous that the Toyota will not need any major upgrade for 10 years
yet computer companies are striving to churn and force consumers to
change software and hardware in less than 5 years.
|
Computers can be had for under $1000 and if last 3-5 years that comes
out to $300 year. What does your Toyota cost per year of useful life?
Computers are low cost appliances. You pickup truck is a major item.
Bob Kolker |
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Ian Stirling
science forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:47 pm Post subject:
Re: computers have only 1/2 life of my Toyota pickup
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In sci.physics a_plutonium@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | In fact, in the shop where I had the computers upgraded, one of the
salesmen said to me "don't you have a back-up, like a CD disk or DVD
burned disc"
My reply was simple. My computers are my backup. In other words I have
multi computers where the important folders and files are archived on
the hard drive.
Why bother burning a DVD disk for back-up or archiving when it is
easier to simply use a computer as the archive.
|
In case the souleless minions of orthodoxy come and burn down your house? |
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CWatters
science forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:27 pm Post subject:
Re: computers have only 1/2 life of my Toyota pickup
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<a_plutonium@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118509490.624193.220540@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | It was year 1999 I bought my Toyota pickup and today it has about
43,000 miles on its gauge. And today I was forced
|
Forced? No you wern't. The computer you purchased in 2000 will still run the
same programs that were available in 2000 just as well IF you maintained it
correctly that is. I have a Windows 98 PC that still works just as well as
the day I built it.
Over the same period many businesses have also outgrown their Toyota pickup
and been "forced" to buy great big trucks because they want/need/expect more
capabilities.
| Quote: | In fact, when I bought one of those computers in year 2000 I was
annoyed and frustrated that the computer companies did not make a cable
that you plug one computer into another and with the click can transfer
files and in a few seconds have copied all those files.
|
They did. You had at least two choices - Laplink (which used the parallel
port) and 10mbit networks (that are still used today)
| Quote: | Another thing that is generating this obsoleteness is not due to new
technology that is needed or wanted but rather for the computer
industry to force and cause people to unnecessarily have to buy and pay
for new software and new hardware.
|
Well it's hard to get parts for some old cars as well you know.
| Quote: | But, we have a parallel gauge of the auto industry with the computer
industry and it should not be the case that my Toyota pickup would
outlast all computers by a factor of 2 times or 3 times or 4 times with
no change and no fixing maintenance.
|
and Toyotas would double their mpg every two years? |
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Lefty
science forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:29 pm Post subject:
Re: computers have only 1/2 life of my Toyota pickup
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| Quote: | Ridiculous that the Toyota will not need any major upgrade for 10 years
yet computer companies are striving to churn and force consumers to
change software and hardware in less than 5 years.
Computers can be had for under $1000 and if last 3-5 years that comes
out to $300 year. What does your Toyota cost per year of useful life?
Computers are low cost appliances. You pickup truck is a major item.
Bob Kolker
|
Toyota makes an excellent engine. I sincerely hope that they keep making
high quality engines - if you ever work on one, you will see that it's a
work of art.
Keep changing the oil religiously and you can probably get 300K miles.
I have noticed one thing thought, the sensors and onboard diagnostics have a
tremendous influence on engine performance. A loose gas cap will trigger the
"check engine" light, and connections around the air intake must be good and
snug otherwise the whole fuel air mix can get messed up and the engine will
not operate properly. Nothing ever goes wrong with Toyota engines. If your
mechanic gives you a stupid quote, just make sure all the sensors are clean,
and you can turn off the check engine light by disconnecting battery cable
for 2 minutes, do not use Bosch Platinum plugs, and it will run just fine. A
little dirt on the mass airflow sensor can cost you $500 - and the mechanic
is just going to clean it with a q-tip anyway.
Changing the brakes on any Japanese car is really quite easy - compared to
US cars which are a pain in the ass. Almost all maintenance is easier. |
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jgreenfield@seol.net.au
science forum Guru
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 494
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:03 am Post subject:
Re: computers have only 1/2 life of my Toyota pickup
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"The amount of junk one aquires is directly proportional to the size of
the shed"
Jim G
c'=c+v |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:13 am Post subject:
Re: computers have only 1/2 life of my Toyota pickup
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Now I should be able to work out a mathematical formula that derives a
timetable for when a new computer is needed and when a new computer is
a sham forcing of the public to force their old computers into obsolete
and thus just enriching the computer companies. Work this formula out
by using the parallel industry of automobiles.
And what ends up happening to auto companies who plan forced
obsoleteness in their products in order to keep the customers paying
more often for their cars, is that these companies eventually fade out
of existence. Quality endures but planned obsoleteness to increase the
frequency of new purchases makes that company obsolete itself.
Many times walking through the corridors and halls of my home I
muttered that GM and Ford were going to hit the skids because in 2000
and 2001 and 2002 and 2003 and 2004 and 2005 they were focused on
building gas guzzlers of SUVs when the price of oil kept soaring. There
was even the pathetic moment of building the Hummer, that muscle car or
1/2 tank modeled after the Iraq war, was produced by those who are now
hurting.
While Toyota quietly focused on building cars that save on petrol.
