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My hypothetical design of fusion-pumped lasers
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Sam Goldwasser
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Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:23 pm    Post subject: Re: My hypothetical design of fusion-pumped lasers Reply with quote

"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> writes:

Quote:
Sam Goldwasser wrote:
"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> writes:

redbelly wrote:
"redbelly" <redbelly98@yahoo.com> writes:
Antimatter is far more interesting than fusion. Fusion is boring as
hell by comparison.


Sam Goldwasser wrote:
Why? We can make antimatter in controlled quantities. We can't do the
same with fusion. :)


For that matter why not pump with solar power, produced by fusion
within the sun? The zing and excitement of nuclear fusion, delivered
directly to your front doorstep! :-)

Mark

Great idea. Problem is, it will only work during the day, and that too
the clouds shouldn't cover the sunshine.

Hopefully, lenses and crystals can be used to concentrated enough
sunlight to pump the lasing medium.

No electricity required! Well, except for the medium's atomic electrons
changing energy levels.


They tried that in the earliest days of lasers. Pumping efficiency is
terrible. The Sun doesn't know that it's supposed to concentrate the
energy in specific wavelengths convenient for laser pumpoing. :)

Sun is mostly white light. Whats wrong with that? Is there anyway to do
purely-optical
pumping????????????????????????????????????????????????????

That's exactly what's wrong with it. :)

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
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Lostgallifreyan
science forum beginner


Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: My hypothetical design of fusion-pumped lasers Reply with quote

"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in
news:1150485081.943093.187430@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

Quote:
Sun is mostly white light. Whats wrong with that? Is there anyway to
do purely-optical
pumping????????????????????????????????????????????????????


Like Sam said, most laser gain stages use materials that only absorb a very
limited wavelength. There is one though, iodine, that is often chosen
because of its many lines. It will output on just as many though, given the
chance.

In the end, what you're left with is a need to convert energy efficiently.
If you can do that it doesn't matter nearly as much what form you start
with. If you want exciting lasers, with high efficiency as well as a large
possible range of output wavelengths at high power, the last thing you
should be doing is to rule out electricity, because that's the best chance
of getting them.

--
----------------------------------------
http://save.nazanin.googlepages.com/home
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Radium
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: My hypothetical design of fusion-pumped lasers Reply with quote

Sam Goldwasser wrote:
Quote:
"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> writes:

redbelly wrote:
"redbelly" <redbelly98@yahoo.com> writes:
Antimatter is far more interesting than fusion. Fusion is boring as
hell by comparison.


Sam Goldwasser wrote:
Why? We can make antimatter in controlled quantities. We can't do the
same with fusion. :)


For that matter why not pump with solar power, produced by fusion
within the sun? The zing and excitement of nuclear fusion, delivered
directly to your front doorstep! :-)

Mark

Great idea. Problem is, it will only work during the day, and that too
the clouds shouldn't cover the sunshine.

Hopefully, lenses and crystals can be used to concentrated enough
sunlight to pump the lasing medium.

No electricity required! Well, except for the medium's atomic electrons
changing energy levels.


They tried that in the earliest days of lasers. Pumping efficiency is
terrible. The Sun doesn't know that it's supposed to concentrate the
energy in specific wavelengths convenient for laser pumpoing. Smile

Sun is mostly white light. Whats wrong with that? Is there anyway to do
purely-optical
pumping????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Quote:

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.
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Radium
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: My hypothetical design of fusion-pumped lasers Reply with quote

Lostgallifreyan wrote:
Quote:
Sam Goldwasser <sam@saul.cis.upenn.edu> wrote in
news:6w3be59i86.fsf@saul.cis.upenn.edu:

"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> writes:

redbelly wrote:
"redbelly" <redbelly98@yahoo.com> writes:
Antimatter is far more interesting than fusion. Fusion is
boring as hell by comparison.


Sam Goldwasser wrote:
Why? We can make antimatter in controlled quantities. We can't
do the same with fusion. :)


For that matter why not pump with solar power, produced by fusion
within the sun? The zing and excitement of nuclear fusion,
delivered directly to your front doorstep! :-)

Mark

Great idea. Problem is, it will only work during the day, and that
too the clouds shouldn't cover the sunshine.

Hopefully, lenses and crystals can be used to concentrated enough
sunlight to pump the lasing medium.

No electricity required! Well, except for the medium's atomic
electrons changing energy levels.

They tried that in the earliest days of lasers. Pumping efficiency is
terrible. The Sun doesn't know that it's supposed to concentrate the
energy in specific wavelengths convenient for laser pumpoing. :)



Ok, so what if we convert? Solar energy to superheat water to steam, use
that to drive a turbine, store energy in a flywheel so it can be used at
nights too, then generate DC power coverted at >90% efficiency with
electronic charge pumps to provide a controlled current for lots of diodes?

