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Jerry
science forum Guru
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 574
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 Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:20 am Post subject:
Re: Anisotropy In The Gravity Force Proven.
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Max Keon wrote:
| Quote: | "Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1151842121.171666.68460@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
1) Are the photos in ganmovy.html of smoke injected while the
housing is IN MOTION?
Yes. In reasonably constant motion. It will be constant next run.
What is the rotational velocity of the housing,
Close to 15 r/sec.
and can you estimate the exit velocity of the smoke?
For this test it was necessary to quickly pump a reasonable quantity
of smoke into the chamber so that it would easily be detected by
the CCD camera when it was located at the furthest chamber in the
anticlockwise direction from the smoke injection point, as viewed
from the strobe light end. The smoke flow rate was set at around
200 mm/sec.
2) Chamber 1 is where the J tube exits, correct?
Yes.
3) Chambers 8 and 2 flank the J tube, correct?
Yes.
4) Smoke from chamber 1 pushes both ahead, into chamber 8, as well
as behind, into chamber 2, correct?
That's hardly surprising considering the 12 degree, clockwise, smoke
injection angle. Centrifugal forces quickly send the smoke to the
outer boundary of the housing chamber, where the smoke then
naturally spreads around the inner rim in both directions. One would
expect the smoke to spread more in the pointing direction of the
smoke injection though, which is clockwise. That clearly doesn't
happen.
http://www.optusnet.com.au/~maxkeon/8g.jpg shows a very dense smoke
cloud which has entered the chamber from the adjoining chamber where
the smoke injection took place. That was almost as far it progressed
before it was halted and sent back in the anticlockwise direction.
The smoke trail arrived from the anticlockwise direction four and a
half seconds later.
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Is the housing air-tight, so that the pressure goes up when
you pump the smoke in, or do you have exit ports for pressure
relief?
Jerry |
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Max Keon
science forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Anisotropy In The Gravity Force Proven.
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"Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1151922042.110611.38400@h44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Max Keon wrote:
"Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1151842121.171666.68460@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
1) Are the photos in ganmovy.html of smoke injected while the
housing is IN MOTION?
Yes. In reasonably constant motion. It will be constant next run.
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I've decided not to add the additional clutter and precisely
control the rotation rate because slight variation are very much
inconsequential. After a time, the induction driven rotor reaches
a fairly stable rotation rate, but that still slowly increases as
everything warms up. At 15 rev/sec the rotation rate would need to
increase by one rev in five seconds to explain the counterclockwise
rotation rate of the air, relative to its housing. And that would
only explain the affect for five seconds.
------
------
| Quote: | http://www.optusnet.com.au/~maxkeon/8g.jpg shows a very dense smoke
cloud which has entered the chamber from the adjoining chamber where
the smoke injection took place. That was almost as far it progressed
before it was halted and sent back in the anticlockwise direction.
The smoke trail arrived from the anticlockwise direction four and a
half seconds later.
Is the housing air-tight, so that the pressure goes up when
you pump the smoke in, or do you have exit ports for pressure
relief?
|
The exit port is a small hole drilled through the center of the
drive side axle shaft.
-----
Max Keon |
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Jerry
science forum Guru
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 574
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:29 am Post subject:
Re: Anisotropy In The Gravity Force Proven.
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Max Keon wrote:
| Quote: | "Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1151922042.110611.38400@h44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Max Keon wrote:
"Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1151842121.171666.68460@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
1) Are the photos in ganmovy.html of smoke injected while the
housing is IN MOTION?
Yes. In reasonably constant motion. It will be constant next run.
I've decided not to add the additional clutter and precisely
control the rotation rate because slight variation are very much
inconsequential. After a time, the induction driven rotor reaches
a fairly stable rotation rate, but that still slowly increases as
everything warms up. At 15 rev/sec the rotation rate would need to
increase by one rev in five seconds to explain the counterclockwise
rotation rate of the air, relative to its housing. And that would
only explain the affect for five seconds.
------
------
http://www.optusnet.com.au/~maxkeon/8g.jpg shows a very dense smoke
cloud which has entered the chamber from the adjoining chamber where
the smoke injection took place. That was almost as far it progressed
before it was halted and sent back in the anticlockwise direction.
