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A Quantum Philosophical Thesis
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mimus
science forum addict


Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: A Quantum Philosophical Thesis Reply with quote

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:08:56 -0400, dave hillstrom wrote:

Quote:
On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:33:53 -0400, mimus <tinmimus99@hotmail.com
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:09:26 -0700, mikegordge wrote:

Smee wrote:

You are hereby fined 27 and one half points for obfuscation.

And you reckon saying *numbers dont exist in nature* isn't coming from
an obfuscated and seriously fucked up reason dead brain?

Try reading the OP again. No one said anything about numbers not existing
in nature . . . .

~I~ say they dont exist in nature. and ~I~ define nature as that
which man has not created. and ~I~ say that numbers are a concoction
solely of mans brain due to his inability to grok nature without a
tool for counting and measuring.
so there.

Um, concepts and the entities and relationships they model aren't real?

--
tinmimus99@hotmail.com

smeeter 11 or maybe 12

mp 10

mhm 29x13

You display a hole: admitted, and a fine hole it is.
But how does this hole differ from any other?

< _Tales of the Dying Earth_
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mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
science forum beginner


Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: A Quantum Philosophical Thesis Reply with quote

dave hillstrom wrote:

Nothing, nothing absolutely nothing at all about the subject of the
invented thread of the silly nonsense of inventing numbers, which
incidentally NO-ONE has explained what the f*** that is all about and
why and how man needs to know anything about it, but dave hillstrom,
(who obviously has such a low opinion of himself that he doesn't regard
his own name worthy of being capitalised), the trait of a socialist
masochist if ever there was, who chose instead to attack me personally
because I had appropriately responded to another leftist fuckwit who
was also attacking me and who also did so without one single referrence
to the subject.

What is it with these fucking clowns who hate their ideas being
challenged so much that the believe the only possible response is
attacking the challenger and not the challenge?


Michael Gordge
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dave hillstrom
science forum beginner


Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:33 pm    Post subject: Re: A Quantum Philosophical Thesis Reply with quote

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:31:32 -0400, mimus <tinmimus99@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Quote:
On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:50:55 -0400, dave hillstrom wrote:

On 24 Jun 2006 15:09:26 -0700, mikegordge@xtra.co.nz wrote:


Smee wrote:

You are hereby fined 27 and one half points for obfuscation.

And you reckon saying *numbers dont exist in nature* isn't coming from
an obfuscated and seriously fucked up reason dead brain?

what do you consider "in nature"?

because, technically, numbers only exist in our human brains. and
then only if we are taught about them, or, presumably, if we invented
them for ourself like the long lost founders of mathematics did.

show me a naturally occurring flower with numbers on its petals. go
on. all i need is for you to show me one. one naturally occurring
instance of a number in nature.

you cant. do you know why? its because numbers are a human
construct, a human created tool used to help us grasp and explain that
which we experience. numbers are NOT reality. but reality can be
~approximately~ and ~statistically~ represented by the use of numbers.

and why do you resort to ad hominem attacks on mimus in what is a
philosophical discussion? is it because you dont have a logical
argument and simply wish to lash out in anger? youll never get
anywhere youd like to be by doing that. and i would ~hope~ you are
person enough to apologize for it.

cough

I don't mind a little fLaming now and then.

But Smee should kick his "arse".

hes not a philosopher. hes a troll from the nz.politics group. and
he has nothing of philosophical or mathematical worth to add to the
discussion.

--
Dave Hillstrom mhm15x4 zrbj
"I can't find my puppy, can you help me find him? I think he went
into this cheap motel room."
-Dave Hillstrom
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mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
science forum beginner


Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: A Quantum Philosophical Thesis Reply with quote

dave hillstrom wrote:
Quote:

they dont exist in nature, either. no numbers exist in nature.
numbers only exist in our human minds, and then only if taught.


Thats metaphysics dave, my question is epistemology. I am trying to
find out the theory behind what is shaping up to be, as I suspected it
was, just more meaningless *of the mind piffle* with no use to a human
being at all.

What problems of human survival are you claiming can be solved by
claming numbers are invented?


Michael Gordge
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Tim Weaver
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: A Quantum Philosophical Thesis Reply with quote

wrote:

Quote:

dave hillstrom wrote:

Nothing, nothing absolutely nothing at all about the subject of the
invented thread of the silly nonsense of inventing numbers, which
incidentally NO-ONE has explained what the f*** that is all about and
why and how man needs to know anything about it, but dave hillstrom,
(who obviously has such a low opinion of himself that he doesn't regard
his own name worthy of being capitalised), the trait of a socialist
masochist if ever there was, who chose instead to attack me personally
because I had appropriately responded to another leftist fuckwit who
was also attacking me and who also did so without one single referrence
to the subject.

What is it with these fucking clowns who hate their ideas being
challenged so much that the believe the only possible response is
attacking the challenger and not the challenge?

That's what people (like Hillstrom) do when they are about to have a
complete mental meltdown.
--
Tim Weaver

I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I an not so sure what you heard is not what I meant.
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mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
science forum beginner


Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: A Quantum Philosophical Thesis Reply with quote

line_voltage wrote:

Quote:
numbers do NOT exist in nature

That's metaphysics, my questions relate to epistemology. It can be
argued that numbers do exist in nature, they exist as necessary
essential concepts of human survival, albeit inside man's mind,
existing as a real unimagined mental abstraction.

