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Bedroom in apartment: Need ideas to buffer sounds from ceiling/neighbors
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The Ghost
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Bedroom in apartment: Need ideas to buffer sounds from ceiling/neighbors Reply with quote

Angelo Campanella <a.campanella@att.net> wrote in
news:MHypg.292243$Fs1.239563@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

Quote:
888eight888 wrote:

There must be something that would deaden sound...I understand, Tony,
that you don't believe so. "Move out" or "get used to the noise" is all
or nothing.

You are missing the point. Once the sound has entered the room space
ANYWHERE, it will be heard everywhere.

Imagine the smell of a skunk!
No matter how much you mop up, you WILL smell the skunk.

A barrier to his fumes is the only hope.

If someone else has actually tried something or heard of someone else
trying something successfully - let me know.

We do this all the time.

It is a closed barrier to the space above he ceiling. In addition to
being closed, it must have mass; one or two layers of drywall.

It MUST also have an independeent cavity behind it; hence either a new
ceiling surface several inches below that existing, or the old inferior
ceiling surface must be removed and the new ceiling on a separate
support structure is to be constru cted below the old ceiling, the new
dryewall back surface being exposed to the overall cavity.

All joints and corneredges must be taped closed.

I am just looking for some reduction in the impact of the noise, not
complete silence.

Anytthing other than this treatment (or incapacitation of the residents
above) will fail.

Angelo Campanella


I vote for incapacitation of the residents above. With a last name such as
yours, I would think that you might be in a position to refer the OP to
people who are in that line of work. Smile
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Angelo Campanella
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 226

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Bedroom in apartment: Need ideas to buffer sounds from ceiling/neighbors Reply with quote

888eight888 wrote:

Quote:
There must be something that would deaden sound...I understand, Tony,
that you don't believe so. "Move out" or "get used to the noise" is all
or nothing.

You are missing the point. Once the sound has entered the room space
ANYWHERE, it will be heard everywhere.

Imagine the smell of a skunk!
No matter how much you mop up, you WILL smell the skunk.

A barrier to his fumes is the only hope.

Quote:
If someone else has actually tried something or heard of someone else
trying something successfully - let me know.

We do this all the time.

It is a closed barrier to the space above he ceiling. In addition to
being closed, it must have mass; one or two layers of drywall.

It MUST also have an independeent cavity behind it; hence either a new
ceiling surface several inches below that existing, or the old inferior
ceiling surface must be removed and the new ceiling on a separate
support structure is to be constru cted below the old ceiling, the new
dryewall back surface being exposed to the overall cavity.

All joints and corneredges must be taped closed.

Quote:
I am just looking for some reduction in the impact of the noise, not
complete silence.

Anytthing other than this treatment (or incapacitation of the residents
above) will fail.

Angelo Campanella
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buffalobill
science forum beginner


Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:45 am    Post subject: Re: Bedroom in apartment: Need ideas to buffer sounds from ceiling/neighbors Reply with quote

maybe buy the upstairs neighbors [a thick white carpet and] foot
slippers for everyone. maybe trade in the super ball for a nerf ball.
i had a tenant many years ago in a lower who complained about having
her peace disturbed by the late night arrival of an inconsiderate upper
tenant who wore "clogs" around the house was the complaint. we followed
it up and got no cooperation about asking her to slip off her noisy
wooden sandals at the entry. after a few subsequent inconsiderate
actions like setting off the smoke alarm on several late nights after
passing out from drinking after putting food in the gas oven and
burning it, we asked the upper tenant to move.
as a tenant, your think outside the box solution might be to find the
noisy folks a nicer or bigger apartment or home with yard to rent. have
a look and see if your area is listed at: www.craigslist.org
don't be surprised if you find a nice place for yourself there also.
you might even look for those who need an apartment like the one
upstairs in the wanted list.

888eight888 wrote:
Quote:
Hello,

Between the ceiling and the floor of the upstairs apartment and mine;
there is no insulation. Not only can I hear every footstep, but the
neighbors are extremely active; something is constantly hitting the
floor unannounced. (Don't ask - I don't know, either.)
The landlord doesn't want to pay for/put in any insulation. Apparently,
it would involve ripping up the ceilings.

As far as putting something on my side of the ceiling; I've heard that
Home Depot has "foam boards" and I've heard of ideas regarding putting
up layers of rugs, etc.