The smoke trail arrived from the anticlockwise direction four and a
half seconds later.
Is the housing air-tight, so that the pressure goes up when
you pump the smoke in, or do you have exit ports for pressure
relief?
The exit port is a small hole drilled through the center of the
drive side axle shaft.
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Given that you have an entry port for air, it is absolutely essential
that the remainder of the apparatus be completely gas tight!!!!
At the speeds that you are rotating the unit, the centrifugal force
at the rim amounts to over 150 gee's, so you have a very significant
pressure difference between center and perimeter which can drive air
flow from the center outwards. As a result of the Coriolis effect,
even a slight air flow from center to perimeter will result in the
setting up of a complex pattern of "inertial circles" within the
housing. In other words, any leakage will result in setting up a
network of cyclones inside your housing that will drive transverse
air flow!
A blast of smoke introduced into the perimeter will also induce bulk
Coriolis movements because of the net displacement of air towards
the center. Introduction of large blasts of smoke will introduce
severe artifacts into your results! The velocity of the air as it
approaches the air vent in the center will reach high speeds!
I barely wanna even THINK about the complex patterns of air flow
that would be set up as you suddenly reverse the flow direction...
Remember that I've been remarking about "secondary effects" that
could be influencing your results and causing artifactual transverse
air flow? Centrifugal force-induced air flow is one of them! Coriolis
effect acting on large blasts of air is another! Think of the
turbulence patterns that you'd be creating!
Every joint between the components of your housing needs to be
gasketed and/or vacuum greased! And you need to keep the volume
of smoke introduced down to a minimum!
Jerry |
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Jerry
science forum Guru
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 574
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:36 am Post subject:
Re: Anisotropy In The Gravity Force Proven.
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Max Keon wrote:
| Quote: | And according to you, a smoke ring crashes to the ground like a
house brick.
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At 900 rpm and 150 gee's, that's -exactly- what will happen
in your apparatus.
Jerry |
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Jerry
science forum Guru
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 574
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject:
Re: Anisotropy In The Gravity Force Proven.
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Jerry wrote:
| Quote: | Max Keon wrote:
And according to you, a smoke ring crashes to the ground like a
house brick.
At 900 rpm and 150 gee's, that's -exactly- what will happen
in your apparatus.
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Max,
Since centrifugal effects go as the square of the rotational rate, I
strongly suggest that you cut the rotational rates that you employ
down to no more than 90 rpm, so that the centrifugal effects are cut
by two orders of magnitude.
It's hard enough interpreting your smoke patterns in terms of
Coriolis effect, without throwing in centrifugal force effects as
well.
Jerry |
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Max Keon
science forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:57 am Post subject:
Re: Anisotropy In The Gravity Force Proven.
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"Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1151980160.316384.88650@a14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Max Keon wrote:
"Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1151922042.110611.38400@h44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Max Keon wrote:
http://www.optusnet.com.au/~maxkeon/8g.jpg shows a very dense smoke
cloud which has entered the chamber from the adjoining chamber where
the smoke injection took place. That was almost as far it progressed
before it was halted and sent back in the anticlockwise direction.
The smoke trail arrived from the anticlockwise direction four and a
half seconds later.
Is the housing air-tight, so that the pressure goes up when
you pump the smoke in, or do you have exit ports for pressure
relief?
The exit port is a small hole drilled through the center of the
drive side axle shaft.
Given that you have an entry port for air, it is absolutely essential
that the remainder of the apparatus be completely gas tight!!!!
At the speeds that you are rotating the unit, the centrifugal force
at the rim amounts to over 150 gee's, so you have a very significant
pressure difference between center and perimeter which can drive air
flow from the center outwards. As a result of the Coriolis effect,
even a slight air flow from center to perimeter will result in the
setting up of a complex pattern of "inertial circles" within the
housing. In other words, any leakage will result in setting up a
network of cyclones inside your housing that will drive transverse
air flow!
A blast of smoke introduced into the perimeter will also induce bulk
Coriolis movements because of the net displacement of air towards
the center. Introduction of large blasts of smoke will introduce
severe artifacts into your results! The velocity of the air as it
approaches the air vent in the center will reach high speeds!
|
I have just tested the latest upgrade, where the smoke is introduced
at the surface of the inner rim of the housing, through the same
tube type, which is now directing the smoke flow 6 degrees off the
rotation axis in the direction of clockwise rotation, as viewed from
the strobe light. The smoke "blast" progresses toward the housing
center no further than the width of the window (19mm) before
centrifugal forces send it back to the inner rim.
