science forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
|Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:40 pm Post subject:
John Turmel drinks his own piss.
"By the way, he thinks he's shaming me while I think
he's helping spread a message many people will
eventually thank me for. I couldn't ask for a better
plug to bring this natural miraculous healer to
everyone's attention, even if from a demented
lunatic. I'm so not ashamed that I even pee a mug
full and chug it in the DVD put out last year at
http://www.turmelmovie.com so it's not as if I'm not
happy to get the message out."
John "Piss Boy" Turmel
science forum Guru
Joined: 07 May 2005
|Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject:
TURMEL: Zarlenga's American Monetary Institute wrong but growing
JCT: AMI is Steve Zarlenga's enterprise. I wrote an article
"Stephen Zarlenga's main thrust is off-target" noting he
misses the positive feedback instability of interest in the
1/(s-i) Laplace Transform equation of the system he is
analyzing but blames private creation of money for the
In another article "Tom Greco's Zarlenga Review," I noted
his book has 22 chapters on the problem, one on the
solution, and the solution offered is wrong. It suggests we
stop loan-sharking by private banks and let a government
bank do the loan-sharking and benefit from the seizures,
unemployment, and inflation that develop.
He gives short shrift to the whole alternative exchange
movement - mutual credit clearing associations, LETS, and
community currencies, does not even mention the commercial
"barter" industry, and of course, could not tackle a UNILETS
world-wide model. He has an easy time dissing the local
social currency models created with saboteurs installing
structural weaknesses but can't even attempt a critique at
the world-wide UNILETS interest-free time-trading model
which suffers none of the failings of incomplete-shopping-
database systems he studied.
Of course, he can't dis how provincial and private
currencies have stabilized Argentina nor how Hugo Chavez is
going to engineer social currency for Venezuela.
Zarlenga's third "straw man" is "the all money is debt"
problem when I've pointed out that if we're both in debt to
Bell and I ask them to let me take on $200 more negative so
you can have $200 more positive, I've just done a
transaction with debt. No problem.
The details of the Zarlenga plan consist of three main
points on which he insists there should be "no compromise;"
So whereas The Engineer recommends one repair to the
malfunction, Zarlenga without any blueprints, says we need
three. Har har har har.
1. Nationalize the Federal Reserve.
Let the people profit from permitting death-gamble.
2. End fractional reserve banking and institute the "100%
Reserve Solution" (ala Frederick Soddy), which he insists is
not the same as merely requiring 100% reserves.
Whereas LETS and UNILETS are 0% reserve systems that have an
infinite supply of tokens just waiting to be issued in
exchange for collateral, these 100% donkeys want to limit
the number of chips issuable out of the cage to the number
of chips saved over in the safety deposit section. I've
often laughed at proponents of 100% reserve savings before
you can issue new receipts for collateral as the ultimate
indicator of financial stupidity.
3. Institute anti-deflation programs.
A 1-Hour IOU cannot inflate. It is always worth 60 minutes.
Timebank currency cannot inflate. Turmel's Miracle Equation
for Unemployment and Inflation I/(P+I) says that to make
inflation zero, you only have to make I=0%. No positive
feedback on the chips. I guess our expert in banking systems
engineering hasn't even mastered the grade-level algebraic
explanation of the instability yet!
Funniest of all, Zarlenga admits that he does not have a
"complete and detailed blueprint of the ideal monetary
system," and yet, it's the one accurate blueprint for the
engineering of the banking system has been published online
for years: http://www.cyberclass.net/turmel/bankmath.htm
Zarlenga has adopted Aristotle's view, which he quotes:
"...Money exists not by nature but by law."
Money exists by collateral backing up the IOU receipt.
So let's see how the Man of Many Mistakes is doing:
|Subject: [toeslist] AMI Report on chapter launching trips
JCT: Of course, toeslist is a group which has banned my
posts on UNILETS so it's no wonder he'd be presenting it to
a crowd who are already pre-disposed against the real
|Posted by: "AMI" firstname.lastname@example.org americanmonetaryinstitute
Date: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:13 am (PDT)
Please pardon double postings!
