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old device, need help running
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Herman Family
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:33 am    Post subject: Re: old device, need help running Reply with quote

<ITatarintsev@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149909225.246781.260790@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
I am a student doing biomedical research. My lab has an old impact
device that was previously used to conduct traumatic spinal chord
injuries. My current boss wants me to get it running, but I have never
seen something like this. It connects to a 386 DELL comp, which runs
Windows 3.1.

Here is a link that shows what it looks like:
http://www.pitt.edu/~ibt2/impacter.htm

Can someone tell me what type of controler it uses, what program can be
used to run it?


Thanks


Well, lets just say you will be earning your money on this project.

Lets start with the simple parts.
What is it connected to?
sensors?
motors of some kind?
a switch?
What sort of software is in the old computer?
quick basic?
labview
a data acquisition program?
Is this a home brew unit, or is it a supplied unit?
Is there a manufacturer's name on it?
Is there a commercial board inside the black box?
What sort of board is used to talk to it? A/D, serial, parallel, DIIK?

I think it might be worth it to wind up the 386 and see what happens. (put
those squirrels to work).

Please keep us posted. Google any big part numbers. There might be some
sort of manual to be had.

Michael
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ITatarintsev@gmail.com
science forum beginner


Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: old device, need help running Reply with quote

Quote:
What is it connected to?
It is connected to motors (black round things) that raise and lower a

metal rod.

Quote:
a data acquisition program?
The computer had no labview installed, and I didn't see any programs

related to this device.

Quote:
Is this a home brew unit, or is it a supplied unit?
This is a custom built unit, and there is no power switch.


Is there a manufacturer's name on it?
Nope

Quote:
What sort of board is used to talk to it? A/D, serial, parallel, DIIK?
I don't know about this one

I think it might be worth it to wind up the 386 and see what happens. (put
those squirrels to work).
I already turned on the computer, but device doesn't respond.


Quote:

Michael
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Brian Whatcott
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 267

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: old device, need help running Reply with quote

On 9 Jun 2006 20:13:45 -0700, ITatarintsev@gmail.com wrote:

Quote:
I am a student doing biomedical research. My lab has an old impact
device that was previously used to conduct traumatic spinal chord
injuries. My current boss wants me to get it running, but I have never
seen something like this. It connects to a 386 DELL comp, which runs
Windows 3.1.

Here is a link that shows what it looks like:
http://www.pitt.edu/~ibt2/impacter.htm

Can someone tell me what type of controler it uses, what program can be
used to run it?


Thanks

You already identified the PC and the operating system.
Now the application. Is there an executable? a source?
is it written in assembler, fortran, pascal, C ?

Is there a maker's name for the system as a whole?
This might be a fingerhold to get started.
I couldn't tell if I was looking at an ethernet hook up
or IEEE something.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK
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John Eric Voltin
science forum beginner


Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: old device, need help running Reply with quote

I would suggest doing a careful inventory of all the software installed on
that computer.

--
- John

John Eric Voltin
Senior Mechanical Engineer
Agile Technology
512-633-0394

<ITatarintsev@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149909225.246781.260790@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
I am a student doing biomedical research. My lab has an old impact
device that was previously used to conduct traumatic spinal chord
injuries. My current boss wants me to get it running, but I have never
seen something like this. It connects to a 386 DELL comp, which runs
Windows 3.1.

Here is a link that shows what it looks like:
http://www.pitt.edu/~ibt2/impacter.htm

Can someone tell me what type of controler it uses, what program can be
used to run it?


Thanks

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operator jay
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: old device, need help running Reply with quote

Open the black box and try to determine what hardware is in there (on the
PCB). Most likely you are dealing with a homebrew program that uses the
parallel port to drive a stepper or servo motor.


"John Eric Voltin" <jevoltin@agile-technology.com> wrote in message
news:pHAig.21528$bk5.10244@tornado.texas.rr.com...
Quote:
I would suggest doing a careful inventory of all the software installed on
that computer.