The only time the smoke can be affected by the moving air mass is
during its excursion through the moving air mass across the window
width and back to the rim, where the air flow was restrained by
contact with the housing walls. A point that is well proven when
the smoke flow is minimised. The smoke spreads uniformly across
the rim surface, forming a puddle around the entrance point. Even
so, a very faint whisp of smoke seems to be coming off the trailing
edge relative to the rotation direction. But I'll put that down to
experimenter bias for now.
Any momentum gained from the short encounter with the moving air
as it travels the return journey across the window width is carried
back to the rim.
The 6 degree smoke pointing direction bias for the introduced smoke
which is now traveling at a higher tangential velocity than in the
previous test, was intended to counteract the air flow completely.
That was achieved by slowing the smoke injection rate slightly.
There was then no apparent difference in smoke flow in either
direction around the rim.
The next stage was to reverse the drive direction. Much the same
result was achieved as in the previous test, when the smoke was
introduced within the air stream, through the J tube. But the
thickness of the smoke layer traveling around the rim was reduced
slightly.
| Quote: | I barely wanna even THINK about the complex patterns of air flow
that would be set up as you suddenly reverse the flow direction...
Remember that I've been remarking about "secondary effects" that
could be influencing your results and causing artifactual transverse
air flow? Centrifugal force-induced air flow is one of them! Coriolis
effect acting on large blasts of air is another! Think of the
turbulence patterns that you'd be creating!
Every joint between the components of your housing needs to be
gasketed and/or vacuum greased! And you need to keep the volume
of smoke introduced down to a minimum!
|
You do have a tendency to choose wording which emphasizes your
point, almost to the point of blatant exaggeration. The "150 gee's"
you mentioned in another reply amounts to stuffall pressure. If
there was as much as .0066 grams of air inside the housing, that
would amount to 1 gram forcing on the entire surface area of the
inner rim.
And don't forget how insignificant the air molecule is when compared
with the ENORMOUSLY MASSIVE smokeborne particles (ignoring volume
relationship of course). Air turbulence within the housing is hardly
likely to slow their ENORMOUS momentum when they are jammed against
the housing wall, where the air flow was minimumal anyway.
There is still one test to do before I tip the device at 90 degrees,
and that is to seal off the periferal leaks which allow the smoke
to seep out of the chamber. Thus allowing slowly injected smoke to
form a puddle which will deepen around the smoke injection point and
flow outward around the inner rim. Then I can observe which way the
ocean waves that are pushed up by the passing wind are moving. I'll
think about sealing the center vent hole as well, just in case there
is still a greater than expected air mass seeping through the outer
chamber.
-----
Max Keon |
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Jerry
science forum Guru
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 574
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:41 am Post subject:
Re: Anisotropy In The Gravity Force Proven.
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Max Keon wrote:
| Quote: | There is still one test to do before I tip the device at 90 degrees,
and that is to seal off the periferal leaks which allow the smoke
to seep out of the chamber. Thus allowing slowly injected smoke to
form a puddle which will deepen around the smoke injection point and
flow outward around the inner rim. Then I can observe which way the
ocean waves that are pushed up by the passing wind are moving. I'll
think about sealing the center vent hole as well, just in case there
is still a greater than expected air mass seeping through the outer
chamber.
|
Obviously I didn't explain things clearly enough.
The smoke that you introduce does not share the same momentum as
the bulk air mass. Regardless of the direction of injection, the
injected smoke will develop counter-rotational swirls as a result
of the Coriolis effect. A large volume of injected smoke will
exhibit artifactual counter-rotational motions until friction
forces its motions to match that of the bulk air mass.
To properly act in its role as a tracer, the volume of introduced
smoke must be strictly limited.
Jerry |
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Max Keon
science forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:06 pm Post subject:
Re: Anisotropy In The Gravity Force Proven.