Dear Friends of the American Monetary Institute,
SZ: While it was exciting to help launch several new AMI
Chapters (in Corning, Iowa; Brookings, South Dakota;
Portland, Oregon, Seattle, Washington; and Centralia,
Washington) it is good to be back. Each time I return from
one of these trips requires several days to get re-organized
and settle in. I'll be in the Chicago area straight through
to our Monetary Reform Conference , September 21-24; except
of a Chapter Launching in Raleigh- Durham North Carolina
June 26-28, maybe a trip to Albuquerque, New Mexico in July,
_and if we find funding,_ I've been invited to deliver a
talk in Athens Greece to a monetary/economic Symposium at
Athens University, entitled ARISTOTLE VS ADAM SMITH; the
Science of Money vs. the Mythology of Money.
JCT: Seems like he's having great success at installing his
badly-engineered systems around the states!
SZ: Here is what happened in May: (for contact phone
numbers of any AMI chapters, please phone me at 847-359-
_Iowa Alpha in Burlington _- Dick Distlehorst, founder of
AMI's first and most active Chapter hosted a lunch May 17
for chapter members where I delivered our "Northwest Trip
talk," using printouts instead of a computer. Dick is well
known in Burlington as highly knowledgeable in monetary
matters. The people in attendance have known him for years,
and are obviously what I call "serious" people. Good
questions were asked. At the end of the meeting, powerful
Iowa Congressman Jim Leach's office manager, having lunch at
the same restaurant, came by our table, immediately
understanding what Dick's presence meant at such a meeting.
We "tackled" her and she pretty much had to listen to the
initial part of our presentation demonstrating the
connection between our private mis-managed money system,
JCT: and Zarlenga's public mis-managed money system.
SZ: and the lack of infrastructure and levees in the US.
Whether or not she was convinced, its certain a report of
this meeting gets back to Congressman Leach. Monetary reform
will have a place on his radar screen. Congressmen are very
tuned to what is happening in their districts.
JCT: Har har har har. The opposition puppets are listening.
Probably because the message is wrong. They've never
listened to the right message before.
SZ: _In Charitan, Iowa_, R.C. Stuart, from our Maine
Chapter, there for a summer visit with his parents, (his dad
a retired Federal Judge) brought several people together to
hear the message at the local library. R.C's home and main
focus is in Maine, but he spends some time each year in
Charitan, and we both thought "Lets try to start a chapter
here too." This will take more work, development, and time
on the ground there, but he'll be back next summer.
_Then it was on to Corning, Iowa_ (still on Route 34) which
was the founding city of the NFO - the National Farmers
Organization, in 1955 (http://www.nfo.org/). It is also the
site of the utopian Icarian Community from 1852. Both
influences are still present. AMI Chapter founder Matt Olive
and his brothers are the core of the AMI Iowa Beta Chapter.
We held our meeting at the Town Hall. Its quite a community,
with an opera house under renovation, and beautiful forward
looking environmentally sound real estate developments under
way. I'm expecting substantial activity here. There is a
community spirit evident and we were hosted "annonymously"
by a successful Corning businessman, given full use of his
guest Condo. Corning is also the hometown of late night TV
host Johny Carson. Matt and I visited his house and
discovered an old wishing well on the property. Figuring
this particular well might have had some magical powers for
Johny, we threw some coins in! (we'll try most everything
for monetary reform!)
I had a late invitation to drive south from there to visit
our friends at the Economics Department of the University of
Missouri, Kansas City but had to drive directly north to
Brookings, South Dakota for our scheduled meeting. Kansas
City next time! AMI should have a chapter there.
_The AMI Chapter in Brookings, South Dakota Alpha_, is
founded by Engineer and Farmer Larry Rudebusch, who read my
book a couple of years ago
JCT: Bet he hasn't read my advanced engineering analysis or
he wouldn't be with Zarlenga.
SZ: and attended our monetary Reform Conference in Chicago
in 2005. Larry has been associated with NORM (National
Organization for Raw Materials) and Acres Magazine. I got a
chance to see a family farming operation from up close,
including the wonderful fresh foods available. Raw fresh
milk is really tasty! Larry had agreed to let me drive a
tractor, but it was a big thing - I felt like I was on a
high diving board - and I didn't want to take down any
fences (or houses!) by not being able to stop the monster in
time. So I excused myself saying that I'd drive it if there
was some real job to do (which I knew there was not, just
Larry is running for Congress on the Libertarian Party
ticket, but with a difference: I was greatly impressed,
listening to him field various questions on his ability to
bring back most questions to the necessity for monetary
JCT: I was barred from being a Libertarian Party candidate
back in 1980 for advocating monetary reform. Stopped from
re-registering the party a few years ago.