--
- John

John Eric Voltin
Senior Mechanical Engineer
Agile Technology
512-633-0394

ITatarintsev@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149909225.246781.260790@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I am a student doing biomedical research. My lab has an old impact
device that was previously used to conduct traumatic spinal chord
injuries. My current boss wants me to get it running, but I have never
seen something like this. It connects to a 386 DELL comp, which runs
Windows 3.1.

Here is a link that shows what it looks like:
http://www.pitt.edu/~ibt2/impacter.htm

Can someone tell me what type of controler it uses, what program can be
used to run it?


Thanks




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Ned Simmons
science forum beginner


Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: old device, need help running Reply with quote

In article <1149939754.617652.178370@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
ITatarintsev@gmail.com says...
Quote:
What is it connected to?
It is connected to motors (black round things) that raise and lower a
metal rod.


Don't worry about software until you identify the hardware and all the
interconnections between the devices external to the PC. Start from the
motors and work back until you identify where the add-on stuff
interfaces with the PC. Presumably some variation of: motors -> drives
-> controller -> interface. Photos and any identifying markings on the
various components would help.

Ned Simmons
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Herman Family
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: old device, need help running Reply with quote

Ok, we're on the right track. Can you tell how many wires each mortor has?
They are probably stepper motors.

Is it connected to anything else besides the motors? If not, we're looking
at just some sort of motor controller.

The device won't respond to just turning on the computer. There is a
program in there that runs it. Look for any programming language,
especially quick basic, quick c (qb, qc), and look at the directory
structure. Chances are there is a directory with some indication of the
device. A program has to send data to the address of the board inside the
computer to make anything happen.

Open the black box up, and look for a name on the internal board. It's
probably something like TI, or Analog Devices.

Michael
"nea" <ITatarintsev@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149939754.617652.178370@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
What is it connected to?
It is connected to motors (black round things) that raise and lower a
metal rod.

a data acquisition program?
The computer had no labview installed, and I didn't see any programs
related to this device.

Is this a home brew unit, or is it a supplied unit?
This is a custom built unit, and there is no power switch.

Is there a manufacturer's name on it?
Nope

What sort of board is used to talk to it? A/D, serial, parallel, DIIK?
I don't know about this one

I think it might be worth it to wind up the 386 and see what happens.
(put
those squirrels to work).
I already turned on the computer, but device doesn't respond.


Michael
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N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
science forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 2835

PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:03 am    Post subject: Re: old device, need help running Reply with quote

Dear nea:

"nea" <ITatarintsev@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149939754.617652.178370@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
....
Quote:
I think it might be worth it to wind up the 386 and
see what happens. (put those squirrels to work).

I already turned on the computer, but device
doesn't respond.

Hopefully you don't mean the computer doesn't boot up...

It would be good to run "sysedit" and note what device drivers
are loaded in config.sys, autoexec.bat, and in the [Run] section
of win.ini.

Most likely, there will be an icon on the desktop that will
trigger the application that drives/records what the system does.

David A. Smith
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Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL1
science forum beginner


Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: old device, need help running Reply with quote

On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 17:03:15 -0700, in sci.engr.mech "N:dlzc D:aol T:com
\(dlzc\)" <N: dlzc1 D:cox T:net@nospam.com> wrote:

Quote:
Hopefully you don't mean the computer doesn't boot up...

It would be good to run "sysedit" and note what device drivers
are loaded in config.sys, autoexec.bat, and in the [Run] section
of win.ini.