Too much electricity. I was looking for something more directly fusion
or optical.

Quote:


That might seem boring though, it's too close to what we do already. Smile

LOL

Quote:


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Radium
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: My hypothetical design of fusion-pumped lasers Reply with quote

Sam Goldwasser wrote:
Quote:
"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> writes:

redbelly wrote:
"redbelly" <redbelly98@yahoo.com> writes:
Antimatter is far more interesting than fusion. Fusion is boring as
hell by comparison.


Sam Goldwasser wrote:
Why? We can make antimatter in controlled quantities. We can't do the
same with fusion. :)


For that matter why not pump with solar power, produced by fusion
within the sun? The zing and excitement of nuclear fusion, delivered
directly to your front doorstep! :-)

Mark

Great idea. Problem is, it will only work during the day, and that too
the clouds shouldn't cover the sunshine.

Hopefully, lenses and crystals can be used to concentrated enough
sunlight to pump the lasing medium.

No electricity required! Well, except for the medium's atomic electrons
changing energy levels.

They tried that in the earliest days of lasers. Pumping efficiency is
terrible. The Sun doesn't know that it's supposed to concentrate the
energy in specific wavelengths convenient for laser pumpoing. :)

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

So I guess I am back at square one. IOW, use lasers pumped by
tritium-deuterium fusion.
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Lostgallifreyan
science forum beginner


Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: My hypothetical design of fusion-pumped lasers Reply with quote

Sam Goldwasser <sam@saul.cis.upenn.edu> wrote in
news:6w3be59i86.fsf@saul.cis.upenn.edu:

Quote:
"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> writes:

redbelly wrote:
"redbelly" <redbelly98@yahoo.com> writes:
Antimatter is far more interesting than fusion. Fusion is
boring as hell by comparison.


Sam Goldwasser wrote:
Why? We can make antimatter in controlled quantities. We can't
do the same with fusion. :)


For that matter why not pump with solar power, produced by fusion
within the sun? The zing and excitement of nuclear fusion,
delivered directly to your front doorstep! :-)

Mark

Great idea. Problem is, it will only work during the day, and that
too the clouds shouldn't cover the sunshine.

Hopefully, lenses and crystals can be used to concentrated enough
sunlight to pump the lasing medium.

No electricity required! Well, except for the medium's atomic
electrons changing energy levels.

They tried that in the earliest days of lasers. Pumping efficiency is
terrible. The Sun doesn't know that it's supposed to concentrate the
energy in specific wavelengths convenient for laser pumpoing. :)


Ok, so what if we convert? Solar energy to superheat water to steam, use
that to drive a turbine, store energy in a flywheel so it can be used at
nights too, then generate DC power coverted at >90% efficiency with
electronic charge pumps to provide a controlled current for lots of diodes?

That might seem boring though, it's too close to what we do already. :)


--
----------------------------------------
http://save.nazanin.googlepages.com/home
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Sam Goldwasser
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: My hypothetical design of fusion-pumped lasers Reply with quote

"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> writes:

Quote:
redbelly wrote:
"redbelly" <redbelly98@yahoo.com> writes:
Antimatter is far more interesting than fusion. Fusion is boring as
hell by comparison.


Sam Goldwasser wrote:
Why? We can make antimatter in controlled quantities. We can't do the
same with fusion. :)


For that matter why not pump with solar power, produced by fusion
within the sun? The zing and excitement of nuclear fusion, delivered
directly to your front doorstep! :-)

Mark

Great idea. Problem is, it will only work during the day, and that too
the clouds shouldn't cover the sunshine.

Hopefully, lenses and crystals can be used to concentrated enough
sunlight to pump the lasing medium.

No electricity required! Well, except for the medium's atomic electrons
changing energy levels.

They tried that in the earliest days of lasers. Pumping efficiency is
terrible. The Sun doesn't know that it's supposed to concentrate the
energy in specific wavelengths convenient for laser pumpoing. :)

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.
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Radium
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: My hypothetical design of fusion-pumped lasers Reply with quote

redbelly wrote:
Quote:
"redbelly" <redbelly98@yahoo.com> writes:
Antimatter is far more interesting than fusion. Fusion is boring as
hell by comparison.


Sam Goldwasser wrote:
Why? We can make antimatter in controlled quantities. We can't do the
same with fusion. :)


For that matter why not pump with solar power, produced by fusion
within the sun? The zing and excitement of nuclear fusion, delivered
directly to your front doorstep! :-)

Mark

Great idea. Problem is, it will only work during the day, and that too
the clouds shouldn't cover the sunshine.

Hopefully, lenses and crystals can be used to concentrated enough
sunlight to pump the lasing medium.