I need clarification on how to and what materials to use, (as cheap as
possible), that I could affix, screw in or whatever to the ceiling and
possibly something on the walls (?) that would successfully reduce the
amount of noise.

If you have specifics regarding materials, posting a link to Home Depot
web pages would be helpful.

http://www.homedepot.com

Otherwise, the general name of a material is good enough.


It's a rental, so I can't go crazy with marring the ceiling. But I
guess I could put in screws that can later be filled in.

I am just going to do something to the bedroom only; roughly a 20 ft.
by 12 ft area.

Whatever ideas people have; don't worry about how it will look; I could
always drape something over whatever work is there.

Thanks A LOT for any input.
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Noozer
science forum beginner


Joined: 30 Jun 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Bedroom in apartment: Need ideas to buffer sounds from ceiling/neighbors Reply with quote

Quote:
Sorry the answer doesn't change: it needs structural work. Don't waste
money and effort by sticking things to the ceiling. There are no magic
materials that provide a certain amount of noise reduction, regardless of
what ignorant manufacturers may write. Noise reduction depends totally
on
the conditions of use, and in your case there is nothing that you can
stick
on the ceiling that will have a worthwhile effect. Get used to the noise
or
move.

There nust be something that would deaden sound...I understand, Tony,
that you don't believe so. "Move out" or "get used to the noise" is all
or nothing.

If someone else has actually tried something or heard of someone else
trying something successfully - let me know.

I am just looking for some reduction in the impact of the noise, not
complete silence.

Honestly there is very little you can do to stop the noise.

The best you could do is hang very heavy "blankets" down each wall, and one
across the ceiling... You're talking several thousand dollars.

If you are going to spend any money on this, it would be 100 times better if
a "spongy" subfloor could be installed upstairs.
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888eight888
science forum beginner


Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Bedroom in apartment: Need ideas to buffer sounds from ceiling/neighbors Reply with quote

Tony wrote:
Quote:
"888eight888" <bz811@go.com> wrote in message
news:1151674545.668154.30920@x69g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
Tony wrote:
"888eight888" <bz811@go.com> wrote in message
news:1151645002.483168.29540@h44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Thanks for the input and ideas, all...

Here is a sample to give you a general idea of the noises in question;
194KB...3 separate ones @ 16 seconds total.

http://m45-2006.tripod.com/cgi-bin/6-29-06-NeighborNoise.mp3

Without knowing the conditions of recording, or any reference to indicate
how loud it was, it is a bit difficult to tell what it sounded like in
reality. However at a guess I would say the cause is simply a very
lightweight floor construction. Is your apartment purpose built or a
conversion?


It's a big house with apartment units, so I suppose it wasn't
originally built for that purpose.

The recording is crude - it's mono and the sounds have a lot more
impact in reality. I just wanted to show the characteristics of the
sounds.

Regarding what you said about the lightweight floor - you can hear in
the second one, as the person stomps, the floor buckles...

Sorry the answer doesn't change: it needs structural work. Don't waste
money and effort by sticking things to the ceiling. There are no magic
materials that provide a certain amount of noise reduction, regardless of
what ignorant manufacturers may write. Noise reduction depends totally on
the conditions of use, and in your case there is nothing that you can stick
on the ceiling that will have a worthwhile effect. Get used to the noise or
move.

There nust be something that would deaden sound...I understand, Tony,
that you don't believe so. "Move out" or "get used to the noise" is all
or nothing.

If someone else has actually tried something or heard of someone else
trying something successfully - let me know.

I am just looking for some reduction in the impact of the noise, not
complete silence.
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Tony177
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Bedroom in apartment: Need ideas to buffer sounds from ceiling/neighbors Reply with quote

"888eight888" <bz811@go.com> wrote in message
news:1151674545.668154.30920@x69g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Tony wrote:
"888eight888" <bz811@go.com> wrote in message
news:1151645002.483168.29540@h44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Thanks for the input and ideas, all...

Here is a sample to give you a general idea of the noises in question;
194KB...3 separate ones @ 16 seconds total.

http://m45-2006.tripod.com/cgi-bin/6-29-06-NeighborNoise.mp3

Without knowing the conditions of recording, or any reference to indicate
how loud it was, it is a bit difficult to tell what it sounded like in
reality. However at a guess I would say the cause is simply a very
lightweight floor construction. Is your apartment purpose built or a
conversion?


It's a big house with apartment units, so I suppose it wasn't
originally built for that purpose.