I would suggest starting with something more simple which doesn't have the
ability to actually edit the files, as the OP sound like he lacks the basic
knowledge of the old DOS system setup. If it's not backed up somewhere and
it getting hosed it's gone forever. Something along the lines of:

TYPE autoexec.bat | more

should list the contents to the screen, IIRC. Piping the output through the
more command, will parse screenfuls if the file contexts fill more than one
screen.
--
Ed Ruf (Usenet2@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
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N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
science forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 2835

PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: old device, need help running Reply with quote

Dear Ed Ruf:

"Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!)" <egruf_usenet2@cox.net> wrote
in message news:cstn82d3rdk71hd39rf08mm997co08amgu@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 17:03:15 -0700, in sci.engr.mech "N:dlzc
D:aol T:com
\(dlzc\)" <N: dlzc1 D:cox T:net@nospam.com> wrote:

Hopefully you don't mean the computer doesn't
boot up...

It would be good to run "sysedit" and note what
device drivers are loaded in config.sys,
autoexec.bat, and in the [Run] section of win.ini.

I would suggest starting with something more
simple which doesn't have the ability to actually
edit the files, as the OP sound like he lacks the
basic knowledge of the old DOS system setup.

He said it was running Windows 3.1. You don't trust him to run
"sysedit", but you do trust him at the DOS prompt? Hopefully he
knows how to get there...

Quote:
If it's not backed up somewhere and
it getting hosed it's gone forever.

Agreed. A backup might be worthwhile.

Quote:
Something along the lines of:

TYPE autoexec.bat | more

TYPE config.sys | more
TYPE \windows\win.ini | more

Quote:
should list the contents to the screen, IIRC.
Piping the output through the more command,
will parse screenfuls if the file contexts fill
more than one screen.

Yes, that is correct. And up until Win98, the More command
actually worked to produce screenfulls rather than
line-at-a-time.

David A. Smith
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Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL1
science forum beginner


Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: old device, need help running Reply with quote

On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:31:01 -0700, in sci.engr.mech "N:dlzc D:aol T:com
\(dlzc\)" <N: dlzc1 D:cox T:net@nospam.com> wrote:

Quote:
Yes, that is correct. And up until Win98, the More command
actually worked to produce screenfulls rather than
line-at-a-time.

Still works that way. Just use the spacebar to get to the next screen, not
the return key.
--
Ed Ruf (Usenet2@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
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ITatarintsev@gmail.com
science forum beginner


Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: old device, need help running Reply with quote

I finaly found info on this device. It is the MASCIS impactor, a
custom made device by Wise Young et al back in the 1990s. It is now
used by many labs to perform spinal chord injuries.

Here is a link that explains more


http://carecure.rutgers.edu/ftp/IMPACTOR03a.pdf
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Bret Cahill
science forum Guru


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 480

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: old device, need help running Reply with quote

For the centennial of flight they tried to redo the Wright Bros. plane.
They had drawings and money and every other advantage.

They failed.

There's something about technology that doesn't happen in the arts.
Once it's gone it's GONE.

It may be easier to come up with something new or to convince patients
that back pain isn't so bad.


Bret Cahill
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Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL1
science forum beginner


Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: old device, need help running Reply with quote

On 16 Jun 2006 12:41:05 -0700, in sci.engr.mech "Bret Cahill"
<BretCahill@aol.com> wrote:

Quote:
For the centennial of flight they tried to redo the Wright Bros. plane.
They had drawings and money and every other advantage.

If that's what you think, then you don't know the full story. They didn't
have the weather and the weather turned out to be quite important in the
original flights. Particularly the winds.

--
Ed Ruf (Usenet2@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
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Sir Frederick
science forum beginner


Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: old device, need help running Reply with quote

On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:41:44 -0400, "Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!)" <egruf_usenet2@cox.net> wrote:

Quote:
On 16 Jun 2006 12:41:05 -0700, in sci.engr.mech "Bret Cahill"
BretCahill@aol.com> wrote:

For the centennial of flight they tried to redo the Wright Bros. plane.
They had drawings and money and every other advantage.

If that's what you think, then you don't know the full story. They didn't
have the weather and the weather turned out to be quite important in the
original flights. Particularly the winds.

And we have "Bret Cahill", another source of failure, not available to the Wrights.
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