FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   PreferencesPreferences   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Forum index » Science and Technology » Chem
A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 2 [18 Posts] View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page:  1, 2 Next
Author Message
Bret Cahill
science forum Guru


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 480

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM Reply with quote

It's pretty sad when the federal government underfunds MIT to develop a
strategic metal.

< So far, though, Sadoway and colleagues have made only a

< few grams with an experimental reactor cell. It's hard

< for the small, ceramic device to sustain the high

< temperature needed. Avanti is hoping to raise enough

< money from investors to build a larger prototype to

< actually produce a pool of liquid titanium.


Bret Cahill
Back to top
are we on same page?
science forum beginner


Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM Reply with quote

just what we needed - cheaper golf clubs.
now the backward castes in india can play golf too without needing quota on
the golf course.


<usenet@mantra.comy7TKNF or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)> wrote in
message news:20060608C0bkBy7TKNFG0qVZks8I7Tc@Y6406...
Quote:
A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM

Forwarded message

A Cleaner, Cheaper Route to Titanium

Using technology developed at MIT, 4-person startup
Avanti Metal hopes to reduce the cost of producing
Titanium from the current $40 per pound to a mere $3. The
article discusses how a special combinations of oxides
and electrolysis separates the titanium metal from the
Earth's abundant titanium oxide ore."

A Cleaner, Cheaper Route to Titanium

An MIT startup is hoping to make titanium much more
affordable. The benefit: lighter, more fuel-efficient
planes.

By Neil Savage

Titanium is as strong as steel, but weighs only about 60
percent as much. It's also highly resistant to corrosion,
and handles temperature extremes well. So, not
surprisingly, the aerospace industry wants to use much
more of it in the next generation of planes, making them
lighter and reducing fuel costs.

But there's a hitch: at around $40 per pound today,
titanium is expensive -- and the price keeps going up.

Now a startup, Avanti Metal, using technology developed
at MIT, hopes to commercialize a process that drastically
reduces the cost of producing titanium, making more of it
available for large, lighter-weight airplanes. The
process, developed by MIT chemist Donald Sadoway, applies
an environmentally benign, direct electrolysis method to
make the metal.

Titanium is naturally abundant. But processing titanium
oxide found in the ground to make a usable metal is slow
and produces toxic waste. "The price of titanium has gone
through the roof," says Corby Anderson, director of the
Center for Advanced Mineral and Metallurgical Processing
at the University of Montana. "It's double what it was
this time last year -- and last year it was pretty high."

Jeffrey Sabados, president of the four-person Avanti,
estimates that, based on production plans published by
Boeing and Airbus, there'll be a 30,000-ton shortage of
titanium by 2010. He claims that Avanti's process for
refining titanium could slash costs to about $3 per
pound. Then, if the metal then sells for even $25 per
pound, an estimate he calls conservative, it's a huge
potential profit.

Since the early 1950s, titanium has been produced through
the Kroll process. Manufacturers first make titanium
chloride, which gets processed into titanium
tetrachloride, and then mixed with magnesium, which draws
out the titanium and produces chlorine gas. The result is
a porous material, contaminated with magnesium salts,
which requires further processing to remove the salts and
make it usable for manufacturing. The process is so toxic
that it's difficult to get the permits needed to build a
new plant in order to expand production.

Sadoway says their process is much greener. They mix
titanium oxide with other oxides, such as magnesium oxide
or calcium oxide; then they heat the mixture to about
1,700 degrees Celsius. This produces a bath of molten
oxides, through which an electric current can be run. The
electricity produces electrolysis, breaking the bond
between the titanium and oxygen atoms, and the heavier
titanium sinks. The result is a pool of liquid titanium
at the bottom and oxygen bubbling out the top. The other
molten oxides remain in place, acting as the electrolyte
when more titanium oxide is added. "You just keep making
more and more and more metal," Sadoway says.

So far, though, Sadoway and colleagues have made only a
few grams with an experimental reactor cell. It's hard
for the small, ceramic device to sustain the high
temperature needed. Avanti is hoping to raise enough
money from investors to build a larger prototype to
actually produce a pool of liquid titanium. Sadoway hopes
to begin putting together a team of scientists by August
and to build working titanium smelters by August 2008.

Nabil Elkouh, president of Erigo Technologies, a
consulting firm that puts together deals between
researchers and investors, and who's an advisor to
Avanti, cautions that their projection of producing
titanium at one-tenth of the current cost, may be
optimistic at this point. "They may have something great,
but it may take four years," he says. "It may not ever be
one-tenth the cost -- but what if it were half the cost?
That'd still be great."