SZ: Supporters and friends would try to draw him away into
side non-issues, but he'd immediately bring them back on
track into how monetary reform was the key central issue
that had to be solved before any others would make sense. I
really liked that ability. Twenty people came to the meeting
including a number of South Dakota Libertarians including
their State Chairman and their Gubernatorial Candidate, both
of whom became interested in Monetary reform and got copies
of my book.
JCT: That should keep them pretty confused about how poker
One realization that has come out of the trip through Iowa
and South Dakota is that we will win this fight. The
opposition's ultimate threat was the destruction of humanity
through nuclear warfare. That would destroy our cities and
present civilization, but I realized on this drive that
there is enough left out there in the countryside of what we
consider real Jeffersonian American culture, (minus the
religious and free market fundamentalism), for mankind to
proceed. I've driven all over the US several times, but this
is the first time this realization hit home. Assuming of
course that the financial/religious maniacs don't cause the
loss of the Earth's atmosphere through their block-headed
stupidity. That has been the real lesson of the Mars probes,
that there was once flowing water on Mars - that a planet
can lose its life sustaining atmosphere.
JCT: And having guys like Zarlenga blame the wrong cause of
economic malfunction is slowing down repair.
SZ: The next Chapters were launched in Portland, Oregon;
Seattle Washington; and Centralia, Washington. Great
meetings were held in Portland and Centralia and three
meetings (which will be combined next time) were held in
Seattle/Tacoma. Our Chapter leader in all 3 Northwest towns
is Robert Poteat, one of the most experienced
students/teachers of monetary reform in the U.S. It looks as
though good core groups will form in Seattle and Portland.
The key is to get at least four or five people who will
continue to re-inforce one another. Professor Preparata had
us address his economics class at Washington University,
JCT: Many chapters doing what?
SZ: In Centralia, something special happenned: We addressed
the local Democratic Party Organization. Its the first time
AMI has specifically targetted Democrats, and the results
were somewhat amazing. They started out largely demoralized,
because for the most part, the Democrats have also accepted
the lies of economics. But there is no place in economics
for the "common man" to exist with dignity and rights.
Economics in effect renders the Democrats as useless.
It was wonderful to watch how their spirits picked up when
presented with the evidence that their viewpoint - a
Jeffersonian view favoring the average fellow, was shown not
only to be moral, but also the most effective approach. The
evidence that the monetary system is systematically used as
an engine of theft, undeservedly concentrating wealth in the
hands of the super rich helped fire up their attitude.
Several of them went on in the days following to their
Washington State Convention and distributed over a hundred
of our brochures (The need for Monetary Reform) and made
monetary reform an issue there and asked Bob and I to draft
a sample resolution that they might pass. (Its below) Here
is what the Democratic Vice Chair of Washington State
Dear Stephen Z and Bob P,
I appreciate your efforts and information! These attachments
will help form a core of knowledgeable local people who can
begin the grassroots actions you spoke about at the Lewis
County meeting. I distributed about 100 copies of the
earlier two-page document you sent at the State Democratic
Convention over the weekend. We can now begin planning for
larger distributions and presentations at future
All I can say folks is WOW.
JCT: Me too. Getting a politician interested in a taboo
subject like monetary reform, even wrong monetary reform, is
incredible. Then again, spreading Zarlenga's errors may be
helping the banksters keep people away. As Thomas Pynchon
notes in his "Proverbs for Paranoids," if they can get you
asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about
answers." And Zarlenga certainly gets them asking the wrong
questions. Luckily, he publishes in a group where I can't
correct him and toeslist readers stay ignorant of the truth.
SZ: We are going to watch these developments. If its the
"down home" type Democrats who will listen and act (not the
elitist Democratic Leadership types) then we'll talk to
them. We are non-Partisan, but its nice when our message is
so well taken.
Well friends, thats the report on the trip. These trips cost
money. Please donate. Make your plans to come to the AMI
Monetary Reform Conference in Chicago, September (21-24).
Its shaping up really well, and we are going to have a
number of sessions and reports on the Chapter activity,
including reports of whats working. This is how we'll get
fired up and be ready to continue this struggle. We need you
to be there. It makes a difference! Warm regards to all,
P.S. Below is the sample resolution and background note from
Robert Poteat we sent them.
