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A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief.
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dwickford@yahoo.com
science forum beginner


Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

May be of interest to alt.conspiracy.new-world-order

dwickford@yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:
I have been reading recently that there is the existence of all
possibilities in the multiverse. i.e. at every possible quantum
"decision" all events actually take place, splitting into a new
universes. I'm not fully convinced by this, since it ends up with
quite a lot of universes. There is no need for a split if the outcomes
are never observed and have no impact. This may be difficult to prove,
what with butterflies flapping their wings. But anyway the current
consciousness of the person tends to move through what they consider
the most probable events.

Altering consciousness may change the expectations, causing unexpected
things to happen i.e. we fall through a different path. There are
several ways to do this, the first is with mind warping drugs, which if
the mind is sufficiently altered, reality can actually change. A
problem with this is that once the person's drug induced state
diminishes they may expect the same physical reality they left, so
everything returns to normal. Also if there are other people observing
this they tend to expect nature to follow its normal course, so
breaking their expectations is often next to impossible. Also if
change is effected, the other people will always have belonged to the
new changed reality, and they will see nothing unusual, so it's a waste
of time telling them.

Another way to alter perception is applied through mental ill health,
which is not recommended. A magician should be able to alter
realities, but again the people will only think they have seen a stage
trick. Probably the easiest way to become a magician is to start at an
early age, and never be told that's impossible, or the like.

The importance of catholic (small c) belief is that when everyone
believes in regular cause and effect all move together, grow old and
die together, and the old order continues (disguised as the new world
order). The tendency of reality to continue along the laws of physics
continues, and it takes a greater mind to derive a new consistent law
of physics. It may be possible to break a known law of physics inside
a "bubble of deception", but unless the people in the bubble know about
scientific method nothing can ever be proved. I have been reading
about the Joe Cell and this may be a case in point. Stage magicians
may have a "showtime" bubble.

I think that this knowledge is what is part of what is meant by the
"tree of life" in Genesis 3:22-24 (aging by expectation?). Genesis may
have been written to remind us of the time before the fall. (knowledge
is Satan's whip)
The pyramids were built as a reminder that there are rulers over us,

and they can achieve more than we ever can. They also try to
demonstate how "great" things can be achieved by efficient
organization of the people, and this continues to this day with
conquest - machismo of the nation - and skyscrapers (minus two - some
men like attacking the visible power of the establishment).
Quote:

As an experiment I hope at least one reader will try this. If, in an
altered state of consciousness, things seem to be warping, have a look
at a definitive map, and try to change the shapes here. If the map
changes then the countryside or urban landscape must have altered,
because the map is definitive, and is correct, and all maps were
printed without error, because it was expensive. Take a digital photo
after the warp, and visit the place, just to be sure. There must be
total belief in the fact that all substance is fluid.
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Tom111
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

<dwickford@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1151527158.226788.216250@x69g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
I have been reading recently that there is the existence of all
possibilities in the multiverse. i.e. at every possible quantum
"decision" all events actually take place, splitting into a new
universes.

That's one of a number of interesting hypotheses.

Quote:
I'm not fully convinced by this, since it ends up with
quite a lot of universes. There is no need for a split if the outcomes
are never observed and have no impact.

Need has nothing to do with it. Another thing that has nothing to do with
it is whether or not some aspect of reality affects you in any noticeable
way.

Quote:
Altering consciousness may change the expectations, causing unexpected
things to happen i.e. we fall through a different path. There are
several ways to do this, the first is with mind warping drugs, which if
the mind is sufficiently altered, reality can actually change.

Do you consider there to be any difference between what actually happens and
what we perceive to happen? In other words, if our perceptions change, does
that actually change reality, or only the way we approach it?

Quote:
A problem with this is that once the person's drug induced state
diminishes they may expect the same physical reality they left, so
everything returns to normal.

Not quite. A change in neurological activity never exactly returns to its
previous state. Sometimes it gets close, but it's never exactly like it was
before.

Quote:
Also if there are other people observing
this they tend to expect nature to follow its normal course, so
breaking their expectations is often next to impossible.

Why would breaking *their* expectations be any more potent than breaking
*your* expectations?