Anderson says plenty of people, from university
researchers to companies like DuPont, are working on
better ways to produce titanium. He hopes to visit MIT
this summer to look at Sadoway's process and see how well
it works.

http://www.techreview.com/printer_friendly_article.aspx?id=16963

End of forwarded message

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may
not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name,
current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others
are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the
article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with
Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more
information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.
Back to top
Marcus Aurelius
science forum beginner


Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM Reply with quote

I suppose a thermite type reaction wouldn't work for TiO2?

Adi Anant

Bret Cahill wrote:
Quote:
It's pretty sad when the federal government underfunds MIT to develop a
strategic metal.

So far, though, Sadoway and colleagues have made only a

few grams with an experimental reactor cell. It's hard

for the small, ceramic device to sustain the high

temperature needed. Avanti is hoping to raise enough

money from investors to build a larger prototype to

actually produce a pool of liquid titanium.


Bret Cahill
Back to top
Dr. Jai Maharaj
science forum addict


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:00 am    Post subject: Re: A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM Reply with quote

What would they use for golf balls, which would be expensive for them?

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

In article <LQjig.221102$5Z.98323@dukeread02>,
"are we on same page?" <sayhello@hotmail.com> posted:
Quote:
just what we needed - cheaper golf clubs.
now the backward castes in india can play golf too
without needing quota on the golf course.


www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj) posted:

A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM

Forwarded message

A Cleaner, Cheaper Route to Titanium

Using technology developed at MIT, 4-person startup
Avanti Metal hopes to reduce the cost of producing
Titanium from the current $40 per pound to a mere $3. The
article discusses how a special combinations of oxides
and electrolysis separates the titanium metal from the
Earth's abundant titanium oxide ore."

A Cleaner, Cheaper Route to Titanium

An MIT startup is hoping to make titanium much more
affordable. The benefit: lighter, more fuel-efficient
planes.

By Neil Savage

Titanium is as strong as steel, but weighs only about 60
percent as much. It's also highly resistant to corrosion,
and handles temperature extremes well. So, not
surprisingly, the aerospace industry wants to use much
more of it in the next generation of planes, making them
lighter and reducing fuel costs.

But there's a hitch: at around $40 per pound today,
titanium is expensive -- and the price keeps going up.

Now a startup, Avanti Metal, using technology developed
at MIT, hopes to commercialize a process that drastically
reduces the cost of producing titanium, making more of it
available for large, lighter-weight airplanes. The
process, developed by MIT chemist Donald Sadoway, applies
an environmentally benign, direct electrolysis method to
make the metal.

Titanium is naturally abundant. But processing titanium
oxide found in the ground to make a usable metal is slow
and produces toxic waste. "The price of titanium has gone
through the roof," says Corby Anderson, director of the
Center for Advanced Mineral and Metallurgical Processing
at the University of Montana. "It's double what it was
this time last year -- and last year it was pretty high."

Jeffrey Sabados, president of the four-person Avanti,
estimates that, based on production plans published by
Boeing and Airbus, there'll be a 30,000-ton shortage of
titanium by 2010. He claims that Avanti's process for
refining titanium could slash costs to about $3 per
pound. Then, if the metal then sells for even $25 per
pound, an estimate he calls conservative, it's a huge
potential profit.

Since the early 1950s, titanium has been produced through
the Kroll process. Manufacturers first make titanium
chloride, which gets processed into titanium
tetrachloride, and then mixed with magnesium, which draws
out the titanium and produces chlorine gas. The result is
a porous material, contaminated with magnesium salts,
which requires further processing to remove the salts and
make it usable for manufacturing. The process is so toxic
that it's difficult to get the permits needed to build a
new plant in order to expand production.

Sadoway says their process is much greener. They mix
titanium oxide with other oxides, such as magnesium oxide
or calcium oxide; then they heat the mixture to about
1,700 degrees Celsius. This produces a bath of molten
oxides, through which an electric current can be run. The
electricity produces electrolysis, breaking the bond
between the titanium and oxygen atoms, and the heavier
titanium sinks. The result is a pool of liquid titanium
at the bottom and oxygen bubbling out the top. The other
molten oxides remain in place, acting as the electrolyte
when more titanium oxide is added. "You just keep making
more and more and more metal," Sadoway says.

So far, though, Sadoway and colleagues have made only a
few grams with an experimental reactor cell. It's hard
for the small, ceramic device to sustain the high
temperature needed. Avanti is hoping to raise enough
money from investors to build a larger prototype to
actually produce a pool of liquid titanium. Sadoway hopes
to begin putting together a team of scientists by August
and to build working titanium smelters by August 2008.

