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A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief.
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Erwin Hessle
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:57 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

2 wrote:
Quote:
"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote:

No it doesn't. There could be three distinct universes infinitely
repeated, for all you know.

That was not the posit, you moron. The posit was an infinity of universes.

Three distinct universes repeated an infinite number of times *is* an
infinity of universes, cockfag.

Erwin Hessle, 8=3
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2
science forum beginner


Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:01 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote in message
news:1152233847.986339.257650@s53g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
2 wrote:

That was not the posit, you moron. The posit was an infinity of
universes.

Three distinct universes repeated an infinite number of times *is* an
infinity of universes, cockfag.

You are using metrics not of the other universes. Get it? Get over it!
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Erwin Hessle
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:04 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

2 wrote:
Quote:
"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote in message
news:1152233847.986339.257650@s53g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
2 wrote:

That was not the posit, you moron. The posit was an infinity of
universes.

Three distinct universes repeated an infinite number of times *is* an
infinity of universes, cockfag.

You are using metrics not of the other universes. Get it? Get over it!

What the f*** does that have to do with anything?

Erwin Hessle, 8=3
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Martin Swain
science forum beginner


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:06 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote in message
news:1152233057.712110.127920@k73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Martin Swain wrote:
"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:12ar11ohlehra9@news.supernews.com...
"Tom" <askpermission@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:R_udnZoRSdU1ojDZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote:

First, if there is an infinity-of-universes then anything you can
imagine exists in one of them. It is a necessary truth. So be
comforted
that somewhere you are correct, but not here and now.

Well, not *anything* you can imagine. For example, you might imagine
that the laws of the multiverse work differently than they really do.
No
matter how many decision-splits there are in the multiverse, the laws
of
the multiverse must necessarily be obeyed since each one of the
decision-splits must conform to the laws governing those splits. No
amount of variations on possible themes will result in the impossible
happening.

Infinity means just exactly that - unbounded, endless possible
universes.
Surely one of them has physics our impoverished imagination cannot
conceive of, and that includes the universe which does not have persons
who are stuck in decision-split concepts, or persons at all!


Yes that's right. Using the idea here defined a decision point, over
an infinite span of decisions all possibilities would occur. Why? Because
that's what infinite means. Someone could say "yes, but what if it just
repeats
infinitely?" except, by allowing that, you've put a limit on it, saying
it
repeats infinitely
and called it done, but infinite means there is always a next one.

If you say it can't repeat indefinitely, you've put a limit on it.

Well, in the first place, indefinitely is not infinitley.

In the second place, in terms of the contents of the set, I haven't
put a limit on the number of elements. I have only described some
properties of the set.

Quote:

Get out of that one, Einstein.

I dunno, are you convinced? The fact is it's a bit of weird construct.
Infinite universes? Infinity is an odd concept, it doesn't really have
any practical manifestations. I suppose thinking about whole universes
is probably about the only fun thing to do with that idea.

Quote:
Erwin Hessle, 8=3
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Erwin Hessle
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:12 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

Martin Swain wrote:
Quote:
"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote in message
news:1152233057.712110.127920@k73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Martin Swain wrote:
"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:12ar11ohlehra9@news.supernews.com...
"Tom" <askpermission@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:R_udnZoRSdU1ojDZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote:

First, if there is an infinity-of-universes then anything you can
imagine exists in one of them. It is a necessary truth. So be
comforted
that somewhere you are correct, but not here and now.

Well, not *anything* you can imagine. For example, you might imagine
that the laws of the multiverse work differently than they really do.
No
matter how many decision-splits there are in the multiverse, the laws
of
the multiverse must necessarily be obeyed since each one of the
decision-splits must conform to the laws governing those splits. No
amount of variations on possible themes will result in the impossible
happening.

Infinity means just exactly that - unbounded, endless possible
universes.
Surely one of them has physics our impoverished imagination cannot
conceive of, and that includes the universe which does not have persons
who are stuck in decision-split concepts, or persons at all!


Yes that's right. Using the idea here defined a decision point, over
an infinite span of decisions all possibilities would occur. Why? Because
that's what infinite means. Someone could say "yes, but what if it just
repeats
infinitely?" except, by allowing that, you've put a limit on it, saying
it
repeats infinitely
and called it done, but infinite means there is always a next one.

If you say it can't repeat indefinitely, you've put a limit on it.

Well, in the first place, indefinitely is not infinitley.

Alright, I'll give you that one.

Quote:
In the second place, in terms of the contents of the set, I haven't
put a limit on the number of elements. I have only described some
properties of the set.

Sounds like exactly what I did, to me.

Quote:
Get out of that one, Einstein.

I dunno, are you convinced?