Quote:
Also if
change is effected, the other people will always have belonged to the
new changed reality, and they will see nothing unusual, so it's a waste
of time telling them.

In which case, *you* wouldn't notice anything different either. Actually,
nobody at all would ever notice that anything unexpected ever happened.
However, in my own experience, I can recall lots of occasions in which I was
surprised by the unexpected. Haven't you? So maybe there's something wrong
with your hypothesis.

Quote:
Another way to alter perception is applied through mental ill health,
which is not recommended. A magician should be able to alter
realities, but again the people will only think they have seen a stage
trick.

One of the most immediate ways of interpreting the experience of a stage
magic trick is to conclude that reality had changed. Our amusement at
ourselves for feeling that way (even though we know it's not true) is what
makes stage magic such an enjoyable form of entertainment.

Quote:
Probably the easiest way to become a magician is to start at an
early age, and never be told that's impossible, or the like.

Reality teaches its own lessons, no matter what we are told or not told.

Quote:
As an experiment I hope at least one reader will try this. If, in an
altered state of consciousness, things seem to be warping, have a look
at a definitive map, and try to change the shapes here. If the map
changes then the countryside or urban landscape must have altered,
because the map is definitive, and is correct, and all maps were
printed without error, because it was expensive.

Maps are all infallible? No, that turns out not to be the case.

http://www.mcwetboy.net/maproom/categories/mapping_errors.phtml

http://www.biogeog.ucsb.edu/pubs/Theses%20and%20Dissertations/abs/MODELING%20ERRORS%20IN%20DIGITAL%20LANDUSE_LANDCOVER%20MAPS.htm

Nor is it true that if the territory changes the maps all change accordingly
or vice versa.
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dwickford@yahoo.com
science forum beginner


Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:33 pm    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
Quote:
dwickford@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1151527158.226788.216250@x69g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
I have been reading recently that there is the existence of all
possibilities in the multiverse. i.e. at every possible quantum
"decision" all events actually take place, splitting into a new
universes.

That's one of a number of interesting hypotheses.

I'm not fully convinced by this, since it ends up with
quite a lot of universes. There is no need for a split if the outcomes
are never observed and have no impact.

Need has nothing to do with it. Another thing that has nothing to do with
it is whether or not some aspect of reality affects you in any noticeable
way.

If the universe is never observed why have it?


Quote:
Altering consciousness may change the expectations, causing unexpected
things to happen i.e. we fall through a different path. There are
several ways to do this, the first is with mind warping drugs, which if
the mind is sufficiently altered, reality can actually change.

Do you consider there to be any difference between what actually happens and
what we perceive to happen? In other words, if our perceptions change, does
that actually change reality, or only the way we approach it?

That is why education and writing, for example are important, so we do

not sway in the breeze. Perhaps the conciousness can side-slip into an
alternative reality, (i.e. with magickal changes) and stay there.
Quote:
A problem with this is that once the person's drug induced state
diminishes they may expect the same physical reality they left, so
everything returns to normal.

Not quite. A change in neurological activity never exactly returns to its
previous state. Sometimes it gets close, but it's never exactly like it was
before.

It sounds like you have more experience than me.
Also if there are other people observing
this they tend to expect nature to follow its normal course, so
breaking their expectations is often next to impossible.

Why would breaking *their* expectations be any more potent than breaking
*your* expectations?
Your expectation may be to have an altered reality, so it doesn't break

yours.
Quote:

Also if
change is effected, the other people will always have belonged to the
new changed reality, and they will see nothing unusual, so it's a waste
of time telling them.

In which case, *you* wouldn't notice anything different either. Actually,
nobody at all would ever notice that anything unexpected ever happened.
However, in my own experience, I can recall lots of occasions in which I was
surprised by the unexpected. Haven't you? So maybe there's something wrong
with your hypothesis.

I did have strong deja-vu once. I was going down a multi-storey car

park, and I think on the next level down there were more or less the
same cars as the level above.
Quote:
Another way to alter perception is applied through mental ill health,
which is not recommended. A magician should be able to alter
realities, but again the people will only think they have seen a stage
trick.

One of the most immediate ways of interpreting the experience of a stage
magic trick is to conclude that reality had changed. Our amusement at
ourselves for feeling that way (even though we know it's not true) is what
makes stage magic such an enjoyable form of entertainment.