Numbers are concepts, concepts exist in man's mind for a purpose, a
number is a measurement of units, it is what man uses to help form
mental abstractions, mental pictures of problems of his survival that
need solving.

My question is, what purpose, what use to man, what problems can man
solve using the idea that numbers are not real, that numbers dont exist
in nature?

What is your point of even talking about real / unreal numbers when in
fact they ARE real and mans survival would become a matter of chance
without them?


Michael Gordge
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dave hillstrom
science forum beginner


Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: A Quantum Philosophical Thesis Reply with quote

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:33:48 -0400, mimus <tinmimus99@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Quote:
On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:08:56 -0400, dave hillstrom wrote:

On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:33:53 -0400, mimus <tinmimus99@hotmail.com
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:09:26 -0700, mikegordge wrote:

Smee wrote:

You are hereby fined 27 and one half points for obfuscation.

And you reckon saying *numbers dont exist in nature* isn't coming from
an obfuscated and seriously fucked up reason dead brain?

Try reading the OP again. No one said anything about numbers not existing
in nature . . . .

~I~ say they dont exist in nature. and ~I~ define nature as that
which man has not created. and ~I~ say that numbers are a concoction
solely of mans brain due to his inability to grok nature without a
tool for counting and measuring.
so there.

Um, concepts and the entities and relationships they model aren't real?

if you consider intellectual concepts in the brain real, then yes.
personally, anything that solely exists in the mind of man seems to me
to be hard to put my finger on, literally. is it real? i cant hold
it. is it imaginary? perhaps, but it may effect the lives of man in
subtle ways. how do you define the two?

again. show me a number in nature. show me the number 4289, for
instance, on or in anything that was not created by man. show me a
naturally occurring flower with its petals numbered. show me a planet
whose moons are numbered. unless you can do that, numbers, no matter
what kind, are solely a tool created in the minds of men, having no
reality in nature.

hell, if you draw a 3 on a piece of paper, it STILL doesnt mean a
thing until a HUMAN WHO HAS BEEN TAUGHT MATHEMATICS sees it and
interprets it. just like books are simply kindling and ass wiping
tools to those who cant read. its all up in the human mind.

thats just how it is, dude.

--
Dave Hillstrom mhm15x4 zrbj
"I can't find my puppy, can you help me find him? I think he went
into this cheap motel room."
-Dave Hillstrom
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mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
science forum beginner


Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:00 pm    Post subject: Re: A Quantum Philosophical Thesis Reply with quote

Tim Weaver wrote:

Quote:
That's what people (like Hillstrom) do when they are about to have a
complete mental meltdown.

You mean he'd recovered from the last one Tim?

I certainly didn't get that impression, oh well, I'll just sit back and
see how he responds to my questions about what appears so far to be
nothing but the silly little and pathietic mind games of the Kantian
Russellian Platonian Randaphobe retards. Silly and pathetic because
there ARE REAL problems in the world that people ought be doing
something about, eg inventing a vaccine againt leftist stupidity.


Michael Gordge
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Shirley
science forum beginner


Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: A Quantum Philosophical Thesis Reply with quote

"line_voltage" <spammers.hell@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:bywng.3438$il.2502@trnddc03...
Quote:
mimus wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:09:26 -0700, mikegordge wrote:


Smee wrote:


You are hereby fined 27 and one half points for obfuscation.

And you reckon saying *numbers dont exist in nature* isn't coming from
an obfuscated and seriously fucked up reason dead brain?


Try reading the OP again. No one said anything about numbers not
existing
in nature . . . .



raises hand

numbers do NOT exist in nature

bows


If numbers do not exist in nature then why during a bad year do some of
natures wildlife decrease their number of offspring by a certain amount?
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dave hillstrom
science forum beginner


Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:21 pm    Post subject: Re: A Quantum Philosophical Thesis Reply with quote

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:15:56 -0400, "Shirley" <bigd1999@bellsoutj.net>
wrote:

Quote:

"line_voltage" <spammers.hell@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:bywng.3438$il.2502@trnddc03...
mimus wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:09:26 -0700, mikegordge wrote:


Smee wrote:


You are hereby fined 27 and one half points for obfuscation.

And you reckon saying *numbers dont exist in nature* isn't coming from
an obfuscated and seriously fucked up reason dead brain?


Try reading the OP again. No one said anything about numbers not
existing
in nature . . . .



raises hand

numbers do NOT exist in nature

bows


If numbers do not exist in nature then why during a bad year do some of
natures wildlife decrease their number of offspring by a certain amount?

find me a number in nature, shirley. come back when youve found it.