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"Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1152081705.755835.139960@v61g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Max Keon wrote:
There is still one test to do before I tip the device at 90 degrees,
and that is to seal off the periferal leaks which allow the smoke
to seep out of the chamber. Thus allowing slowly injected smoke to
form a puddle which will deepen around the smoke injection point and
flow outward around the inner rim. Then I can observe which way the
ocean waves that are pushed up by the passing wind are moving. I'll
think about sealing the center vent hole as well, just in case there
is still a greater than expected air mass seeping through the outer
chamber.
Obviously I didn't explain things clearly enough.
The smoke that you introduce does not share the same momentum as
the bulk air mass.
|
Maybe I didn't explain things clearly. At any point along the smoke
tube which connects between the center and the inner rim of the
housing the tangential velocity of the contained smoke is exactly
the same as that of the air adjacent to the tube (assuming no
anisotropy).
I intend to send the smoke to a cavity in the rim of the housing,
which will fill with smoke to slowly flow over the edges, gently
flowing around the entire inner circumference in both directions,
causing very little disturbance. Anyway, there's still plenty of
time to allow everything to settle down when the desired smoke
depth is reached and the smoke flow turned off.
l Inner l l
Housing rim ->l--l l Housing
Smoke tube l---------------------- l l outer
----> l---------------------- l l surface
centerline l--l l
l l l
But you're not expecting evidence of an anisotropy, so why concern
yourself needlessly?
| Quote: | Regardless of the direction of injection, the
injected smoke will develop counter-rotational swirls as a result
of the Coriolis effect. A large volume of injected smoke will
exhibit artifactual counter-rotational motions until friction
forces its motions to match that of the bulk air mass.
To properly act in its role as a tracer, the volume of introduced
smoke must be strictly limited.
Jerry
|
-----
Max Keon |
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Jerry
science forum Guru
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 574
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject:
Re: Anisotropy In The Gravity Force Proven.
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Max Keon wrote:
| Quote: | "Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1152081705.755835.139960@v61g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Max Keon wrote:
There is still one test to do before I tip the device at 90 degrees,
and that is to seal off the periferal leaks which allow the smoke
to seep out of the chamber. Thus allowing slowly injected smoke to
form a puddle which will deepen around the smoke injection point and
flow outward around the inner rim. Then I can observe which way the
ocean waves that are pushed up by the passing wind are moving. I'll
think about sealing the center vent hole as well, just in case there
is still a greater than expected air mass seeping through the outer
chamber.
Obviously I didn't explain things clearly enough.
The smoke that you introduce does not share the same momentum as
the bulk air mass.
Maybe I didn't explain things clearly. At any point along the smoke
tube which connects between the center and the inner rim of the
housing the tangential velocity of the contained smoke is exactly
the same as that of the air adjacent to the tube (assuming no
anisotropy).
|
But it has a radial velocity. Hence the momentum of the
introduced smoke does not match that of the bulk air mass.
What is your point?
| Quote: | I intend to send the smoke to a cavity in the rim of the housing,
which will fill with smoke to slowly flow over the edges, gently
flowing around the entire inner circumference in both directions,
causing very little disturbance. Anyway, there's still plenty of
time to allow everything to settle down when the desired smoke
depth is reached and the smoke flow turned off.
l Inner l l
Housing rim ->l--l l Housing
Smoke tube l---------------------- l l outer
----> l---------------------- l l surface
centerline l--l l
l l l
But you're not expecting evidence of an anisotropy, so why concern
yourself needlessly?
Regardless of the direction of injection, the
injected smoke will develop counter-rotational swirls as a result
of the Coriolis effect. A large volume of injected smoke will
exhibit artifactual counter-rotational motions until friction
forces its motions to match that of the bulk air mass.
To properly act in its role as a tracer, the volume of introduced
smoke must be strictly limited.
|
Make absolutely sure that you have no leaks, or the
leaking air will induce the formation of vortexes.
And make sure you run the experiment both in the horizontal
and vertical orientations, or you will be running an uncontrolled
experiment.
Jerry |
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Jerry
science forum Guru
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 574
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:05 pm Post subject:
Re: Anisotropy In The Gravity Force Proven.
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Max Keon wrote:
| Quote: | But you're not expecting evidence of an anisotropy, so why concern
yourself needlessly?