Nabil Elkouh, president of Erigo Technologies, a
consulting firm that puts together deals between
researchers and investors, and who's an advisor to
Avanti, cautions that their projection of producing
titanium at one-tenth of the current cost, may be
optimistic at this point. "They may have something great,
but it may take four years," he says. "It may not ever be
one-tenth the cost -- but what if it were half the cost?
That'd still be great."

Anderson says plenty of people, from university
researchers to companies like DuPont, are working on
better ways to produce titanium. He hopes to visit MIT
this summer to look at Sadoway's process and see how well
it works.

http://www.techreview.com/printer_friendly_article.aspx?id=16963

End of forwarded message

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may
not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name,
current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others
are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the
article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with
Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more
information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.

Back to top
harmony
science forum beginner


Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM Reply with quote

habshi might have some idea about cheap golf balls like he does for energy.
btw, the rich hindu golfers don't care for the lost balls, do they? like
india imports so many waste products from usa, such as waste paper, waste
plastic, waste steel etc, it might consdier used golf balls.
now, if you see the lower caste guys play golf in india, i hope i get
mentioned in the story.


<usenet@mantra.comNAFht99 or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)> wrote in
message news:20060609SrdG881s7IANAFht99FCtat@NCdq0...
Quote:
What would they use for golf balls, which would be expensive for them?

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

In article <LQjig.221102$5Z.98323@dukeread02>,
"are we on same page?" <sayhello@hotmail.com> posted:
just what we needed - cheaper golf clubs.
now the backward castes in india can play golf too
without needing quota on the golf course.


www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj) posted:

A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM

Forwarded message

A Cleaner, Cheaper Route to Titanium

Using technology developed at MIT, 4-person startup
Avanti Metal hopes to reduce the cost of producing
Titanium from the current $40 per pound to a mere $3. The
article discusses how a special combinations of oxides
and electrolysis separates the titanium metal from the
Earth's abundant titanium oxide ore."

A Cleaner, Cheaper Route to Titanium

An MIT startup is hoping to make titanium much more
affordable. The benefit: lighter, more fuel-efficient
planes.

By Neil Savage

Titanium is as strong as steel, but weighs only about 60
percent as much. It's also highly resistant to corrosion,
and handles temperature extremes well. So, not
surprisingly, the aerospace industry wants to use much
more of it in the next generation of planes, making them
lighter and reducing fuel costs.

But there's a hitch: at around $40 per pound today,
titanium is expensive -- and the price keeps going up.

Now a startup, Avanti Metal, using technology developed
at MIT, hopes to commercialize a process that drastically
reduces the cost of producing titanium, making more of it
available for large, lighter-weight airplanes. The
process, developed by MIT chemist Donald Sadoway, applies
an environmentally benign, direct electrolysis method to
make the metal.

Titanium is naturally abundant. But processing titanium
oxide found in the ground to make a usable metal is slow
and produces toxic waste. "The price of titanium has gone
through the roof," says Corby Anderson, director of the
Center for Advanced Mineral and Metallurgical Processing
at the University of Montana. "It's double what it was
this time last year -- and last year it was pretty high."

Jeffrey Sabados, president of the four-person Avanti,
estimates that, based on production plans published by
Boeing and Airbus, there'll be a 30,000-ton shortage of
titanium by 2010. He claims that Avanti's process for
refining titanium could slash costs to about $3 per
pound. Then, if the metal then sells for even $25 per
pound, an estimate he calls conservative, it's a huge
potential profit.

Since the early 1950s, titanium has been produced through
the Kroll process. Manufacturers first make titanium
chloride, which gets processed into titanium
tetrachloride, and then mixed with magnesium, which draws
out the titanium and produces chlorine gas. The result is
a porous material, contaminated with magnesium salts,
which requires further processing to remove the salts and
make it usable for manufacturing. The process is so toxic
that it's difficult to get the permits needed to build a
new plant in order to expand production.

Sadoway says their process is much greener. They mix
titanium oxide with other oxides, such as magnesium oxide
or calcium oxide; then they heat the mixture to about
1,700 degrees Celsius. This produces a bath of molten
oxides, through which an electric current can be run. The
electricity produces electrolysis, breaking the bond
between the titanium and oxygen atoms, and the heavier
titanium sinks. The result is a pool of liquid titanium
at the bottom and oxygen bubbling out the top. The other
molten oxides remain in place, acting as the electrolyte
when more titanium oxide is added. "You just keep making
more and more and more metal," Sadoway says.