Probably the easiest way to become a magician is to start at an
early age, and never be told that's impossible, or the like.

Reality teaches its own lessons, no matter what we are told or not told.

That's a let down, but it's true.
As an experiment I hope at least one reader will try this. If, in an
altered state of consciousness, things seem to be warping, have a look
at a definitive map, and try to change the shapes here. If the map
changes then the countryside or urban landscape must have altered,
because the map is definitive, and is correct, and all maps were
printed without error, because it was expensive.

Maps are all infallible? No, that turns out not to be the case.
The may may be printed with a new road, and some sucker believes the

map so completely that the road appears. (BTW I am saving for my
elective lobotomy.)
Quote:

http://www.mcwetboy.net/maproom/categories/mapping_errors.phtml

http://www.biogeog.ucsb.edu/pubs/Theses%20and%20Dissertations/abs/MODELING%20ERRORS%20IN%20DIGITAL%20LANDUSE_LANDCOVER%20MAPS.htm

Nor is it true that if the territory changes the maps all change accordingly
or vice versa.
I'd love to see a pilot or mini series with these ideas. e.g. some

graduate students invent a new drug called phlex, which gets them
tripping through alternative realities. For sustainability they may
need super powers, (e.g. Buffy, different rules of physics) but
certainly there should be some good versus evil, or maybe just some
adventure and escape.
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Tom111
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

<dwickford@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1151613223.936716.157240@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

Tom wrote:

Need has nothing to do with it. Another thing that has nothing to do
with
it is whether or not some aspect of reality affects you in any noticeable
way.

If the universe is never observed why have it?

You don't have it. You are a part of it. The universe was not created for
your entertainment. It's entertainment value to you is just a pleasant side
effect of your embeddedness within it.

Quote:
Do you consider there to be any difference between what actually happens
and
what we perceive to happen? In other words, if our perceptions change,
does
that actually change reality, or only the way we approach it?

That is why education and writing, for example are important, so we do
not sway in the breeze. Perhaps the conciousness can side-slip into an
alternative reality, (i.e. with magickal changes) and stay there.

So, does that mean you believe that there *is* a difference or that there
*isn't* a difference?

Quote:
A problem with this is that once the person's drug induced state
diminishes they may expect the same physical reality they left, so
everything returns to normal.

Not quite. A change in neurological activity never exactly returns to
its
previous state. Sometimes it gets close, but it's never exactly like it
was
before.

It sounds like you have more experience than me.

Possibly. Experience is cumulative. That's why you can never completely
return to a condition of pre-experience.

Quote:
Also if there are other people observing
this they tend to expect nature to follow its normal course, so
breaking their expectations is often next to impossible.

Why would breaking *their* expectations be any more potent than breaking
*your* expectations?

Your expectation may be to have an altered reality, so it doesn't break
yours.

But why would breaking *their* expectations be any more potent than breaking
*your* expectations? Or are you of the opinion that nobody ever experiences
anything that they didn't expect, no matter how much those expectations
contradict one another?

Quote:
In which case, *you* wouldn't notice anything different either.
Actually,
nobody at all would ever notice that anything unexpected ever happened.
However, in my own experience, I can recall lots of occasions in which I
was
surprised by the unexpected. Haven't you? So maybe there's something
wrong
with your hypothesis.

I did have strong deja-vu once. I was going down a multi-storey car
park, and I think on the next level down there were more or less the
same cars as the level above.

What has that got to do with experiencing the unexpected?

You seem to be answering entirely different questions than the ones I'm
asking.

Quote:
Reality teaches its own lessons, no matter what we are told or not told.

That's a let down, but it's true.

Personally, I think it's a very good thing. Look at how crappy the universe
would be is everything you had been told was true.
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2
science forum beginner


Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

<dwickford@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1151527158.226788.216250@x69g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
I have been reading recently that there is the existence of all
possibilities in the multiverse. i.e. at every possible quantum
"decision" all events actually take place, splitting into a new
universes. [...]

Your post reads like one fishing for a sci-fi theme, so as a writer I shall
make suggestions.

First, if there is an infinity-of-universes then anything you can imagine
exists in one of them. It is a necessary truth. So be comforted that
somewhere you are correct, but not here and now.