The recording is crude - it's mono and the sounds have a lot more
impact in reality. I just wanted to show the characteristics of the
sounds.

Regarding what you said about the lightweight floor - you can hear in
the second one, as the person stomps, the floor buckles...

Sorry the answer doesn't change: it needs structural work. Don't waste

money and effort by sticking things to the ceiling. There are no magic
materials that provide a certain amount of noise reduction, regardless of
what ignorant manufacturers may write. Noise reduction depends totally on
the conditions of use, and in your case there is nothing that you can stick
on the ceiling that will have a worthwhile effect. Get used to the noise or
move.

--
Tony W
My e-mail address has no hyphen
- but please don't use it, reply to the group.
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888eight888
science forum beginner


Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Bedroom in apartment: Need ideas to buffer sounds from ceiling/neighbors Reply with quote

Tony wrote:
Quote:
"888eight888" <bz811@go.com> wrote in message
news:1151645002.483168.29540@h44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Thanks for the input and ideas, all...

Here is a sample to give you a general idea of the noises in question;
194KB...3 separate ones @ 16 seconds total.

http://m45-2006.tripod.com/cgi-bin/6-29-06-NeighborNoise.mp3

Without knowing the conditions of recording, or any reference to indicate
how loud it was, it is a bit difficult to tell what it sounded like in
reality. However at a guess I would say the cause is simply a very
lightweight floor construction. Is your apartment purpose built or a
conversion?


It's a big house with apartment units, so I suppose it wasn't
originally built for that purpose.

The recording is crude - it's mono and the sounds have a lot more
impact in reality. I just wanted to show the characteristics of the
sounds.

Regarding what you said about the lightweight floor - you can hear in
the second one, as the person stomps, the floor buckles...
Back to top
Tony177
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: Bedroom in apartment: Need ideas to buffer sounds from ceiling/neighbors Reply with quote

"888eight888" <bz811@go.com> wrote in message
news:1151645002.483168.29540@h44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Quote:
Thanks for the input and ideas, all...

Here is a sample to give you a general idea of the noises in question;
194KB...3 separate ones @ 16 seconds total.

http://m45-2006.tripod.com/cgi-bin/6-29-06-NeighborNoise.mp3

Without knowing the conditions of recording, or any reference to indicate
how loud it was, it is a bit difficult to tell what it sounded like in
reality. However at a guess I would say the cause is simply a very
lightweight floor construction. Is your apartment purpose built or a
conversion?

--
Tony W
My e-mail address has no hyphen
- but please don't use it, reply to the group.
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888eight888
science forum beginner


Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:23 am    Post subject: Re: Bedroom in apartment: Need ideas to buffer sounds from ceiling/neighbors Reply with quote

Goedjn wrote:
Quote:

I do have the white noise; it's helpful but not an ultimate
solution/compromise. I (now) have an idea what I am going to try...

I forgot to mention that I just moved in - and was exhausted after the
first night of sleeping in a room where people kept waking me up at all
hours of the night.


For what it's worth, what's keeping you up isn't the noise level,
it's your sense that the noises aren't "right". If you can
convince your hind-brain that the noise is a normal and expected
part of the environment, it will cease to bother you.

People sleep near, and on planes, trains, fire stations,
and all kinds of other noisy places (Like the deep woods).
*YOU'VE* probably slept in noisier places.

Screaming fights are one thing, but you should
be able to adapt to just normal moving-around sounds.

--Goedjn

Thanks for the input and ideas, all...

Here is a sample to give you a general idea of the noises in question;
194KB...3 separate ones @ 16 seconds total.

http://m45-2006.tripod.com/cgi-bin/6-29-06-NeighborNoise.mp3


(Note: You may here some radio interference on the recording - that is
not from the noise source.)
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Goedjn
science forum beginner


Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Bedroom in apartment: Need ideas to buffer sounds from ceiling/neighbors Reply with quote

Quote:

I do have the white noise; it's helpful but not an ultimate
solution/compromise. I (now) have an idea what I am going to try...

I forgot to mention that I just moved in - and was exhausted after the
first night of sleeping in a room where people kept waking me up at all
hours of the night.


For what it's worth, what's keeping you up isn't the noise level,
it's your sense that the noises aren't "right". If you can
convince your hind-brain that the noise is a normal and expected
part of the environment, it will cease to bother you.

People sleep near, and on planes, trains, fire stations,
and all kinds of other noisy places (Like the deep woods).
*YOU'VE* probably slept in noisier places.

