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Permittivity and Permeability Constants of Vacuum
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Sue...
science forum Guru


Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 2684

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Permittivity and Permeability Constants of Vacuum Reply with quote

GSS wrote:
Quote:
Permittivity (eps_0) and Permeability (mu_0) Constants of Vacuum
represent fundamental characteristics or fundamental properties of the
physical space or vacuum. For detailed presentation of this notion,
kindly refer to,

http://www.geocities.com/gurcharn_sandhu/htm_art/eps_mu.html

GSS

Good page! :-)

It. should be required reading for someone in the market
for more than just a few cubic metres of 377 ohm
'free space'.

Henri Wilson is selling some space at 0 ohms and
infinity that doesn't reflect. Marvelous stuff! . ;-)

I am not placing an order for any 'till it is appropriately
discounted for all the ohms the manufacturer leaves out.

Sue...
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GSS
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Permittivity and Permeability Constants of Vacuum Reply with quote

Sue... wrote:
Quote:
GSS wrote:
Permittivity (eps_0) and Permeability (mu_0) Constants of Vacuum
represent fundamental characteristics or fundamental properties of the
physical space or vacuum. For detailed presentation of this notion,
kindly refer to,

http://www.geocities.com/gurcharn_sandhu/htm_art/eps_mu.html

GSS

Good page! :-)

It. should be required reading for someone in the market
for more than just a few cubic metres of 377 ohm
'free space'.

Henri Wilson is selling some space at 0 ohms and
infinity that doesn't reflect. Marvelous stuff! . ;-)

I am not placing an order for any 'till it is appropriately
discounted for all the ohms the manufacturer leaves out.

Sue...

But how much 'space' does a person really need?
Does it depend on one's real 'potential'?
Or does it depend on what 'signal' one wants to convey?

GSS
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Mandy Meson
science forum beginner


Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Permittivity and Permeability Constants of Vacuum Reply with quote

"GSS" <gurcharn_sandhu@yahoo.com>:

Quote:
But how much 'space' does a person really need?
Does it depend on one's real 'potential'?
Or does it depend on what 'signal' one wants to convey?

GSS

This is a social issue, and set by society.
For example small scale murders, like the one who killed a film maker
in my country, are put is a mall enclosed space (or cell) with 24/7 video
observation, while the big scale murderers, like for example GWBush, are put
in a big space (White House) with 24/7 video coverage.

One could then say that the permittivity depends on the current local
consensus.

This also goes for the 'signal' (bomb Iran versus bomb US).

Just a few miles make all the difference.

Rela Tiviti's fault.
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dda1
science forum Guru


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 762

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Permittivity and Permeability Constants of Vacuum Reply with quote

GSS wrote:


<all imbecility snipped>

Quote:
GSS

Self agrandizing word salad from persistent cretin Gurcharn Sandhu.
Many more such cretins like you in India?
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FrediFizzx
science forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 774

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Permittivity and Permeability Constants of Vacuum Reply with quote

"GSS" <gurcharn_sandhu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1150449153.146224.95300@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Permittivity (eps_0) and Permeability (mu_0) Constants of Vacuum
represent fundamental characteristics or fundamental properties of the
physical space or vacuum. For detailed presentation of this notion,
kindly refer to,

http://www.geocities.com/gurcharn_sandhu/htm_art/eps_mu.html

Quantum Vacuum Charge rules, baby! It ties it all together and explains
why eps0 and mu0 are real physical parameters in any system of units.

FrediFizzx
http://www.vacuum-physics.com
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Tom Roberts
science forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1399

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Permittivity and Permeability Constants of Vacuum Reply with quote

GSS wrote:
Quote:
Permittivity (eps_0) and Permeability (mu_0) Constants of Vacuum
represent fundamental characteristics or fundamental properties of the
physical space or vacuum.

No they don't. In modern physics they are merely units conversion
factors which can be set to 1 by an appropriate choice of units.
Actually permeability is often set to 1/4pi....


Tom Roberts
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FrediFizzx
science forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 774

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Permittivity and Permeability Constants of Vacuum Reply with quote

"Tom Roberts" <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:TIEkg.63333$4L1.61113@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
Quote:
GSS wrote:
Permittivity (eps_0) and Permeability (mu_0) Constants of Vacuum
represent fundamental characteristics or fundamental properties of
the
physical space or vacuum.

No they don't. In modern physics they are merely units conversion
factors which can be set to 1 by an appropriate choice of units.
Actually permeability is often set to 1/4pi....

Permeability to 1/4pi? What unit system is that? And I sure would like
to see in which unit system they are set to 1. Wink They actually are
properties of the quantum "vacuum".