Quote:
Altering consciousness may change the expectations, causing unexpected
things to happen i.e. we fall through a different path. There are
several ways to do this, the first is with mind warping drugs, which if
the mind is sufficiently altered, reality can actually change. A
problem with this is that once the person's drug induced state
diminishes they may expect the same physical reality they left, so
everything returns to normal. [...]

You cannot exist in a universe inconsistent with your biological state, and
your so-called mental state is of the same consequence. A person whos
personality survives a mind altering episode has the same brain he went in
with, therefore even if his life vector makes a different path he cannot see
it; call it another anthropic principle if you wish. Now it is possible that
you have already died once or more in what you consider your current
lifetime. Your life as you perceive it has become better, or not. For an
answer to which direction you have taken, look to your Mother-In-Law.

Quote:
[...]
The importance of catholic (small c) belief is that when everyone
believes in regular cause and effect all move together, grow old and
die together, and the old order continues (disguised as the new world
order).

Extrapolation is risky here. Your new world order will require a new
literature. I suggest you delve into the philosophers who create new
language in order to avoid the difficulties of the current. A short-cut to
breaking your brain would be to read too much feminist philosphy. There is a
ton of it under the piles of romance novels in junque shops. If you cannot
find it, then Hegel will do.

Quote:
As an experiment I hope at least one reader will try this. If, in an
altered state of consciousness, things seem to be warping, have a look
at a definitive map, and try to change the shapes here. [...]

Well, I have done just that. I smoked one hell of a bong of good weed,
looked at my wife and was convinced of her new, most fascinating topography.
The next morning she was the same as before. Damnit! But her mother seems
most attractive.
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Martin Swain
science forum beginner


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

2 wrote:

Quote:
dwickford@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1151527158.226788.216250@x69g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...


I have been reading recently that there is the existence of all
possibilities in the multiverse. i.e. at every possible quantum
"decision" all events actually take place, splitting into a new
universes. [...]



Your post reads like one fishing for a sci-fi theme, so as a writer I shall
make suggestions.

First, if there is an infinity-of-universes then anything you can imagine
exists in one of them. It is a necessary truth. So be comforted that
somewhere you are correct, but not here and now.



Altering consciousness may change the expectations, causing unexpected
things to happen i.e. we fall through a different path. There are
several ways to do this, the first is with mind warping drugs, which if
the mind is sufficiently altered, reality can actually change. A
problem with this is that once the person's drug induced state
diminishes they may expect the same physical reality they left, so
everything returns to normal. [...]



You cannot exist in a universe inconsistent with your biological state, and
your so-called mental state is of the same consequence. A person whos
personality survives a mind altering episode has the same brain he went in
with, therefore even if his life vector makes a different path he cannot see
it; call it another anthropic principle if you wish. Now it is possible that
you have already died once or more in what you consider your current
lifetime. Your life as you perceive it has become better, or not. For an
answer to which direction you have taken, look to your Mother-In-Law.



[...]
The importance of catholic (small c) belief is that when everyone
believes in regular cause and effect all move together, grow old and
die together, and the old order continues (disguised as the new world
order).



Extrapolation is risky here. Your new world order will require a new
literature. I suggest you delve into the philosophers who create new
language in order to avoid the difficulties of the current. A short-cut to
breaking your brain would be to read too much feminist philosphy. There is a
ton of it under the piles of romance novels in junque shops. If you cannot
find it, then Hegel will do.



As an experiment I hope at least one reader will try this. If, in an
altered state of consciousness, things seem to be warping, have a look
at a definitive map, and try to change the shapes here. [...]



Well, I have done just that. I smoked one hell of a bong of good weed,
looked at my wife and was convinced of her new, most fascinating topography.
The next morning she was the same as before. Damnit! But her mother seems
most attractive.





bong the gong, bro


shallow people... say hello!
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Tom111
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:12aqautrfmu5c29@news.supernews.com...
Quote:
dwickford@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1151527158.226788.216250@x69g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
I have been reading recently that there is the existence of all
possibilities in the multiverse. i.e. at every possible quantum
"decision" all events actually take place, splitting into a new
universes. [...]