JCT: Okay, we get to hear what has impressed all these
SZ: Dear .........,
Here is a possible resolution for the LEWIS County Dems that
Bob and I have worked on. Bob said he is ready to drive all
night to present it to you fellows in person if necessary.
Based on the attached letter from Robert Poteat of Onalaska,
and the summary entitled the Need For Monetary Reform from
the American Monetary Institute we resolve to form a
committee to study their monetary conclusions in detail and
examine whether they are supported by factual evidence.
JCT: Form a committee to study their erroneous analysis.
SZ: In particular we should know:
whether our present monetary structure conveys special
unfair privileges to some, to the detriment of others;
JCT: Any evidence?
SZ: whether it further promotes the concentration of wealth
in our society;
JCT: Does taking from the negatives to give to the positives
and taking even more from the more negative to give to the
even more positive and taking the most from the most
negative giving the most to the most positive "promote the
concentration of wealth?"
SZ: whether it unnecessarily doubles to triples the cost of
governmental infrastructure projects, placing unnecessary
burdens on our society and thereby de-funding government at
whether substituting publicly created money in place of bank
created credit, as proposed in the summaries has in fact
worked in America's past and could be reasonably expected to
work in the present.
JCT: Not if the government bank like the private banks demand the
repayment of more
privately-created money than the the exponential debt
created. Different cashiers, same imbalance, same problem,
same no solution.
SZ: whether we should endorse and support the proposed
Monetary Transparency Act, and the American Monetary Act put
forward by the American Monetary Institute. The committee
will report its findings at our next regular meeting, or
earlier by mail if appropriate. Signed: Lewis County Dems
JCT: What's the American Monetary Act? Probably not dealing
with exponential debt.
INTRODUCTION TO MONETARY REFORM
by Robert Poteat
RP: Today, I speak both as a representative of the American
Monetary Institute, AMI, www.monetary.org and a Democrat.
AMI is a 501c3 charitable trust formed for the independent
study of monetary systems, history, and, importantly, to
recommend corrective, reforming legislation. We are in the
process of national organization. Fourteen Chapter groups
are forming around the country.
Recently, I entered a library that was set in a beautiful
location that typifies our northwest spring. The line from
the novel came to mind: It is the best of times; it is the
worst of times. Literally, we have so much. Technology,
science, the resources of that beautiful library that I have
over-used. We who have enjoyed a nominal middle-class life
have it better than humans of any other time. But there is a
dark side, Luke.
So, what's the problem? You already know, and I do not wish
to bore you with too much redundancy. I will thumbnail it
for this instance.
1. Exponentially growing debt in every sector of the
JCT: Due to interest, not private creation.
RP: Federal Gross Public Treasury debt is more than $8
trillions. Interest on that debt consumes $250 - $300
billions of tax revenue. Other sectors added bring the total
to more than $40 trillions. It took until the administration
of Ronald Reagan to reach $1 trillion federal debt. In
approximately 25 years it has multiplied 8 fold. Where do
you think it will be in another 25 years?
2. Mis-allocation of finance. Banks have a predilection to
lend on real estate that creates inflation in real estate
and compels developers to pave our farmland at a time when
food surpluses are dwindling.
JCT: Believers in Shift A inflation. Doesn't know about B.
RP: Also, an undetermined amount is going into Wall Street
games that amount to little more than gambling or outright
theft of monetary claims on society's wealth.
3. Unrepaired and decaying infrastructure such as the New
Orleans levees. The American Society of Engineers estimated
an infrastructure deficit of $1.6 trillions before Katrina.
Katrina's clean-up is estimated at $400 billions or more.
Double it or triple it if it is financed by debt because of
4. Stratification of wealth. Most of the nation's debt is
owned and interest is paid to the very richest people who
already make claim to obscene amounts of the society's
wealth. 1% claim to own about 50% of the national wealth.
This predicts the demise of American ideological constructs.
In a recent interview Studs Turkel asked "do they want the
whole pie? They don't know when to stop!"
JCT: Sure makes a great case against interest. I wonder how
he's going to lose sight of the problem?
RP: 5. Human infrastructure must be a first concern. In a
country where a few have so much and 40 millions of people
have no health services other than tax supported programs or
charity, we see a huge disconnect between our ideology and
the reality of the results of the stratification of wealth.