So far, though, Sadoway and colleagues have made only a
few grams with an experimental reactor cell. It's hard
for the small, ceramic device to sustain the high
temperature needed. Avanti is hoping to raise enough
money from investors to build a larger prototype to
actually produce a pool of liquid titanium. Sadoway hopes
to begin putting together a team of scientists by August
and to build working titanium smelters by August 2008.

Nabil Elkouh, president of Erigo Technologies, a
consulting firm that puts together deals between
researchers and investors, and who's an advisor to
Avanti, cautions that their projection of producing
titanium at one-tenth of the current cost, may be
optimistic at this point. "They may have something great,
but it may take four years," he says. "It may not ever be
one-tenth the cost -- but what if it were half the cost?
That'd still be great."

Anderson says plenty of people, from university
researchers to companies like DuPont, are working on
better ways to produce titanium. He hopes to visit MIT
this summer to look at Sadoway's process and see how well
it works.

http://www.techreview.com/printer_friendly_article.aspx?id=16963

End of forwarded message

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may
not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of
the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption
for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name,
current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others
are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the
article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use
of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is
believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with
Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes
by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more
information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes
of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.

Back to top
Dr. Jai Maharaj
science forum addict


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM Reply with quote

Believe me harmony ji, your ideashave
substance; that Paki escapee's don't.

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

In article <8ZGig.221227$5Z.136810@dukeread02>,
"harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> posted:
Quote:
habshi might have some idea about cheap golf balls like he does for energy.
btw, the rich hindu golfers don't care for the lost balls, do they? like
india imports so many waste products from usa, such as waste paper, waste
plastic, waste steel etc, it might consdier used golf balls.
now, if you see the lower caste guys play golf in india, i hope i get
mentioned in the story.


www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj) posted:

What would they use for golf balls, which would be expensive for them?

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

In article <LQjig.221102$5Z.98323@dukeread02>,
"are we on same page?" <sayhello@hotmail.com> posted:
just what we needed - cheaper golf clubs.
now the backward castes in india can play golf too
without needing quota on the golf course.


www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj) posted:

A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM

Forwarded message

A Cleaner, Cheaper Route to Titanium

Using technology developed at MIT, 4-person startup
Avanti Metal hopes to reduce the cost of producing
Titanium from the current $40 per pound to a mere $3. The
article discusses how a special combinations of oxides
and electrolysis separates the titanium metal from the
Earth's abundant titanium oxide ore."

A Cleaner, Cheaper Route to Titanium

An MIT startup is hoping to make titanium much more
affordable. The benefit: lighter, more fuel-efficient
planes.

By Neil Savage

Titanium is as strong as steel, but weighs only about 60
percent as much. It's also highly resistant to corrosion,
and handles temperature extremes well. So, not
surprisingly, the aerospace industry wants to use much
more of it in the next generation of planes, making them
lighter and reducing fuel costs.

But there's a hitch: at around $40 per pound today,
titanium is expensive -- and the price keeps going up.

Now a startup, Avanti Metal, using technology developed
at MIT, hopes to commercialize a process that drastically
reduces the cost of producing titanium, making more of it
available for large, lighter-weight airplanes. The
process, developed by MIT chemist Donald Sadoway, applies
an environmentally benign, direct electrolysis method to
make the metal.

Titanium is naturally abundant. But processing titanium
oxide found in the ground to make a usable metal is slow
and produces toxic waste. "The price of titanium has gone
through the roof," says Corby Anderson, director of the
Center for Advanced Mineral and Metallurgical Processing
at the University of Montana. "It's double what it was
this time last year -- and last year it was pretty high."

Jeffrey Sabados, president of the four-person Avanti,
estimates that, based on production plans published by
Boeing and Airbus, there'll be a 30,000-ton shortage of
titanium by 2010. He claims that Avanti's process for
refining titanium could slash costs to about $3 per
pound. Then, if the metal then sells for even $25 per
pound, an estimate he calls conservative, it's a huge
potential profit.

Since the early 1950s, titanium has been produced through
the Kroll process. Manufacturers first make titanium
chloride, which gets processed into titanium
tetrachloride, and then mixed with magnesium, which draws
out the titanium and produces chlorine gas. The result is
a porous material, contaminated with magnesium salts,
which requires further processing to remove the salts and
make it usable for manufacturing. The process is so toxic
that it's difficult to get the permits needed to build a
new plant in order to expand production.