Your post reads like one fishing for a sci-fi theme, so as a writer I
shall make suggestions.

First, if there is an infinity-of-universes then anything you can imagine
exists in one of them. It is a necessary truth. So be comforted that
somewhere you are correct, but not here and now.

Well, not *anything* you can imagine. For example, you might imagine that
the laws of the multiverse work differently than they really do. No matter
how many decision-splits there are in the multiverse, the laws of the
multiverse must necessarily be obeyed since each one of the decision-splits
must conform to the laws governing those splits. No amount of variations on
possible themes will result in the impossible happening.

Of course, we can never say for sure that we know what those laws really are
or what possible combination of variables might produce a result that seems
impossible, but really isn't. So while we might believe something to be
impossible under the laws of the multiverse, we might be wrong.

Anything might happen, but not everything must happen.
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2
science forum beginner


Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

"Tom" <askpermission@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:R_udnZoRSdU1ojDZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com...
Quote:

"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote:

First, if there is an infinity-of-universes then anything you can imagine
exists in one of them. It is a necessary truth. So be comforted that
somewhere you are correct, but not here and now.

Well, not *anything* you can imagine. For example, you might imagine that
the laws of the multiverse work differently than they really do. No
matter how many decision-splits there are in the multiverse, the laws of
the multiverse must necessarily be obeyed since each one of the
decision-splits must conform to the laws governing those splits. No
amount of variations on possible themes will result in the impossible
happening.

Infinity means just exactly that - unbounded, endless possible universes.
Surely one of them has physics our impoverished imagination cannot conceive
of, and that includes the universe which does not have persons who are stuck
in decision-split concepts, or persons at all!

Quote:
Anything might happen, but not everything must happen.

RE: my paragraph above. Universes do not depend upon us to imagine them.
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Erwin Hessle
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

2 wrote:
Quote:
"Tom" <askpermission@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:R_udnZoRSdU1ojDZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote:

First, if there is an infinity-of-universes then anything you can imagine
exists in one of them. It is a necessary truth. So be comforted that
somewhere you are correct, but not here and now.

Well, not *anything* you can imagine. For example, you might imagine that
the laws of the multiverse work differently than they really do. No
matter how many decision-splits there are in the multiverse, the laws of
the multiverse must necessarily be obeyed since each one of the
decision-splits must conform to the laws governing those splits. No
amount of variations on possible themes will result in the impossible
happening.

Infinity means just exactly that - unbounded, endless possible universes.

No it doesn't. There could be three distinct universes infinitely
repeated, for all you know.

Erwin Hessle, 8=3
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Martin Swain
science forum beginner


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

Erwin Hessle wrote:

Quote:
2 wrote:


"Tom" <askpermission@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:R_udnZoRSdU1ojDZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com...


"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote:


First, if there is an infinity-of-universes then anything you can imagine
exists in one of them. It is a necessary truth. So be comforted that
somewhere you are correct, but not here and now.


Well, not *anything* you can imagine. For example, you might imagine that
the laws of the multiverse work differently than they really do. No
matter how many decision-splits there are in the multiverse, the laws of
the multiverse must necessarily be obeyed since each one of the
decision-splits must conform to the laws governing those splits. No
amount of variations on possible themes will result in the impossible
happening.


Infinity means just exactly that - unbounded, endless possible universes.



No it doesn't. There could be three distinct universes infinitely
repeated, for all you know.

Erwin Hessle, 8=3



No, because if they were identical, and repeated, they would be the same

one, by the identity principle.

Put your pointy hat on. Take it off when you can keep up.
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Erwin Hessle
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:21 pm    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

Martin Swain wrote:
Quote:
Erwin Hessle wrote:

2 wrote:


"Tom" <askpermission@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:R_udnZoRSdU1ojDZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com...


"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote:


First, if there is an infinity-of-universes then anything you can imagine
exists in one of them. It is a necessary truth. So be comforted that
somewhere you are correct, but not here and now.


Well, not *anything* you can imagine. For example, you might imagine that
the laws of the multiverse work differently than they really do. No
matter how many decision-splits there are in the multiverse, the laws of
the multiverse must necessarily be obeyed since each one of the
decision-splits must conform to the laws governing those splits. No
amount of variations on possible themes will result in the impossible
happening.


