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Egap
science forum beginner

Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 49

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:18 pm    Post subject: "How Does Light "Know" How Fast to Travel?"

"How Does Light "Know" How Fast to Travel?"

One of the basic beliefs of modern physics is that the velocity of
light is the same wherever and whenever it is measured. It is, in the
language of physics, invariant. To illustrate this understanding, let us
consider an example in which a rocket ship passes Mars on its way towards
Earth. On the rocket ship and on Mars are two radio transmitters arranged so
that, at the instant the ship passes Mars and transmitters are at the same
distance from Earth, both transmitters send a signal towards Earth. Along
the route, test stations observe the passage of the signals and report that
the signals pass each station simultaneously, exactly in accordance with the
requirements of Special Relativity. (Radio signals differ from light signals
only in their frequency. Relativistically, their behavior is identical..)

This observation presents no problem if the radio signals is are waves
propagating through a medium (e.g.- the Aether) as sound does though air.
The velocity of a wave propagating through a medium is the velocity of
propagation of that wave though the medium. The velocity of propagation of
the sound of a gunshot is independent of the velocity of the gun while the
velocity of the bullet is not. The observation presents a difficulty,
however, if we regard the photons which makeup the radio wave as particles
which are emitted from the source and travel ballistically to the target.
Such would seem to be the concept of the propagation of light when one
considers the apparent banishment of the Aether following the acceptance of
Special Relativity. If there is no medium, then the observably same velocity
of the two radio waves could only occur if the transmitter on the rocket
ship had measured its velocity with respect to the transmitter on Mars and
adjusted the velocity of its transmitted signal so as to cause the two
signals to travel together.

The side by side propagation of the radio signals presents no problem
if one accepts that they are a vibrational disturbance traveling through a
medium (e.g. - the Aether), but if there is no medium it would seem to
require that some sort of "magic" be involved. The presence of magic in
physical processes is more difficult for the writer to accept than is the
existence of the classical Aether. This conclusion is particularly true
since the Aether has been shown to be conventionally unobservable but has
never been shown to be non-existent. The latter conclusion results from the
fact that physicists have jumped from an unproven assertion to a foregone
conclusion. Dr. Einstein did warn that the non-existence of the Aether had
not been proven, what had been proven was that it was not necessary for
computations of relativistic effects.

The source material for this posting may be found in
http://einsteinhoax.com/hoax.htm/ (1997);
http://einsteinhoax.com/gravity.htm (1987); and
http://einsteinhoax.com/relcor.htm (1997). EVERYTHING WHICH WE ACCEPT AS
TRUE MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH EVERYTHING ELSE WE HAVE ACCEPTED AS TRUE, IT
MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH ALL OBSERVATIONS, AND IT MUST BE MATHEMATICALLY
VIABLE. PRESENT TEACHINGS DO NOT ALWAYS MEET THIS REQUIREMENT. THE WORLD IS
ENTITLED TO A HIGHER STANDARD OF WORKMANSHIP FROM THOSE IT HAS GRANTED WORLD
CLASS STATUS.

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http://einsteinhoax.com/postinglog.htm.

Please make any response via E-mail as Newsgroups are not monitored on
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as they are presented. To prevent the wastage of time on both of our parts,
please do not raise objections that are not related to material that you
have read at the Website. This posting is merely a summary.

E-mail:- einsteinhoax@isp.com. If you wish a reply, be sure that your
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The material at the Website has been posted continuously for over 8
years. In that time THERE HAVE BEEN NO OBJECTIVE REBUTTALS OF ANY OF THE
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Challenges to date have revealed only the responder's inadequacy with one
exception for which a correction was provided.
G=EMC^2 Glazier
science forum Guru

Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 527

 Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: "How Does Light "Know" How Fast to Travel?" It gets its information from the 'c' spin of the electron The electron cloud structure is spinning photons. They radiate out at 'c',and radiate in at 'c' This is the heart of my "Spin is in theory" Bert
Double-A
science forum Guru

Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 342

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: "How Does Light "Know" How Fast to Travel?"

G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:
 Quote: It gets its information from the 'c' spin of the electron The electron cloud structure is spinning photons. They radiate out at 'c',and radiate in at 'c' This is the heart of my "Spin is in theory" Bert

But near the Sun, electrons will spin slower, and light will travel
slower, so they must communicate with the gravitational field they are
in.

Double-A
G=EMC^2 Glazier
science forum Guru

Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 527

 Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: "How Does Light "Know" How Fast to Travel?" Double-A Where did you get that information Bert
Double-A
science forum Guru

Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 342

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: "How Does Light "Know" How Fast to Travel?"

G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:
 Quote: Double-A Where did you get that information Bert

Well we know that EM waves travelling from Mars to Earth take slightly
longer to get here when passing close to the Sun (Shapiro Effect).

http://www.geocities.com/newastronomy/animate.htm

And light from stars is the more red shifted the heavier they are,
showing that the electrons producing the light must be moving slightly
slower in the gravitational field.

So gravity must tell light/electrons how fast to move/spin.

Double-A
G=EMC^2 Glazier
science forum Guru

Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 527

 Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: "How Does Light "Know" How Fast to Travel?" Double-A light has a constant speed. There is no frame of reference to measure its speed differently. No gravity force can change its speed Gravity can only lengthen its wave length . can shorten it also if it is moving towards a gravitational field shorten it. Speed of the light source can do the same thing. That is why motion and gravity are two sides to the same coin(Equivalent) Bert
Double-A
science forum Guru

Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 342

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: "How Does Light "Know" How Fast to Travel?"