Screaming fights are one thing, but you should
be able to adapt to just normal moving-around sounds.

--Goedjn
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Banty
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Bedroom in apartment: Need ideas to buffer sounds from ceiling/neighbors Reply with quote

In article <y6ang.6105$Ud4.5169@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, Jimmie D says...
Quote:


"888eight888" <bz811@go.com> wrote in message
news:1151031162.544823.230340@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Hello,

Between the ceiling and the floor of the upstairs apartment and mine;
there is no insulation. Not only can I hear every footstep, but the
neighbors are extremely active; something is constantly hitting the
floor unannounced. (Don't ask - I don't know, either.)
The landlord doesn't want to pay for/put in any insulation. Apparently,
it would involve ripping up the ceilings.

As far as putting something on my side of the ceiling; I've heard that
Home Depot has "foam boards" and I've heard of ideas regarding putting
up layers of rugs, etc.

I need clarification on how to and what materials to use, (as cheap as
possible), that I could affix, screw in or whatever to the ceiling and
possibly something on the walls (?) that would successfully reduce the
amount of noise.

If you have specifics regarding materials, posting a link to Home Depot
web pages would be helpful.

http://www.homedepot.com

Otherwise, the general name of a material is good enough.


It's a rental, so I can't go crazy with marring the ceiling. But I
guess I could put in screws that can later be filled in.

I am just going to do something to the bedroom only; roughly a 20 ft.
by 12 ft area.

Whatever ideas people have; don't worry about how it will look; I could
always drape something over whatever work is there.

Thanks A LOT for any input.


See if your landlord will let you move to another apartment. The noise may
be grounds for breaking your lease.



Being as he's talking about footfalls mostly, I don't think so. The landlord
also has an obligation to allow his tenants the normal use of their apartments.
And that includes walking around in them.

Banty


--
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Jimmie D
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Bedroom in apartment: Need ideas to buffer sounds from ceiling/neighbors Reply with quote

"888eight888" <bz811@go.com> wrote in message
news:1151031162.544823.230340@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Hello,

Between the ceiling and the floor of the upstairs apartment and mine;
there is no insulation. Not only can I hear every footstep, but the
neighbors are extremely active; something is constantly hitting the
floor unannounced. (Don't ask - I don't know, either.)
The landlord doesn't want to pay for/put in any insulation. Apparently,
it would involve ripping up the ceilings.

As far as putting something on my side of the ceiling; I've heard that
Home Depot has "foam boards" and I've heard of ideas regarding putting
up layers of rugs, etc.

I need clarification on how to and what materials to use, (as cheap as
possible), that I could affix, screw in or whatever to the ceiling and
possibly something on the walls (?) that would successfully reduce the
amount of noise.

If you have specifics regarding materials, posting a link to Home Depot
web pages would be helpful.

http://www.homedepot.com

Otherwise, the general name of a material is good enough.


It's a rental, so I can't go crazy with marring the ceiling. But I
guess I could put in screws that can later be filled in.

I am just going to do something to the bedroom only; roughly a 20 ft.
by 12 ft area.

Whatever ideas people have; don't worry about how it will look; I could
always drape something over whatever work is there.

Thanks A LOT for any input.


See if your landlord will let you move to another apartment. The noise may
be grounds for breaking your lease.
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888eight888
science forum beginner


Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Bedroom in apartment: Need ideas to buffer sounds from ceiling/neighbors Reply with quote

Me: "But you contracted with me that you would provide a 'peaceful,
**inhabitable environment' - which it is not."

**"habitable"...
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888eight888
science forum beginner


Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Bedroom in apartment: Need ideas to buffer sounds from ceiling/neighbors Reply with quote

ameijers wrote:
Quote:
"888eight888" <bz811@go.com> wrote in message
news:1151031162.544823.230340@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Hello,

Between the ceiling and the floor of the upstairs apartment and mine;
there is no insulation. Not only can I hear every footstep, but the
neighbors are extremely active; something is constantly hitting the
floor unannounced. (Don't ask - I don't know, either.)
The landlord doesn't want to pay for/put in any insulation. Apparently,
it would involve ripping up the ceilings.

As far as putting something on my side of the ceiling; I've heard that
Home Depot has "foam boards" and I've heard of ideas regarding putting
up layers of rugs, etc.