I was never convinced in the first place. Frankly, I think this whole
idea of infinite universes arises as a result of an imperfect model
constructed to overcome practical difficulties in measurement. I don't
think anyone seriously believes they might actually exist.

Erwin Hessle, 8=3
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2
science forum beginner


Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:25 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote:

Quote:
You are using metrics not of the other universes. Get it? Get over it!

What the f*** does that have to do with anything?

Hey, Erwin. Why don't you crawl to a pub and do what you do best: pass the
f*** out of this universe like a good boy.
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Erwin Hessle
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:28 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

2 wrote:
Quote:
"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote:

You are using metrics not of the other universes. Get it? Get over it!

What the f*** does that have to do with anything?

Hey, Erwin. Why don't you crawl to a pub and do what you do best: pass the
f*** out of this universe like a good boy.

Because kicking you is far more entertaining.

Erwin Hessle, 8=3
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2
science forum beginner


Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:30 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote:

Quote:
I was never convinced in the first place. Frankly, I think this whole
idea of infinite universes arises as a result of an imperfect model
constructed to overcome practical difficulties in measurement. I don't
think anyone seriously believes they might actually exist.

That's not the subject, s**t For Brains. Stick with the posit. Nobody
really cares about your opinion. Everyone has one. You know the drill.
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Martin Swain
science forum beginner


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:30 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote in message
news:1152234728.739431.227540@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

Martin Swain wrote:
"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote in message
news:1152233057.712110.127920@k73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Martin Swain wrote:
"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:12ar11ohlehra9@news.supernews.com...
"Tom" <askpermission@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:R_udnZoRSdU1ojDZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote:

First, if there is an infinity-of-universes then anything you can
imagine exists in one of them. It is a necessary truth. So be
comforted
that somewhere you are correct, but not here and now.

Well, not *anything* you can imagine. For example, you might
imagine
that the laws of the multiverse work differently than they really
do.
No
matter how many decision-splits there are in the multiverse, the
laws
of
the multiverse must necessarily be obeyed since each one of the
decision-splits must conform to the laws governing those splits.
No
amount of variations on possible themes will result in the
impossible
happening.

Infinity means just exactly that - unbounded, endless possible
universes.
Surely one of them has physics our impoverished imagination cannot
conceive of, and that includes the universe which does not have
persons
who are stuck in decision-split concepts, or persons at all!


Yes that's right. Using the idea here defined a decision point, over
an infinite span of decisions all possibilities would occur. Why?
Because
that's what infinite means. Someone could say "yes, but what if it
just
repeats
infinitely?" except, by allowing that, you've put a limit on it,
saying
it
repeats infinitely
and called it done, but infinite means there is always a next one.

If you say it can't repeat indefinitely, you've put a limit on it.

Well, in the first place, indefinitely is not infinitley.

Alright, I'll give you that one.

In the second place, in terms of the contents of the set, I haven't
put a limit on the number of elements. I have only described some
properties of the set.

Sounds like exactly what I did, to me.

Not exactly. An infinite set of possibilites would contain
the one where things repeated infinitely. An infinite number of
them in fact. Saying only 1 of those inifinitely repeating possibilities
could be in the set would be placing a limit on its contents, or more
accurately defining a subset, which would no longer be the set.

But as I said it's just a weird construct anyway and I don't
want to get too carried away with it.

In fact, I think I can say it zen style, with a picture. Hope you like it.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e275/martin_swain/MtKidd-WedgePond.jpg

Quote:
Get out of that one, Einstein.

I dunno, are you convinced?

I was never convinced in the first place. Frankly, I think this whole
idea of infinite universes arises as a result of an imperfect model
constructed to overcome practical difficulties in measurement. I don't
think anyone seriously believes they might actually exist.

Erwin Hessle, 8=3
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Erwin Hessle
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:33 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

Martin Swain wrote:
Quote:
"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote in message
news:1152234728.739431.227540@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Martin Swain wrote:
"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote in message
news:1152233057.712110.127920@k73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Martin Swain wrote:
"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:12ar11ohlehra9@news.supernews.com...
"Tom" <askpermission@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:R_udnZoRSdU1ojDZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote:

First, if there is an infinity-of-universes then anything you can
imagine exists in one of them. It is a necessary truth. So be
comforted
that somewhere you are correct, but not here and now.

Well, not *anything* you can imagine. For example, you might
imagine
that the laws of the multiverse work differently than they really
do.
No
matter how many decision-splits there are in the multiverse, the
laws
of
the multiverse must necessarily be obeyed since each one of the
decision-splits must conform to the laws governing those splits.
No
amount of variations on possible themes will result in the
impossible
happening.