--
Dave Hillstrom mhm15x4 zrbj
"I can't find my puppy, can you help me find him? I think he went
into this cheap motel room."
-Dave Hillstrom
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Shirley
science forum beginner


Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:33 pm    Post subject: Re: A Quantum Philosophical Thesis Reply with quote

"dave hillstrom" <dAvE@MeOw.oRg> wrote in message
news:e7muo5$im4$116@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
Quote:
On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:15:56 -0400, "Shirley" <bigd1999@bellsoutj.net
wrote:


"line_voltage" <spammers.hell@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:bywng.3438$il.2502@trnddc03...
mimus wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:09:26 -0700, mikegordge wrote:


Smee wrote:


You are hereby fined 27 and one half points for obfuscation.

And you reckon saying *numbers dont exist in nature* isn't coming from
an obfuscated and seriously fucked up reason dead brain?


Try reading the OP again. No one said anything about numbers not
existing
in nature . . . .



raises hand

numbers do NOT exist in nature

bows


If numbers do not exist in nature then why during a bad year do some of
natures wildlife decrease their number of offspring by a certain amount?

find me a number in nature, shirley. come back when youve found it.

You wish is my command master.... ;o}

http://www.mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Knott/Fibonacci/fibnat.html


Quote:


--
Dave Hillstrom mhm15x4 zrbj
"I can't find my puppy, can you help me find him? I think he went
into this cheap motel room."
-Dave Hillstrom
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mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
science forum beginner


Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: A Quantum Philosophical Thesis Reply with quote

Shirley wrote:

Quote:
If numbers do not exist in nature then why during a bad year do some of
natures wildlife decrease their number of offspring by a certain amount?

And of course that is an excellent example of the use of the
epistemology of numbers, however the leftist retards are not programmed
to think that epistemology and metaphysics are two totally diferent
subjects.

YOU personally will be attacked now Shirley, your crime? challenging a
retard, for asking such a valid question on the subject of reality of
the concept of numbers. Well done from me.


Michael Gordge
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Smee
science forum beginner


Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: A Quantum Philosophical Thesis Reply with quote

"Tim Weaver" <tmw99999@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97EDA9F8C6D850Z0thecheeseclub0Z0@news.giganews.com...
Quote:
wrote:


dave hillstrom wrote:

Nothing, nothing absolutely nothing at all about the subject of the
invented thread of the silly nonsense of inventing numbers, which
incidentally NO-ONE has explained what the f*** that is all about and
why and how man needs to know anything about it, but dave hillstrom,
(who obviously has such a low opinion of himself that he doesn't regard
his own name worthy of being capitalised), the trait of a socialist
masochist if ever there was, who chose instead to attack me personally
because I had appropriately responded to another leftist fuckwit who
was also attacking me and who also did so without one single referrence
to the subject.

What is it with these fucking clowns who hate their ideas being
challenged so much that the believe the only possible response is
attacking the challenger and not the challenge?

That's what people (like Hillstrom) do when they are about to have a
complete mental meltdown.

Lame.

Smee

Quote:
--
Tim Weaver

I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I an not so sure what you heard is not what I meant.
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Smee
science forum beginner


Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: A Quantum Philosophical Thesis Reply with quote

<mikegordge@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1151269225.461417.44970@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

Tim Weaver wrote:

That's what people (like Hillstrom) do when they are about to have a
complete mental meltdown.

You mean he'd recovered from the last one Tim?

I certainly didn't get that impression, oh well, I'll just sit back and
see how he responds to my questions about what appears so far to be
nothing but the silly little and pathietic mind games of the Kantian
Russellian Platonian Randaphobe retards. Silly and pathetic because
there ARE REAL problems in the world that people ought be doing
something about, eg inventing a vaccine againt leftist stupidity.

Even lamer.

Smee

Quote:


Michael Gordge
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dave hillstrom
science forum beginner


Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: A Quantum Philosophical Thesis Reply with quote

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:33:52 -0400, "Shirley" <bigd1999@bellsoutj.net>
wrote:

Quote:

"dave hillstrom" <dAvE@MeOw.oRg> wrote in message
news:e7muo5$im4$116@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:15:56 -0400, "Shirley" <bigd1999@bellsoutj.net
wrote:


"line_voltage" <spammers.hell@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:bywng.3438$il.2502@trnddc03...
mimus wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:09:26 -0700, mikegordge wrote:


Smee wrote:


You are hereby fined 27 and one half points for obfuscation.

And you reckon saying *numbers dont exist in nature* isn't coming from
an obfuscated and seriously fucked up reason dead brain?


Try reading the OP again. No one said anything about numbers not
existing
in nature . . . .



raises hand

numbers do NOT exist in nature

bows


If numbers do not exist in nature then why during a bad year do some of
natures wildlife decrease their number of offspring by a certain amount?

find me a number in nature, shirley. come back when youve found it.

You wish is my command master.... ;o}

http://www.mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Knott/Fibonacci/fibnat.html

i disagree. thats a human conceived numbering scheme that is used to
explain nature.

nature doesnt know what 5813 means. only humans do. and only those
taught mathematics, in particular.

deer and flowers and stars and moons dont know what 5813 means. or a
fibonacci series.

numbers are strictly in the minds of humans, as far as anyone can
prove.


--
Dave Hillstrom mhm15x4 zrbj
"I can't find my puppy, can you help me find him? I think he went
into this cheap motel room."
-Dave Hillstrom
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