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Because you are the sole "alternative thinker" in this newsgroup
with any chance at all of reforming. I have made you aware of the
pervasiveness of Coriolis effect in its ability to introduce
artifactual counter-rotary motions into the smoke stream. You are
sealing the apparatus as I asked, and you are apparently now aware
that you should not over-interpret transient flow patterns. Also, you
seem finally to be taking seriously the need to perform the control
experiment.
Jerry |
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Max Keon
science forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:32 am Post subject:
Re: Anisotropy In The Gravity Force Proven.
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"Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1152101813.693468.31240@a14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Max Keon wrote:
"Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1152081705.755835.139960@v61g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Max Keon wrote:
There is still one test to do before I tip the device at 90 degrees,
and that is to seal off the periferal leaks which allow the smoke
to seep out of the chamber. Thus allowing slowly injected smoke to
form a puddle which will deepen around the smoke injection point and
flow outward around the inner rim. Then I can observe which way the
ocean waves that are pushed up by the passing wind are moving. I'll
think about sealing the center vent hole as well, just in case there
is still a greater than expected air mass seeping through the outer
chamber.
Obviously I didn't explain things clearly enough.
The smoke that you introduce does not share the same momentum as
the bulk air mass.
Maybe I didn't explain things clearly. At any point along the smoke
tube which connects between the center and the inner rim of the
housing the tangential velocity of the contained smoke is exactly
the same as that of the air adjacent to the tube (assuming no
anisotropy).
But it has a radial velocity. Hence the momentum of the
introduced smoke does not match that of the bulk air mass.
What is your point?
|
I really don't think the minute smoke injection rate is going to
whiz the entire air mass around. It can be allowed a settling period
anyway.
| Quote: | I intend to send the smoke to a cavity in the rim of the housing,
which will fill with smoke to slowly flow over the edges, gently
flowing around the entire inner circumference in both directions,
causing very little disturbance. Anyway, there's still plenty of
time to allow everything to settle down when the desired smoke
depth is reached and the smoke flow turned off.
l Inner l l
Housing rim ->l--l l Housing
Smoke tube l---------------------- l l outer
----> l---------------------- l l surface
centerline l--l l
l l l
But you're not expecting evidence of an anisotropy, so why concern
yourself needlessly?
Regardless of the direction of injection, the
injected smoke will develop counter-rotational swirls as a result
of the Coriolis effect. A large volume of injected smoke will
exhibit artifactual counter-rotational motions until friction
forces its motions to match that of the bulk air mass.
To properly act in its role as a tracer, the volume of introduced
smoke must be strictly limited.
|
There is a problem with the described experiment however. The denser
smoke mass will constantly fall downward, and in doing so will be
driven in the direction of rotation. Regardless of whether or not
the action of gravity is constant on both the up and the down sides
of the rotating body, the up moving side of the housing is moving
at a faster rate relative to the falling smoke than the down moving
side. It's therefore possible that all I would see is standing
waves, or even wave crests retreating in the direction of rotation.
So I've decided to shelve it for a while, and proceed with the
original setup, where a small wisp of smoke is introduced in the
middle of the air mass via a straight tube. But this time the tube
will extend to the inner rim and the tube end sealed off. The smoke
will be delivered through a hole pointing directly in the direction
of rotation.
None of that will eliminate a Coriolis effect of course. But
that's of no consequence because it will be constant for both
the perpendicular and horizontal rotation planes.
| Quote: | Make absolutely sure that you have no leaks, or the
leaking air will induce the formation of vortexes.
|
It's probably important that I seal the central vent hole because
I'm attempting to compare the smoke paths for the two rotation
planes. The air mass needs to be as stable as possible before the
wisp of smoke is introduced. Although the smoke path difference
for the two planes would show up regardless. Nothing but the
rotation plane is changed.
-----
Max Keon |
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shuba
science forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 160
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:43 am Post subject:
Re: Anisotropy In The Gravity Force Proven.
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Max "krazy" Keon wrote:
| Quote: | It's probably important that I seal the central vent hole
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The important thing is to keeep trolling Jerry. If that means
sealing the hole, go for it.
---Tim Shuba--- |
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Jerry
science forum Guru
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 574
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:51 am Post subject:
Re: Anisotropy In The Gravity Force Proven.