No electricity required! Well, except for the medium's atomic electrons
changing energy levels.
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redbelly
science forum beginner


Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:59 pm    Post subject: Re: My hypothetical design of fusion-pumped lasers Reply with quote

Quote:
"redbelly" <redbelly98@yahoo.com> writes:
Antimatter is far more interesting than fusion. Fusion is boring as
hell by comparison.


Sam Goldwasser wrote:
Quote:
Why? We can make antimatter in controlled quantities. We can't do the
same with fusion. Smile


For that matter why not pump with solar power, produced by fusion
within the sun? The zing and excitement of nuclear fusion, delivered
directly to your front doorstep! :-)

Mark
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mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu
science forum Guru


Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 434

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:30 am    Post subject: Re: My hypothetical design of fusion-pumped lasers Reply with quote

In article <6w1wtp6gkv.fsf@saul.cis.upenn.edu>, Sam Goldwasser <sam@saul.cis.upenn.edu> writes:
Quote:
"redbelly" <redbelly98@yahoo.com> writes:

Radium wrote:

Neutron-antineutron as well as proton-antiproton annihilation give out
more energy than nuclear fusion. However, antimatter is far more
difficult to make than fusion.

Why, all of a sudden, is difficulty a concern?

Antimatter is far more interesting than fusion. Fusion is boring as
hell by comparison.

Why? We can make antimatter in controlled quantities. We can't do the
same with fusion. :)

Oh, we sure can. Not that this is of much use.


Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
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Sam Goldwasser
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:53 am    Post subject: Re: My hypothetical design of fusion-pumped lasers Reply with quote

"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> writes:

Quote:
redbelly wrote:
Radium wrote:

Neutron-antineutron as well as proton-antiproton annihilation give out
more energy than nuclear fusion. However, antimatter is far more
difficult to make than fusion.

Why, all of a sudden, is difficulty a concern?

The extent to which antimatter is more difficult to make than fusion is
exponentially greater than the extent to which fusion is more difficult
than electricity.

The high energy physics types make antimatter all the time. What's
the problem? :)

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.
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Sam Goldwasser
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:21 am    Post subject: Re: My hypothetical design of fusion-pumped lasers Reply with quote

"redbelly" <redbelly98@yahoo.com> writes:

Quote:
Radium wrote:

Neutron-antineutron as well as proton-antiproton annihilation give out
more energy than nuclear fusion. However, antimatter is far more
difficult to make than fusion.

Why, all of a sudden, is difficulty a concern?

Antimatter is far more interesting than fusion. Fusion is boring as
hell by comparison.

Why? We can make antimatter in controlled quantities. We can't do the
same with fusion. :)

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.
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Radium
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:10 am    Post subject: Re: My hypothetical design of fusion-pumped lasers Reply with quote

redbelly wrote:
Quote:
Radium wrote:

Neutron-antineutron as well as proton-antiproton annihilation give out
more energy than nuclear fusion. However, antimatter is far more
difficult to make than fusion.

Why, all of a sudden, is difficulty a concern?

The extent to which antimatter is more difficult to make than fusion is
exponentially greater than the extent to which fusion is more difficult
than electricity.


Quote:
Antimatter is far more interesting than fusion. Fusion is boring as
hell by comparison.

Mark

LOL
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redbelly
science forum beginner


Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:50 pm    Post subject: Re: My hypothetical design of fusion-pumped lasers Reply with quote

Radium wrote:

Quote:
Neutron-antineutron as well as proton-antiproton annihilation give out
more energy than nuclear fusion. However, antimatter is far more
difficult to make than fusion.

Why, all of a sudden, is difficulty a concern?

Antimatter is far more interesting than fusion. Fusion is boring as
hell by comparison.

Mark
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Radium
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:49 pm    Post subject: Re: My hypothetical design of fusion-pumped lasers Reply with quote

PD wrote:
Quote:
Radium wrote:
redbelly wrote:
Radium wrote:
Pooh Bear wrote:
Radium wrote:

Why not add a zing to life and use fusion instead of fission.

Why not try living in the real world ?

Graham

What is so unreal about fusion-pumped lasers? If pumping can be done by
fission, then why not with fusion??

Even if it were possible, for people to get interested in (and funding)
to build one it would have to be either more efficient or somehow
produce a better laser beam than what already exists.

Mark

Fusion lasers are more interesting than fission lasers. Fission sucks.

Good reason to scribble out a keen-o proposal of one from your Kenner
Half-Bake Oven. Except your light bulb is out.

Personally, I think an antimatter-matter laser is *much* more
interesting than fusion. Fusion is dangerous, sweaty, and stubborn.
Antimatter-matter just runs on its own. Plug-n-play. Like an iPod.

PD

Neutron-antineutron as well as proton-antiproton annihilation give out
more energy than nuclear fusion. However, antimatter is far more
difficult to make than fusion.
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