FrediFizzx
http://www.vacuum-physics.com
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Sorcerer1
science forum Guru


Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 410

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Permittivity and Permeability Constants of Vacuum Reply with quote

"FrediFizzx" <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4fgkeeF1j1qg6U1@individual.net...
| "Tom Roberts" <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
| news:TIEkg.63333$4L1.61113@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
| > GSS wrote:
| > > Permittivity (eps_0) and Permeability (mu_0) Constants of Vacuum
| > > represent fundamental characteristics or fundamental properties of
| the
| > > physical space or vacuum.
| >
| > No they don't. In modern physics they are merely units conversion
| > factors which can be set to 1 by an appropriate choice of units.
| > Actually permeability is often set to 1/4pi....
|
| Permeability to 1/4pi? What unit system is that? And I sure would like
| to see in which unit system they are set to 1. Wink They actually are
| properties of the quantum "vacuum".
|
| FrediFizzx


http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Lucent/Roberts.htm

(you'll be next)

Androcles.
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Sorcerer1
science forum Guru


Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 410

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Permittivity and Permeability Constants of Vacuum Reply with quote

"Tom Roberts" <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:TIEkg.63333$4L1.61113@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
| GSS wrote:
| > Permittivity (eps_0) and Permeability (mu_0) Constants of Vacuum
| > represent fundamental characteristics or fundamental properties of the
| > physical space or vacuum.
|
| No they don't. In modern physics they are merely units conversion
| factors which can be set to 1 by an appropriate choice of units.
| Actually permeability is often set to 1/4pi....
|
|
| Tom Roberts

http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Lucent/Roberts.htm

Androcles
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Phineas T Puddleduck
science forum Guru


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 759

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Permittivity and Permeability Constants of Vacuum Reply with quote

In article <uqFkg.190328$8W1.183623@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Sorcerer <Headmaster@hogwarts.physics_a> wrote:

Quote:
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Lucent/Roberts.htm

Wow - you actually EXPECT to be able to see an acretion disc of
diameter lightyears from galactic distances?

I kept you out of my killfile for giggles but after reading your
website, in you go *PLONK*

And british too. Sigh.

--
The greatest enemy of science is pseudoscience.

Jaffa cakes. Sweet delicious orangey jaffa goodness, and an abject lesson why
parroting information from the web will not teach you cosmology.

Official emperor of sci.physics. Please pay no attention to my butt poking
forward, it is expanding.

Relf's Law?
"Bullshit repeated to the limit of infinity asymptotically approachs
the odour of roses."
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srp
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 198

PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Permittivity and Permeability Constants of Vacuum Reply with quote

Tom Roberts a écrit :
Quote:
GSS wrote:
Permittivity (eps_0) and Permeability (mu_0) Constants of Vacuum
represent fundamental characteristics or fundamental properties of the
physical space or vacuum.

No they don't. In modern physics they are merely units conversion
factors which can be set to 1 by an appropriate choice of units.
Actually permeability is often set to 1/4pi....


Tom Roberts

To my knowledge, in SI, eps_0 can be set to 1/(4 pi c^2 10^-7)

André Michaud
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FrediFizzx
science forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 774

PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Permittivity and Permeability Constants of Vacuum Reply with quote

"Sorcerer" <Headmaster@hogwarts.physics_a> wrote in message
news:uqFkg.190328$8W1.183623@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
Quote:

"FrediFizzx" <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4fgkeeF1j1qg6U1@individual.net...
| "Tom Roberts" <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
| news:TIEkg.63333$4L1.61113@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
| > GSS wrote:
| > > Permittivity (eps_0) and Permeability (mu_0) Constants of Vacuum
| > > represent fundamental characteristics or fundamental properties
of
| the
| > > physical space or vacuum.
|
| > No they don't. In modern physics they are merely units conversion
| > factors which can be set to 1 by an appropriate choice of units.
| > Actually permeability is often set to 1/4pi....
|
| Permeability to 1/4pi? What unit system is that? And I sure would
like
| to see in which unit system they are set to 1. Wink They actually
are
| properties of the quantum "vacuum".
|
| FrediFizzx


http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Lucent/Roberts.htm

(you'll be next)

Go for it ya handle-stealin' freakin' moronic jackass and slime-dog
belly-crawler. Do you really think anyone important cares about your
petty assertions? ROTFLMAO! Everyone here knows you are a moronic
troll polluting the groups. You really should take my advice,

http://www.vacuum-physics.com/upload/nice.jpg

Take it to alt.flame; they got some pros over there that will put you to
shame.

FrediFizzx... out

Quantum Vacuum Charge papers;
http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.pdf
or postscript
http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.ps
http://www.arxiv.org/abs/physics/0601110
http://www.vacuum-physics.com
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John C. Polasek
science forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 321

PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Permittivity and Permeability Constants of Vacuum Reply with quote

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:06:36 GMT, srp <srp2@globetrotter.net> wrote:

Quote:
Tom Roberts a écrit :
GSS wrote:
Permittivity (eps_0) and Permeability (mu_0) Constants of Vacuum
represent fundamental characteristics or fundamental properties of the
physical space or vacuum.