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shuba wrote:
| Quote: | Max "krazy" Keon wrote:
It's probably important that I seal the central vent hole
The important thing is to keeep trolling Jerry. If that means
sealing the hole, go for it.
|
Actually, I rather admire Max. He is the only "alternative thinker"
in this newsgroup willing to put his theories to the test, investing
a considerable amount of time and money in the process. Of course,
he has tended to jump to false conclusions a lot, and in the past he
has had the habit of dismissing criticism of his experimental setups.
But our present exchange of critical ideas has been different, and I
am pleased that he now understands the importance of running control
experiments.
So far as I can tell, Max has been scrupulously honest in his
reporting of his experimental results. He is biased, of course, in
the interpretations that he makes, but Max definitely understands
that my concerns about his experimental setup are valid ones, and
he has taken steps to address my criticisms.
I think that we both have been learning a lot in our exchanges.
Jerry |
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Eric Gisse
science forum Guru
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 1999
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:14 am Post subject:
Re: Anisotropy In The Gravity Force Proven.
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Jerry wrote:
| Quote: | shuba wrote:
Max "krazy" Keon wrote:
It's probably important that I seal the central vent hole
The important thing is to keeep trolling Jerry. If that means
sealing the hole, go for it.
Actually, I rather admire Max. He is the only "alternative thinker"
in this newsgroup willing to put his theories to the test, investing
a considerable amount of time and money in the process. Of course,
he has tended to jump to false conclusions a lot, and in the past he
has had the habit of dismissing criticism of his experimental setups.
But our present exchange of critical ideas has been different, and I
am pleased that he now understands the importance of running control
experiments.
|
Has he yet done the simple task of performing his experiment again
after rotating the entire setup by 90 degrees?
| Quote: |
So far as I can tell, Max has been scrupulously honest in his
reporting of his experimental results. He is biased, of course, in
the interpretations that he makes, but Max definitely understands
that my concerns about his experimental setup are valid ones, and
he has taken steps to address my criticisms.
I think that we both have been learning a lot in our exchanges.
|
The flow of knowledge is not symmetric.
At any rate, I am still amused that Max has been unable to justify his
thinking that this setup will detect an "anisotropy" in the force of
gravity. I know he says his theory predicts it, but for all intents and
purposes this IS his theory.
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Jerry
science forum Guru
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 574
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:40 am Post subject:
Re: Anisotropy In The Gravity Force Proven.
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Eric Gisse wrote:
| Quote: | Jerry wrote:
Actually, I rather admire Max. He is the only "alternative thinker"
in this newsgroup willing to put his theories to the test, investing
a considerable amount of time and money in the process. Of course,
he has tended to jump to false conclusions a lot, and in the past he
has had the habit of dismissing criticism of his experimental setups.
But our present exchange of critical ideas has been different, and I
am pleased that he now understands the importance of running control
experiments.
Has he yet done the simple task of performing his experiment again
after rotating the entire setup by 90 degrees?
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I would guess that he is either
1) mounting the disparate components of his setup onto a stable
platform that can actually be tilted, or
2) saving the control experiment for what he thinks will be a
triumphant victory over the critical opposition, or
3) a trifle nervous of what the results might be.
These are not necessarily exclusive possibilities.
| Quote: | So far as I can tell, Max has been scrupulously honest in his
reporting of his experimental results. He is biased, of course, in
the interpretations that he makes, but Max definitely understands
that my concerns about his experimental setup are valid ones, and
he has taken steps to address my criticisms.
I think that we both have been learning a lot in our exchanges.
The flow of knowledge is not symmetric.
At any rate, I am still amused that Max has been unable to justify his
thinking that this setup will detect an "anisotropy" in the force of
gravity. I know he says his theory predicts it, but for all intents and
purposes this IS his theory.
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To be fair, I don't know how to program a supercomputer to model
Max's experimental setup, solving the Navier-Stokes equations to
justify my intuitive handwaving concerning the Coriolis effect. So
Max and I are even in that regards. We have opposing intuitions, but
neither of us can justify our arguments with a rigorous mathematical
model.
The ultimate arbiter of who is right will be experiment. And that
makes Max different from all the other "alternative thinkers" in this
newsgroup.
Jerry |
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