The moral of this story is that GM and Ford are in a world of hurt.
They are losing market share to Toyota and others because from
2000-2005 they built vehicles that were disconnected to the reality of
petrol price rises. I remember the gasoline crunch of the 1980s where
people were giving away gas gusslers or asking $50 for their Cadillac
guzzler. So is every SUV now only worth about $50 and will there be a
stampede to get rid of SUVs.
By paralleling the auto industry with the computer industry I should be
able to get a formula that gives a "interval of time" for which a
computer and its software has a meaningful economic lifespan. And is
not governed by computer companies trying to increase the frequency of
new purchases.
So, if a Toyota pickup, bought brand new and can last for 10 years at
minimum without any major overhaul, and because this Toyota depends on
the computer industry for the monitoring chips in the engine. That
given this parallelism, then all computers sold today should last 10
years without ever needing any upgrade or overhaul. And if the computer
and its software do not have that 10 year minimum is an indication that
the computer companies are bilking the general public, much like what
old car companies bilked customers with their shoddy designs that
planned obsoleteness to increase frequency of purchase.
So if Microsoft intends to come out every 3 years or 5 years with a new
software when the public does not need it and the public wants a 10
years of "no changes" is much like the pattern of the many old car
companies that disappeared. Instead of buying a new Microsoft every 5
years, many people will switch to say FireFox or Linus where they can
count of 10 years of no changes and no disruption to their routine that
they have wanted.
People can smell out a company that forces customers to come back
frequently and have to buy new products. Smell a rat in that the
planned obsolescence by computer companies with new products that are
not significantly different and useful from their old products.
So just as Toyota is increasing market share while GM and Ford are
falling, a similar pattern will emerge in the computer industry where
those that try to force the public to have to shell out and dole out
money every 5 years for their computer will lose market share to those
that can deliver a computer and software where there is no changes for
at least 10 years.
The rate of overhaul and upgrade in cars should be the same rate for
new computers and its software. And a divergence indicates more of how
the computer companies are bilking the general public.
I would like to have sent this post to sci.econ but the new software
does not allow it whereas the old software allowed me to do that.
Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
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richard miller
science forum addict
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:53 pm Post subject:
Re: computers have only 1/2 life of my Toyota pickup
|
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|
<a_plutonium@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118509490.624193.220540@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | It was year 1999 I bought my Toyota pickup and today it has about
43,000 miles on its gauge. And today I was forced to renovate my
computers bringing all of them up to about 60 Gb harddrive, one with
100 Gb and another with 120 Gb. Amazing that they only put 3 to 6 Gb in
them in year 2000. And I had to upgrade the RAM memory chip to that of
at least 256 Mb and one of them 1 G.
What I am saying overall is that from 1999 my Toyota has been so great,
so reliable, and not in any need of fixing or repair, yet my computers
were on the verge of falling into obsoleteness. Back in 1999 and 2000 I
would have never guessed in this wide blue world of ours that my Toyota
would be of a greater engineering standard and have no cause to devote
any of my time or energy to fixing it whereas my computers have come to
the end ledge of falling off into obsoleteness.
|
Dear AP
There is a very big rant here:
the standards of computers and software bear no relation to rationality.
I have a stereo that worked and worked for 25 years, much to my annoyance.
If I put in a different record, it doesn't ask me to upgrade, it doesn't
trigger a processor fault. They told me CDs wouldn't suffer from dust or
surface detritus. Cobblers : they are worse; with a speck of dust a CD
turns into a disco mix with auto-repeat; my vinyl just sniffs a bit, and
keeps playing.
Engineering standards have regressed; of that there is no doubt.
But lastly, as a very big rant.
We were taught to write a simple 'console' (DOS 25x80 window to you and me)
program to do anything. Math was a breeze with programming in QBasic, C,
Fortran. But that wasn't good enough, it was all too simple. F**K that, lets
bring in visual programming....
Suppose I have unknowns A and B, I want to add them. All I have is NT, no
QBasic (they took that off), no Excel, no compilers. Who do I turn to?
(yeah, I know, you say Linux),.
ranting becomes tiresome
RJM |
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deowll
science forum beginner
Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: computers have only 1/2 life of my Toyota pickup
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|
"richard miller" <richard@microscitech.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d8i7bh$n8a$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
| Quote: |
a_plutonium@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118509490.624193.220540@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
It was year 1999 I bought my Toyota pickup and today it has about
43,000 miles on its gauge. And today I was forced to renovate my
computers bringing all of them up to about 60 Gb harddrive, one with
100 Gb and another with 120 Gb. Amazing that they only put 3 to 6 Gb in
them in year 2000. And I had to upgrade the RAM memory chip to that of
at least 256 Mb and one of them 1 G.
What I am saying overall is that from 1999 my Toyota has been so great,
so reliable, and not in any need of fixing or repair, yet my computers
were on the verge of falling into obsoleteness. Back in 1999 and 2000 I
would have never guessed in this wide blue world of ours that my Toyota
would be of a greater engineering standard and have no cause to devote
any of my time or energy to fixing it whereas my computers have come to
the end ledge of falling off into obsoleteness.