Infinity means just exactly that - unbounded, endless possible universes.



No it doesn't. There could be three distinct universes infinitely
repeated, for all you know.

Erwin Hessle, 8=3



No, because if they were identical, and repeated, they would be the same
one, by the identity principle.


You're the one who said "identical", Einstein. If you listen to your
own ideas, instead of mine, you're bound to find them full of errors.

Quote:
Put your pointy hat on. Take it off when you can keep up.

Yet again, your need to try and "score points" off me - arising as it
does from your demonstrated emotional immaturity - has again left you
looking like a petulant child.

Nice try, though.

And stop posting in HTML like a cunt.

Erwin Hessle, 8=3
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Martin Swain
science forum beginner


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:37 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:12ar11ohlehra9@news.supernews.com...
Quote:
"Tom" <askpermission@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:R_udnZoRSdU1ojDZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote:

First, if there is an infinity-of-universes then anything you can
imagine exists in one of them. It is a necessary truth. So be comforted
that somewhere you are correct, but not here and now.

Well, not *anything* you can imagine. For example, you might imagine
that the laws of the multiverse work differently than they really do. No
matter how many decision-splits there are in the multiverse, the laws of
the multiverse must necessarily be obeyed since each one of the
decision-splits must conform to the laws governing those splits. No
amount of variations on possible themes will result in the impossible
happening.

Infinity means just exactly that - unbounded, endless possible universes.
Surely one of them has physics our impoverished imagination cannot
conceive of, and that includes the universe which does not have persons
who are stuck in decision-split concepts, or persons at all!


Yes that's right. Using the idea here defined a decision point, over
an infinite span of decisions all possibilities would occur. Why? Because
that's what infinite means. Someone could say "yes, but what if it just
repeats
infinitely?" except, by allowing that, you've put a limit on it, saying it
repeats infinitely
and called it done, but infinite means there is always a next one. The set
of integers,
for instance, is infinite. There is no possible integer that is not in it.
Similary, the set
of decisions-splits (here defined), if infinite, would contain all the
possible combinations thereof.

I realise the OP doesn't need this explained but I thought maybe someone
else
might benefit.

Quote:
Anything might happen, but not everything must happen.

RE: my paragraph above. Universes do not depend upon us to imagine them.

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Erwin Hessle
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:44 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

Martin Swain wrote:
Quote:
"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:12ar11ohlehra9@news.supernews.com...
"Tom" <askpermission@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:R_udnZoRSdU1ojDZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote:

First, if there is an infinity-of-universes then anything you can
imagine exists in one of them. It is a necessary truth. So be comforted
that somewhere you are correct, but not here and now.

Well, not *anything* you can imagine. For example, you might imagine
that the laws of the multiverse work differently than they really do. No
matter how many decision-splits there are in the multiverse, the laws of
the multiverse must necessarily be obeyed since each one of the
decision-splits must conform to the laws governing those splits. No
amount of variations on possible themes will result in the impossible
happening.

Infinity means just exactly that - unbounded, endless possible universes.
Surely one of them has physics our impoverished imagination cannot
conceive of, and that includes the universe which does not have persons
who are stuck in decision-split concepts, or persons at all!


Yes that's right. Using the idea here defined a decision point, over
an infinite span of decisions all possibilities would occur. Why? Because
that's what infinite means. Someone could say "yes, but what if it just
repeats
infinitely?" except, by allowing that, you've put a limit on it, saying it
repeats infinitely
and called it done, but infinite means there is always a next one.

If you say it can't repeat indefinitely, you've put a limit on it.

Get out of that one, Einstein.

Erwin Hessle, 8=3
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2
science forum beginner


Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:52 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote:

Quote:
No it doesn't. There could be three distinct universes infinitely
repeated, for all you know.

That was not the posit, you moron. The posit was an infinity of universes.
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Erwin Hessle
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:57 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

2 wrote:
Quote:
"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote:

No it doesn't. There could be three distinct universes infinitely
repeated, for all you know.

That was not the posit, you moron. The posit was an infinity of universes.

Three distinct universes repeated an infinite number of times *is* an
infinity of universes, cockfag.

Erwin Hessle, 8=3
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