No they don't. In modern physics they are merely units conversion
factors which can be set to 1 by an appropriate choice of units.
Actually permeability is often set to 1/4pi....


Tom Roberts

To my knowledge, in SI, eps_0 can be set to 1/(4 pi c^2 10^-7)

André Michaud
Why do you say that Andre? To denominate eps0 in terms of c^-2 , I

have in Eq. 5-35 of my book
eps0 = e^2/Lmc^2 = 8.8e-12 Farad/meter
where L is the electron-positron cell size 3.54e-14m
which comes down to
e^2/eps0*L = mc^2.
Is that of any use?
JP
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FrediFizzx
science forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 774

PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Permittivity and Permeability Constants of Vacuum Reply with quote

"John C. Polasek" <jpolasek@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:m1b892hrhs0pt28rs7q9op3ks8o42ivmfu@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:06:36 GMT, srp <srp2@globetrotter.net> wrote:

Tom Roberts a écrit :
GSS wrote:
Permittivity (eps_0) and Permeability (mu_0) Constants of Vacuum
represent fundamental characteristics or fundamental properties of
the
physical space or vacuum.

No they don't. In modern physics they are merely units conversion
factors which can be set to 1 by an appropriate choice of units.
Actually permeability is often set to 1/4pi....


Tom Roberts

To my knowledge, in SI, eps_0 can be set to 1/(4 pi c^2 10^-7)

André Michaud

Why do you say that Andre?

André and I had a big discussion about this recently. Guess you missed
it. Basically André is creating a new unit system based on SI that is
somewhat interesting.

Quote:
To denominate eps0 in terms of c^-2 , I
have in Eq. 5-35 of my book
eps0 = e^2/Lmc^2 = 8.8e-12 Farad/meter
where L is the electron-positron cell size 3.54e-14m
which comes down to
e^2/eps0*L = mc^2.
Is that of any use?
JP

L = e^2/(eps0 mc^2)

alpha = e^2/(4pi eps0 hbar c)

So your L is 2*alpha*lambda_C, lambda_C being electron compton
wavelength. I think it is too small for "our world" and too big for
Uspace. Your mistake is in using e^2 instead of 4pi*eps0*hbar*c,
quantum "vacuum" charge. L should just be,

L = hbar/m_e*c = lambda_C/2pi

for the cell size wrt our spacetime.

FrediFizzx

Quantum Vacuum Charge papers;
http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.pdf
or postscript
http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.ps
http://www.arxiv.org/abs/physics/0601110
http://www.vacuum-physics.com
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srp
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 198

PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Permittivity and Permeability Constants of Vacuum Reply with quote

John C. Polasek a écrit :
Quote:
On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:06:36 GMT, srp <srp2@globetrotter.net> wrote:

Tom Roberts a écrit :
GSS wrote:
Permittivity (eps_0) and Permeability (mu_0) Constants of Vacuum
represent fundamental characteristics or fundamental properties of the
physical space or vacuum.
No they don't. In modern physics they are merely units conversion
factors which can be set to 1 by an appropriate choice of units.
Actually permeability is often set to 1/4pi....


Tom Roberts
To my knowledge, in SI, eps_0 can be set to 1/(4 pi c^2 10^-7)

André Michaud
Why do you say that Andre?

This is simply an alternate definition of eps_0. The corresponding
mu_0 is = 4 pi 10^-7. From Stratton. I also saw it used in various
other refs, Resnick and Halliday for example.

Quote:
To denominate eps0 in terms of c^-2 , I
have in Eq. 5-35 of my book
eps0 = e^2/Lmc^2 = 8.8e-12 Farad/meter
where L is the electron-positron cell size 3.54e-14m
which comes down to
e^2/eps0*L = mc^2.

Is that of any use?
JP

Well, in my model, your L2 = alpha lambda_C
and is what I named the integrated electron Compton wavelength
(your equation 4-5)
because it turns out to be the lower limit of integration of the
energy of a localized electron (from infinity down to r=r_e.

So, your L is twice that wavelength L = 2 L2

In my model, there is no need anymore for eps_0 nor mu_0.

When combined in a certain manner with the integrated wavelength,
they integrate to provide a transverse integrated amplitude from
which the energy of the particle can be calculated from transverse
acceleration without exceeding the speed of light.

For the electron rest energy, for example,

m_e c^2 = E_e = (e^2 10^-7) c^2/((lambda_C alpha)/(2 pi)) (joules)

In my model, joules define as (C^2 m)/s^2

André Michaud
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