Sadoway says their process is much greener. They mix
titanium oxide with other oxides, such as magnesium oxide
or calcium oxide; then they heat the mixture to about
1,700 degrees Celsius. This produces a bath of molten
oxides, through which an electric current can be run. The
electricity produces electrolysis, breaking the bond
between the titanium and oxygen atoms, and the heavier
titanium sinks. The result is a pool of liquid titanium
at the bottom and oxygen bubbling out the top. The other
molten oxides remain in place, acting as the electrolyte
when more titanium oxide is added. "You just keep making
more and more and more metal," Sadoway says.

So far, though, Sadoway and colleagues have made only a
few grams with an experimental reactor cell. It's hard
for the small, ceramic device to sustain the high
temperature needed. Avanti is hoping to raise enough
money from investors to build a larger prototype to
actually produce a pool of liquid titanium. Sadoway hopes
to begin putting together a team of scientists by August
and to build working titanium smelters by August 2008.

Nabil Elkouh, president of Erigo Technologies, a
consulting firm that puts together deals between
researchers and investors, and who's an advisor to
Avanti, cautions that their projection of producing
titanium at one-tenth of the current cost, may be
optimistic at this point. "They may have something great,
but it may take four years," he says. "It may not ever be
one-tenth the cost -- but what if it were half the cost?
That'd still be great."

Anderson says plenty of people, from university
researchers to companies like DuPont, are working on
better ways to produce titanium. He hopes to visit MIT
this summer to look at Sadoway's process and see how well
it works.

http://www.techreview.com/printer_friendly_article.aspx?id=16963

End of forwarded message

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may
not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of
the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption
for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name,
current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others
are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the
article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use
of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is
believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with
Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes
by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more
information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes
of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.



Back to top
harmony
science forum beginner


Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM Reply with quote

why, thanks doc. love to help them lower caste hindu guys, to keep them away
from the beady eyed congressis.
golf players in usa are republicans. i would hope golf playing lower class
hindus too would vote for free trading bjp. what caste is vijay singh - and
other hindu golfers?


<usenet@mantra.com4Zp25M or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)> wrote in
message news:20060611X3eQ1AGcg04Zp25M8gJ9cdJ@Pp9Pw...
Quote:
Believe me harmony ji, your ideashave
substance; that Paki escapee's don't.

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

In article <8ZGig.221227$5Z.136810@dukeread02>,
"harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> posted:
habshi might have some idea about cheap golf balls like he does for
energy.
btw, the rich hindu golfers don't care for the lost balls, do they? like
india imports so many waste products from usa, such as waste paper, waste
plastic, waste steel etc, it might consdier used golf balls.
now, if you see the lower caste guys play golf in india, i hope i get
mentioned in the story.


www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj) posted:

What would they use for golf balls, which would be expensive for them?

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

In article <LQjig.221102$5Z.98323@dukeread02>,
"are we on same page?" <sayhello@hotmail.com> posted:
just what we needed - cheaper golf clubs.
now the backward castes in india can play golf too
without needing quota on the golf course.


www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj) posted:

A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM

Forwarded message

A Cleaner, Cheaper Route to Titanium

Using technology developed at MIT, 4-person startup
Avanti Metal hopes to reduce the cost of producing
Titanium from the current $40 per pound to a mere $3. The
article discusses how a special combinations of oxides
and electrolysis separates the titanium metal from the
Earth's abundant titanium oxide ore."

A Cleaner, Cheaper Route to Titanium

An MIT startup is hoping to make titanium much more
affordable. The benefit: lighter, more fuel-efficient
planes.

By Neil Savage

Titanium is as strong as steel, but weighs only about 60
percent as much. It's also highly resistant to corrosion,
and handles temperature extremes well. So, not
surprisingly, the aerospace industry wants to use much
more of it in the next generation of planes, making them
lighter and reducing fuel costs.

But there's a hitch: at around $40 per pound today,
titanium is expensive -- and the price keeps going up.

Now a startup, Avanti Metal, using technology developed
at MIT, hopes to commercialize a process that drastically
reduces the cost of producing titanium, making more of it
available for large, lighter-weight airplanes. The
process, developed by MIT chemist Donald Sadoway, applies
an environmentally benign, direct electrolysis method to
make the metal.

Titanium is naturally abundant. But processing titanium
oxide found in the ground to make a usable metal is slow
and produces toxic waste. "The price of titanium has gone
through the roof," says Corby Anderson, director of the
Center for Advanced Mineral and Metallurgical Processing
at the University of Montana. "It's double what it was
this time last year -- and last year it was pretty high."