Dear AP
There is a very big rant here:
the standards of computers and software bear no relation to rationality.
I have a stereo that worked and worked for 25 years, much to my
annoyance.
If I put in a different record, it doesn't ask me to upgrade, it doesn't
trigger a processor fault. They told me CDs wouldn't suffer from dust or
surface detritus. Cobblers : they are worse; with a speck of dust a CD
turns into a disco mix with auto-repeat; my vinyl just sniffs a bit, and
keeps playing.
Engineering standards have regressed; of that there is no doubt.
But lastly, as a very big rant.
We were taught to write a simple 'console' (DOS 25x80 window to you and
me)
program to do anything. Math was a breeze with programming in QBasic, C,
Fortran. But that wasn't good enough, it was all too simple. F**K that,
lets
bring in visual programming....
Suppose I have unknowns A and B, I want to add them. All I have is NT, no
QBasic (they took that off), no Excel, no compilers. Who do I turn to?
(yeah, I know, you say Linux),.
ranting becomes tiresome
RJM
|
I have a friend who is still using some of the apple two computers that were
bought about 1982. How old is your pickup? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:10 am Post subject:
Re: computers have only 1/2 life of my Toyota pickup
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That is a lousy comparison and illogical. I can counter by saying there
is someone still using a Toyota bought in 1970 (if Toyota made vehicles
then). Apple 2 computers of 1982 can not do online banking and cannot
do most modern functions due to security, and is so limited as to what
it can do that it is a useless antique as regards to functioning.
Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
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| Back to top |
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James Toupin
science forum addict
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:18 am Post subject:
Re: computers have only 1/2 life of my Toyota pickup
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Hell, now days with the speed of technological innovation, the 1/2 life of a
new, top-of-the -line computer is about 6 months. they are certainly usable
far beyond that point, especially if you continue to update your BIOS and
software frequently, but they will be nowhere near the "top-of-the-line"
anymore.
James
"deowll" <deowll@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:81eJe.8652$%X1.4323@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
| Quote: |
"richard miller" <richard@microscitech.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d8i7bh$n8a$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
a_plutonium@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118509490.624193.220540@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
It was year 1999 I bought my Toyota pickup and today it has about
43,000 miles on its gauge. And today I was forced to renovate my
computers bringing all of them up to about 60 Gb harddrive, one with
100 Gb and another with 120 Gb. Amazing that they only put 3 to 6 Gb in
them in year 2000. And I had to upgrade the RAM memory chip to that of
at least 256 Mb and one of them 1 G.
What I am saying overall is that from 1999 my Toyota has been so great,
so reliable, and not in any need of fixing or repair, yet my computers
were on the verge of falling into obsoleteness. Back in 1999 and 2000 I
would have never guessed in this wide blue world of ours that my Toyota
would be of a greater engineering standard and have no cause to devote
any of my time or energy to fixing it whereas my computers have come to
the end ledge of falling off into obsoleteness.
Dear AP
There is a very big rant here:
the standards of computers and software bear no relation to rationality.
I have a stereo that worked and worked for 25 years, much to my
annoyance.
If I put in a different record, it doesn't ask me to upgrade, it doesn't
trigger a processor fault. They told me CDs wouldn't suffer from dust or
surface detritus. Cobblers : they are worse; with a speck of dust a CD
turns into a disco mix with auto-repeat; my vinyl just sniffs a bit, and
keeps playing.
Engineering standards have regressed; of that there is no doubt.
But lastly, as a very big rant.
We were taught to write a simple 'console' (DOS 25x80 window to you and
me)
program to do anything. Math was a breeze with programming in QBasic, C,
Fortran. But that wasn't good enough, it was all too simple. F**K that,
lets
bring in visual programming....
Suppose I have unknowns A and B, I want to add them. All I have is NT, no
QBasic (they took that off), no Excel, no compilers. Who do I turn to?
(yeah, I know, you say Linux),.
ranting becomes tiresome
RJM
I have a friend who is still using some of the apple two computers that
were bought about 1982. How old is your pickup?
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Edward Green
science forum addict
Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:53 am Post subject:
Re: computers have only 1/2 life of my Toyota pickup
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a_plutonium@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | That is a lousy comparison and illogical. I can counter by saying there
is someone still using a Toyota bought in 1970 (if Toyota made vehicles
then). Apple 2 computers of 1982 can not do online banking and cannot
do most modern functions due to security, and is so limited as to what
it can do that it is a useless antique as regards to functioning.
|
Right. Well, when you say "life" in the title of this thread, there
are two possibilities. I took it at first you meant "functioning", but
you may also mean "not obsolete". A functioning computer becomes
obsolete because you decide that some functions of new computers are
essential to your utility profile of "computer".
Computers become obsolete far faster than cars because, of course, they
are still somewhere in the middle of the logistics curve, whereas cars
are well into the asymptote, and only improving marginally in
functionality. I'm writing on a computer of the same vintage as your
Toyota, BTW (1999). |
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Matthew Lybanon
science forum beginner
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject:
Re: computers have only 1/2 life of my Toyota pickup
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Let's add the following web site to the discussion. Enjoy!
http://aurejac.dyndns.org/ |
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Google
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