G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:
 Quote: Double-A light has a constant speed. There is no frame of reference to measure its speed differently.

Bull crap!

When you measure the speed of light passing near the Sun, it moves
slower according to our Earth clocks than light travelling here on
Earth. It would only seem to be going the at c if you were in the same
inertial frame as the light near the Sun, and that is because then your
electrons would be moving slower too.

 Quote: No gravity force can change its speed Gravity can only lengthen its wave length .

Gravity makes everything move slower, even your brain. That's why
light's wavelength gets longer, because the electrons emitting the
photons are moving slower.

 Quote: can shorten it also if it is moving towards a gravitational field shorten it. Speed of the light source can do the same thing. That is why motion and gravity are two sides to the same coin(Equivalent) Bert

I thought that was just called into question by the changing constants
observations?

Double-A
G=EMC^2 Glazier
science forum Guru

Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 527

 Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: "How Does Light "Know" How Fast to Travel?" Double-A you are going against relativity. My electron spinning at "c" is the only theory giving light both its source and most importantly its "set" speed. Light leaving a large star travels at the same speed as the Earth's reflected light. Shame on you Double-A. Reality is if light did not go at 186,000 mps it would screw up the universe Bert
Double-A
science forum Guru

Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 342

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:22 pm    Post subject: Re: "How Does Light "Know" How Fast to Travel?"

G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:
 Quote: Double-A you are going against relativity. My electron spinning at "c" is the only theory giving light both its source and most importantly its "set" speed. Light leaving a large star travels at the same speed as the Earth's reflected light. Shame on you Double-A. Reality is if light did not go at 186,000 mps it would screw up the universe Bert

It's a word game, Bert.

in other ways because he was fixated on the idea that light always
travels at c. What I am saying is that there are different ways you
can look at it. That site I gave you shows how radio waves coming from
Mars and passing near the Sun have already been timed to be going
slower than c. Einstein would say that a clock there locally near the
Sun would time the radio waves to be going at exactly c. But our clock
is not near the Sun. It is here on Earth. If we time everything based
on our constant Earth clock, then we will measure that some radio waves
and light travel at different speeds, depending on how intense a
gravity field they are passing through. That is another way of looking
at it. By looking at things in different ways, maybe we will see
something that Einstein missed. It's the 21st century now. Time will
come that we will move beyond Einstein, just as Einstein and 20th
century physics moved beyond Newton. Not go against him, but move
beyond and to even better theories.

Double-A
G=EMC^2 Glazier
science forum Guru

Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 527

 Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: "How Does Light "Know" How Fast to Travel?" Double-A The Sun's gravity makes light take a curved path. Those smarter than me will tell you that light never changes speed but when taking a longer time that means the distance from A to B has been made longer.That is best to keep in mind for it is reality. GR and SR are based on clear reality ideas. Bert
Double-A
science forum Guru

Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 342

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:00 am    Post subject: Re: "How Does Light "Know" How Fast to Travel?"

G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:
 Quote: Double-A The Sun's gravity makes light take a curved path. Those smarter than me will tell you that light never changes speed but when taking a longer time that means the distance from A to B has been made longer.That is best to keep in mind for it is reality. GR and SR are based on clear reality ideas. Bert

The lengthening of the path by bending is not evough enough to explain
the increased time those radio waves took to get to Earth from Mars. I
believe a posted a professor's math on this once, but I'm not going to
go to the trouble of digging it up again. The bending of the path is
slight, and so it should be self evident that the lengthening of the
path wasn't very much.

As timed by our clocks on Earth, light travelling between galaxies must
travel faster than the light we can measure here in the solar system,
under both the Sun's and the galaxy's gravitational influences.

Double-A

Think in all directions, Bert!
G=EMC^2 Glazier
science forum Guru

Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 527

 Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: "How Does Light "Know" How Fast to Travel?" Double-A You are shooting me down with my own all directions thinking. So i'll think in the direction our measuring showing light picking up or slowing down if in error I would give up drinking Bud if its effect on me had me thinking the photons are able to change speed. .Bert
Double-A
science forum Guru

Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 342

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:25 pm    Post subject: Re: "How Does Light "Know" How Fast to Travel?"

G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:
 Quote: Double-A You are shooting me down with my own all directions thinking. So i'll think in the direction our measuring showing light picking up or slowing down if in error I would give up drinking Bud if its effect on me had me thinking the photons are able to change speed. .Bert

First, please retract that statement, because I wouldn't want to see
you going without Bud.

" In the second place our result shows that, according to the general
theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light
in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in
the special theory of relativity and to which we have already
frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature
of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation
of light varies with position. Now we might think that as a consequence
of this, the special theory of relativity and with it the whole theory
of relativity would be laid in the dust. But in reality this is not the
case. We can only conclude that the special theory of relativity cannot
claim an unlimited domain of validity; its result hold only so long as
we are able to disregard the influences of gravitational fields on the
phenomena (e.g. of light)."

http://209.10.134.179/173/22.html

 Quote: From what I was reading last night, it is interesting to note that Newton also had a theory involving aether that predicted that light

would change speed and bend near the Sun. The only thing was that he
had the speed change backwards because he thought that light would
travel faster in the denser aether near the Sun. It wasn't until later
that experiments proved that light travelled slower through denser
media such as glass. Correcting for this error, the improved Newtonian
theory can predict the same effects on light near the Sun as
Einstein's.

Double-A

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