Jeffrey Sabados, president of the four-person Avanti,
estimates that, based on production plans published by
Boeing and Airbus, there'll be a 30,000-ton shortage of
titanium by 2010. He claims that Avanti's process for
refining titanium could slash costs to about $3 per
pound. Then, if the metal then sells for even $25 per
pound, an estimate he calls conservative, it's a huge
potential profit.

Since the early 1950s, titanium has been produced through
the Kroll process. Manufacturers first make titanium
chloride, which gets processed into titanium
tetrachloride, and then mixed with magnesium, which draws
out the titanium and produces chlorine gas. The result is
a porous material, contaminated with magnesium salts,
which requires further processing to remove the salts and
make it usable for manufacturing. The process is so toxic
that it's difficult to get the permits needed to build a
new plant in order to expand production.

Sadoway says their process is much greener. They mix
titanium oxide with other oxides, such as magnesium oxide
or calcium oxide; then they heat the mixture to about
1,700 degrees Celsius. This produces a bath of molten
oxides, through which an electric current can be run. The
electricity produces electrolysis, breaking the bond
between the titanium and oxygen atoms, and the heavier
titanium sinks. The result is a pool of liquid titanium
at the bottom and oxygen bubbling out the top. The other
molten oxides remain in place, acting as the electrolyte
when more titanium oxide is added. "You just keep making
more and more and more metal," Sadoway says.

So far, though, Sadoway and colleagues have made only a
few grams with an experimental reactor cell. It's hard
for the small, ceramic device to sustain the high
temperature needed. Avanti is hoping to raise enough
money from investors to build a larger prototype to
actually produce a pool of liquid titanium. Sadoway hopes
to begin putting together a team of scientists by August
and to build working titanium smelters by August 2008.

Nabil Elkouh, president of Erigo Technologies, a
consulting firm that puts together deals between
researchers and investors, and who's an advisor to
Avanti, cautions that their projection of producing
titanium at one-tenth of the current cost, may be
optimistic at this point. "They may have something great,
but it may take four years," he says. "It may not ever be
one-tenth the cost -- but what if it were half the cost?
That'd still be great."

Anderson says plenty of people, from university
researchers to companies like DuPont, are working on
better ways to produce titanium. He hopes to visit MIT
this summer to look at Sadoway's process and see how well
it works.

http://www.techreview.com/printer_friendly_article.aspx?id=16963

End of forwarded message

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post
may
not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion
of
the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the
exemption
for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name,
current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by
others
are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the
article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the
use
of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the
copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance
the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is
believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material
as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance
with
Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed
without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational
purposes
by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more
information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for
purposes
of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from
the
copyright owner.



Back to top
Ian Parker
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM Reply with quote

Intersting - Someone has stated at some point that the best way to
obtain oxygen for a lunar base is the electrolsis of titanium oxides
which proved to be abundant in the Apollo samples.

One word of warning - on Earth that is. Titanium to be useful has to be
very pure and be manufactured and worked in a vacuum or at any rate in
the absence of oxygen. On the Moon of course that is no problem.

As far as money for MIT is concerned. Yes at one level subsidy is
unfortunate, but all countries subsidize to some extent.
Back to top
The Ghost In The Machine1
science forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 1551

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:13 am    Post subject: Re: A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM Reply with quote

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 11:25:59 -0700, Ian Parker wrote:

Quote:
Intersting - Someone has stated at some point that the best way to obtain
oxygen for a lunar base is the electrolsis of titanium oxides which proved
to be abundant in the Apollo samples.

One word of warning - on Earth that is. Titanium to be useful has to be
very pure and be manufactured and worked in a vacuum or at any rate in the
absence of oxygen. On the Moon of course that is no problem.

As far as money for MIT is concerned. Yes at one level subsidy is
unfortunate, but all countries subsidize to some extent.

Dumb question:

The Lunar vacuum is very good (3 * 10^-10 Pascal) and better than all
(current and most likely future) Earthly attempts at a vacuum, but is it
good enough?

Also, are there issues if Titanium is worked in, say, nitrogen or helium?

--
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
It's still legal to go .sigless.
Back to top
Dr. Jai Maharaj
science forum addict


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM Reply with quote

Vijay Singh belongs to the driver, hitter and putter castes.

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

In article <0%wrg.316666$5Z.264439@dukeread02>,
"harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> posted:
Quote:
why, thanks doc. love to help them lower caste hindu guys, to keep them away
from the beady eyed congressis.
golf players in usa are republicans. i would hope golf playing lower class
hindus too would vote for free trading bjp. what caste is vijay singh - and
other hindu golfers?


www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj) posted:

Believe me harmony ji, your ideas have
substance; that Paki escapee's don't.