Our educational systems are victimized by the same
stratification where the wealthy have access to any advanced
education and the rest do not, except by a few scholarships.
It is a guarantee that the lower classes will stay put.
Human infrastructure introduces the moral dimension of the
distorted allocation of finance. We must begin to put people
ahead of economic abstractions that treat human
infrastructure as an irrelevant "externality." "What does
human suffering have to do with out perfect economic
theories," they ask. Theories that in fact are made of whole
cloth, cannot be proved, and are often disproved by obvious
6. War. What bigger moral disconnect can there be? We cannot
issue money for social care because it is inflationary, the
economists tell us. Let war start and the monetary
floodgates are opened, and there is no limit. Look at the
history of the federal debt and you will see a bump in debt
at every instance of war. The depression of the 1930s did
not end until war production began for WWII.
7. Environmental degradation. Nothing contributes to
pollution and plundering of natural resources more than
bottom-line monetary accounting as the only guiding
principle. It's the quarterly bottom-line, Luke. That's the
dark side, Luke. The list could go on.
How did we get into this mess?
JCT: How do we get out?
RP: A major factor is the way our money system is structured
- particularly in the way money is issued. Money, is issued
as debt by private banks. contrary to what you may believe,
government does not create our money supply.
RP: Again, contrary to what you may believe, banks do not
lend money that has been deposited with them. They create
bank credit, or debt, and deposit it. Upon that deposit,
bank credit, or debt, is expanded by what is called
fractional reserve banking.
JCT: expanded by the multiplier effect of the fractional
reserve banking system.
RP: Time does not allow a detailed explanation, but the best
explanation was published by the Federal Reserve Bank of
Chicago in a booklet called "Modern Money Mechanics." How
bank credit is expanded is graphed in this diagram.
JCT: I do it better in my simple flow analysis at
RP: In the short term we have prepared a proposed MONETARY
TRANSPARENCY ACT. Briefly it instructs the Federal Reserve
to resume publishing the M3 statistic and a list of other
critical statistics that show precisely where loaned money
goes. How much is in Wall Street gambling? Home mortgages?
JCT: This doesn't help solve the problem though it helps
RP: How much does government lose by relinquishing
seignorage on money creation?
JCT: Seignorage isn't the instability. Positive feedback is.
RP: What is the value of government granted privileges such
as mineral, spectrum, water, pollution and patent rights? We
must know these things to formulate good monetary policy
that serves people instead of financial interests.
JCT: No, the cashier needs to know none of this to properly
operate his poker chips system.
RP: It is time to take up this as a political issue. It must
be done now. "However you need to know a bit more about the
subject. This is the mission of the American Monetary
JCT: And as long as they fail to teach about the real source
of instability, the positive feedback on debt, and blame
the wrong source, they're just another team of Judas Goats
leading the sheople to the slaughterhouse.
RP: So I call upon my fellow Democrats to, at a minimum,
agree to a resolution that emphasizes the importance of
getting a handle on this issue as soon as possible and to
appoint a study committee.
JCT: Yes, a resolution to agree it must be solved. Big win.
RP: The American Monetary Institute and I will devote
whatever time and energy is required to assist. The full
Research results of the American Monetary Institute are in
The Lost Science of Money book, in highly readable form.
JCT: Will all attendant errors left uncorrected.
RP: Its a thick book, but is written to be understood!
Chapter 1 thru 23 are the historical case studies and
Chapter 24 has the proposed reforms. They are summarized in
the brief one page front and back piece titled The Need For
Monetary Reform (attached). It is the non-partisan purpose
of AMI to support our lawmakers in understanding this. We
have been preparing a comprehensive monetary reform act. The
draft proposal can be reviewed and critiqued on the AMI
website, www.monetary.org, we invite comments and critique.
The text of the Need For Monetary Reform is attached.
The text of the Monetary Transparency Act is attached.
The American Monetary Act is found at the AMI website at
http://www.monetary.org and is also attached.
The full research results of the American Monetary Institute
are found in Stephen Zarlenga's book The Lost Science of
Money, described at the website.
Also attached is an example of how Burlington (Iowa) Town
Council handled this important question. Sincerely,
Robert Poteat and Stephen Zarlenga
American Monetary Institute
JCT: Anyway, it goes to show the kinds of people and
organizations involved in spreading the wrong information
about our financial enslavement. Can't lift your chains if
they've got you beating on the key.
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