I need clarification on how to and what materials to use, (as cheap as
possible), that I could affix, screw in or whatever to the ceiling and
possibly something on the walls (?) that would successfully reduce the
amount of noise.

If you have specifics regarding materials, posting a link to Home Depot
web pages would be helpful.

http://www.homedepot.com

Otherwise, the general name of a material is good enough.


It's a rental, so I can't go crazy with marring the ceiling. But I
guess I could put in screws that can later be filled in.

I am just going to do something to the bedroom only; roughly a 20 ft.
by 12 ft area.

Whatever ideas people have; don't worry about how it will look; I could
always drape something over whatever work is there.

Thanks A LOT for any input.

Forget about foam board or fabric on the ceiling. Both big hazards in a
fire. The fumes from the foam can kill, and both will wick any flames to
engulf the whole room in seconds. I second what others have said about white
noise generators, or earplugs. Think of it as motivation to move. I live in
a house now, but did 20+ years in an apartment, always ground floor. But I
am half-deaf in one ear, so I would just put my good ear into the pillow.
Yes, I had to buy a Real Loud alarm clock, and still often slept through it,
unless I happened to roll over in the night.

aem sends...

Thanks for the input, all...

I do have the white noise; it's helpful but not an ultimate
solution/compromise. I (now) have an idea what I am going to try...

I forgot to mention that I just moved in - and was exhausted after the
first night of sleeping in a room where people kept waking me up at all
hours of the night.

When I told the landlord, (about the third day of living here); he
nastily suggested that I "move out" because "no one else" had "ever"
(in the past) complained before. I did not take kindly to that
statement or his tone..(If it's such a great place, why was it vacant
for me to rent?)

Here is an excerpt from the conversation:

Me: "Hello, Mr. LL, it's Me.."

LL: "Yeth, thwir, howth mayth I helpth youthhh?"

Me: "Listen, I just moved in - the people upstairs kept me up all
night. I hear everything - there is no insulation."

LL: "Welth, there with nothwing I canth doo.."

Me: "But you contracted with me that you would provide a 'peaceful,
inhabitable environment' - which it is not."

LL: "WHAAAAAA! I whhaaant my monwee!!!!"

Me: "But, sir..if you just hear me out..."

LL: "Monweee! Monweeeeeeee! GA GOO BA BAAA MONWEEEEE!!!!".

Me: "Well, okay...but I may have to reconsider this situation."

LL: "BAAAAADDD MAAANNNNNNN!! MONWEEEEEE GOOOOOOOOOOOODTHHH!!!!!!!"


(As you can see, it was a difficult conversation.)
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ameijers
science forum beginner


Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Bedroom in apartment: Need ideas to buffer sounds from ceiling/neighbors Reply with quote

"888eight888" <bz811@go.com> wrote in message
news:1151031162.544823.230340@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Hello,

Between the ceiling and the floor of the upstairs apartment and mine;
there is no insulation. Not only can I hear every footstep, but the
neighbors are extremely active; something is constantly hitting the
floor unannounced. (Don't ask - I don't know, either.)
The landlord doesn't want to pay for/put in any insulation. Apparently,
it would involve ripping up the ceilings.

As far as putting something on my side of the ceiling; I've heard that
Home Depot has "foam boards" and I've heard of ideas regarding putting
up layers of rugs, etc.

I need clarification on how to and what materials to use, (as cheap as
possible), that I could affix, screw in or whatever to the ceiling and
possibly something on the walls (?) that would successfully reduce the
amount of noise.

If you have specifics regarding materials, posting a link to Home Depot
web pages would be helpful.

http://www.homedepot.com

Otherwise, the general name of a material is good enough.


It's a rental, so I can't go crazy with marring the ceiling. But I
guess I could put in screws that can later be filled in.

I am just going to do something to the bedroom only; roughly a 20 ft.
by 12 ft area.

Whatever ideas people have; don't worry about how it will look; I could
always drape something over whatever work is there.

Thanks A LOT for any input.

Forget about foam board or fabric on the ceiling. Both big hazards in a

fire. The fumes from the foam can kill, and both will wick any flames to
engulf the whole room in seconds. I second what others have said about white
noise generators, or earplugs. Think of it as motivation to move. I live in
a house now, but did 20+ years in an apartment, always ground floor. But I
am half-deaf in one ear, so I would just put my good ear into the pillow.
Yes, I had to buy a Real Loud alarm clock, and still often slept through it,
unless I happened to roll over in the night.

aem sends...
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