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

In article <8ZGig.221227$5Z.136810@dukeread02>,
"harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> posted:
habshi might have some idea about cheap golf balls like he does for
energy.
btw, the rich hindu golfers don't care for the lost balls, do they? like
india imports so many waste products from usa, such as waste paper, waste
plastic, waste steel etc, it might consdier used golf balls.
now, if you see the lower caste guys play golf in india, i hope i get
mentioned in the story.


www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj) posted:

What would they use for golf balls, which would be expensive for them?

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

In article <LQjig.221102$5Z.98323@dukeread02>,
"are we on same page?" <sayhello@hotmail.com> posted:
just what we needed - cheaper golf clubs.
now the backward castes in india can play golf too
without needing quota on the golf course.


www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj) posted:

A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM

Forwarded message

A Cleaner, Cheaper Route to Titanium

Using technology developed at MIT, 4-person startup
Avanti Metal hopes to reduce the cost of producing
Titanium from the current $40 per pound to a mere $3. The
article discusses how a special combinations of oxides
and electrolysis separates the titanium metal from the
Earth's abundant titanium oxide ore."

A Cleaner, Cheaper Route to Titanium

An MIT startup is hoping to make titanium much more
affordable. The benefit: lighter, more fuel-efficient
planes.

By Neil Savage

Titanium is as strong as steel, but weighs only about 60
percent as much. It's also highly resistant to corrosion,
and handles temperature extremes well. So, not
surprisingly, the aerospace industry wants to use much
more of it in the next generation of planes, making them
lighter and reducing fuel costs.

But there's a hitch: at around $40 per pound today,
titanium is expensive -- and the price keeps going up.

Now a startup, Avanti Metal, using technology developed
at MIT, hopes to commercialize a process that drastically
reduces the cost of producing titanium, making more of it
available for large, lighter-weight airplanes. The
process, developed by MIT chemist Donald Sadoway, applies
an environmentally benign, direct electrolysis method to
make the metal.

Titanium is naturally abundant. But processing titanium
oxide found in the ground to make a usable metal is slow
and produces toxic waste. "The price of titanium has gone
through the roof," says Corby Anderson, director of the
Center for Advanced Mineral and Metallurgical Processing
at the University of Montana. "It's double what it was
this time last year -- and last year it was pretty high."

Jeffrey Sabados, president of the four-person Avanti,
estimates that, based on production plans published by
Boeing and Airbus, there'll be a 30,000-ton shortage of
titanium by 2010. He claims that Avanti's process for
refining titanium could slash costs to about $3 per
pound. Then, if the metal then sells for even $25 per
pound, an estimate he calls conservative, it's a huge
potential profit.

Since the early 1950s, titanium has been produced through
the Kroll process. Manufacturers first make titanium
chloride, which gets processed into titanium
tetrachloride, and then mixed with magnesium, which draws
out the titanium and produces chlorine gas. The result is
a porous material, contaminated with magnesium salts,
which requires further processing to remove the salts and
make it usable for manufacturing. The process is so toxic
that it's difficult to get the permits needed to build a
new plant in order to expand production.

Sadoway says their process is much greener. They mix
titanium oxide with other oxides, such as magnesium oxide
or calcium oxide; then they heat the mixture to about
1,700 degrees Celsius. This produces a bath of molten
oxides, through which an electric current can be run. The
electricity produces electrolysis, breaking the bond
between the titanium and oxygen atoms, and the heavier
titanium sinks. The result is a pool of liquid titanium
at the bottom and oxygen bubbling out the top. The other
molten oxides remain in place, acting as the electrolyte
when more titanium oxide is added. "You just keep making
more and more and more metal," Sadoway says.

So far, though, Sadoway and colleagues have made only a
few grams with an experimental reactor cell. It's hard
for the small, ceramic device to sustain the high
temperature needed. Avanti is hoping to raise enough
money from investors to build a larger prototype to
actually produce a pool of liquid titanium. Sadoway hopes
to begin putting together a team of scientists by August
and to build working titanium smelters by August 2008.

Nabil Elkouh, president of Erigo Technologies, a
consulting firm that puts together deals between
researchers and investors, and who's an advisor to
Avanti, cautions that their projection of producing
titanium at one-tenth of the current cost, may be
optimistic at this point. "They may have something great,
but it may take four years," he says. "It may not ever be
one-tenth the cost -- but what if it were half the cost?
That'd still be great."

Anderson says plenty of people, from university
researchers to companies like DuPont, are working on
better ways to produce titanium. He hopes to visit MIT
this summer to look at Sadoway's process and see how well
it works.

http://www.techreview.com/printer_friendly_article.aspx?id=16963

End of forwarded message

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post
may
not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion
of
the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the
exemption
for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name,
current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by
others
are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the
article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the
use
of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the
copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance
the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is
believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material
as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance
with
Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed
without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational
purposes
by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more
information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for
purposes
of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from
the
copyright owner.





Back to top
Dr. Jai Maharaj
science forum addict


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM Reply with quote

As the world becomes more polluted and as space travel
becomes routine, humans and other species will so
evolve that they will be able to survive on less oxygen.
I suspect that people are already taking shorter and
fewer breaths per lifetime than before.

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

In article <1152296759.660246.244440@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
"Ian Parker" <ianparker2@gmail.com> posted:
Quote:
Intersting - Someone has stated at some point that the best way to
obtain oxygen for a lunar base is the electrolsis of titanium oxides
which proved to be abundant in the Apollo samples.

One word of warning - on Earth that is. Titanium to be useful has to be
very pure and be manufactured and worked in a vacuum or at any rate in
the absence of oxygen. On the Moon of course that is no problem.

As far as money for MIT is concerned. Yes at one level subsidy is
unfortunate, but all countries subsidize to some extent.
Back to top
Howard Brazee
science forum beginner


Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM Reply with quote

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 20:00:58 GMT, usenet@mantra.com and/or
www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj) wrote:

Quote:
Vijay Singh belongs to the driver, hitter and putter castes.

But he doesn't cast significantly, and I suspect he uses forged (not
fake) irons.
Back to top
<lucasea@sbcglobal.net
science forum addict


Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:26 am    Post subject: Re: A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM Reply with quote

"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:hhd5b25hihtdugkh95ahrj9mppe0gbni8o@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 20:00:58 GMT, usenet@mantra.com and/or
www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj) wrote:

Vijay Singh belongs to the driver, hitter and putter castes.

But he doesn't cast significantly, and I suspect he uses forged (not
fake) irons.

I dunno, I'll bet he goes fishing quite frequently. But you're probably
right, he's probably not a fakir.

Eric Lucas
Back to top
harmony
science forum beginner


Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM Reply with quote

<lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:O%Dsg.46890$VE1.2354@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Quote:

"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:hhd5b25hihtdugkh95ahrj9mppe0gbni8o@4ax.com...
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 20:00:58 GMT, usenet@mantra.com and/or
www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj) wrote:

Vijay Singh belongs to the driver, hitter and putter castes.

But he doesn't cast significantly, and I suspect he uses forged (not
fake) irons.

I dunno, I'll bet he goes fishing quite frequently. But you're probably
right, he's probably not a fakir.

Eric Lucas


say what! hindus are vegetarians, hence wouldn't go fishing, would they?
Back to top
me2
science forum beginner


Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: A CLEANER, CHEAPER ROUTE TO TITANIUM Reply with quote

harmony wrote:
Quote:
lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote ...

"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote ...
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 20:00:58 GMT, usenet@mantra.com and/or
www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj) wrote:

Vijay Singh belongs to the driver, hitter and putter castes.

But he doesn't cast significantly, and I suspect he uses forged (not
fake) irons.

I dunno, I'll bet he goes fishing quite frequently. But you're probably
right, he's probably not a fakir.

Eric Lucas

say what! hindus are vegetarians, hence wouldn't go fishing, would they?

Say what? Most Hindus are non-vegetarian and fishing castes (eg. Meenavar in
Tamilnadu) are mostly Hindus.
Back to top
Google

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 2 [18 Posts] Goto page:  1, 2 Next
View previous topic :: View next topic
The time now is Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:34 pm | All times are GMT
Forum index » Science and Technology » Chem
Jump to:  

Similar Topics
Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
No new posts THEY'RE BIDDING LIKE CRAZY ON EBAY -- Giant Petrified Coa... Ed Conrad Math 3 Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:29 pm
No new posts Welding Titanium Bgreer5050 Mechanics 1 Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:04 am
No new posts route planners martijn Math 4 Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:57 pm
No new posts HEPA filter on domestic vacuum cleaner Will Physics 9 Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:11 pm
No new posts Need a better mineral scale/corrosion cleaner Chris Carlen Chem 6 Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:51 pm

Copyright © 2004-2005 DeniX Solutions SRL
Other DeniX Solutions sites: Electronics forum |  Medicine forum |  Unix/Linux blog |  Unix/Linux documentation |  Unix/Linux forums  |  send newsletters
 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.8397s ][ Queries: 16 (0.7937s) ][ GZIP on - Debug on ]