Infinity means just exactly that - unbounded, endless possible
universes.
Surely one of them has physics our impoverished imagination cannot
conceive of, and that includes the universe which does not have
persons
who are stuck in decision-split concepts, or persons at all!


Yes that's right. Using the idea here defined a decision point, over
an infinite span of decisions all possibilities would occur. Why?
Because
that's what infinite means. Someone could say "yes, but what if it
just
repeats
infinitely?" except, by allowing that, you've put a limit on it,
saying
it
repeats infinitely
and called it done, but infinite means there is always a next one.

If you say it can't repeat indefinitely, you've put a limit on it.

Well, in the first place, indefinitely is not infinitley.

Alright, I'll give you that one.

In the second place, in terms of the contents of the set, I haven't
put a limit on the number of elements. I have only described some
properties of the set.

Sounds like exactly what I did, to me.

Not exactly. An infinite set of possibilites would contain
the one where things repeated infinitely. An infinite number of
them in fact. Saying only 1 of those inifinitely repeating possibilities
could be in the set would be placing a limit on its contents, or more
accurately defining a subset, which would no longer be the set.

Except we weren't talking about an "infinite set of possibilities", we
were talking about an "infinity-of-universes."

Quote:
But as I said it's just a weird construct anyway and I don't
want to get too carried away with it.

In fact, I think I can say it zen style, with a picture. Hope you like it.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e275/martin_swain/MtKidd-WedgePond.jpg

Most sensible thing I've ever heard you say.

Erwin Hessle, 8=3
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Martin Swain
science forum beginner


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:38 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote in message
news:1152236008.433059.7090@s16g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

Martin Swain wrote:
"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote in message
news:1152234728.739431.227540@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Martin Swain wrote:
"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote in message
news:1152233057.712110.127920@k73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Martin Swain wrote:
"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:12ar11ohlehra9@news.supernews.com...
"Tom" <askpermission@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:R_udnZoRSdU1ojDZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote:

First, if there is an infinity-of-universes then anything you
can
imagine exists in one of them. It is a necessary truth. So be
comforted
that somewhere you are correct, but not here and now.

Well, not *anything* you can imagine. For example, you might
imagine
that the laws of the multiverse work differently than they
really
do.
No
matter how many decision-splits there are in the multiverse, the
laws
of
the multiverse must necessarily be obeyed since each one of the
decision-splits must conform to the laws governing those splits.
No
amount of variations on possible themes will result in the
impossible
happening.

Infinity means just exactly that - unbounded, endless possible
universes.
Surely one of them has physics our impoverished imagination
cannot
conceive of, and that includes the universe which does not have
persons
who are stuck in decision-split concepts, or persons at all!


Yes that's right. Using the idea here defined a decision point,
over
an infinite span of decisions all possibilities would occur. Why?
Because
that's what infinite means. Someone could say "yes, but what if it
just
repeats
infinitely?" except, by allowing that, you've put a limit on it,
saying
it
repeats infinitely
and called it done, but infinite means there is always a next one.

If you say it can't repeat indefinitely, you've put a limit on it.

Well, in the first place, indefinitely is not infinitley.

Alright, I'll give you that one.

In the second place, in terms of the contents of the set, I haven't
put a limit on the number of elements. I have only described some
properties of the set.

Sounds like exactly what I did, to me.

Not exactly. An infinite set of possibilites would contain
the one where things repeated infinitely. An infinite number of
them in fact. Saying only 1 of those inifinitely repeating possibilities
could be in the set would be placing a limit on its contents, or more
accurately defining a subset, which would no longer be the set.

Except we weren't talking about an "infinite set of possibilities", we
were talking about an "infinity-of-universes."

Yup, that's what infinity means.

Quote:
But as I said it's just a weird construct anyway and I don't
want to get too carried away with it.

In fact, I think I can say it zen style, with a picture. Hope you like
it.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e275/martin_swain/MtKidd-WedgePond.jpg

Most sensible thing I've ever heard you say.

Glad you liked it.

Quote:

Erwin Hessle, 8=3
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Martin Swain
science forum beginner


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:42 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

"Martin Swain" <martin_swain@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BOirg.43666$B91.39308@edtnps82...
Quote:

"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote in message
news:1152234728.739431.227540@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Martin Swain wrote:
"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote in message
news:1152233057.712110.127920@k73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Martin Swain wrote:
"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:12ar11ohlehra9@news.supernews.com...
"Tom" <askpermission@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:R_udnZoRSdU1ojDZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote:

First, if there is an infinity-of-universes then anything you can
imagine exists in one of them. It is a necessary truth. So be
comforted
that somewhere you are correct, but not here and now.

Well, not *anything* you can imagine. For example, you might
imagine
that the laws of the multiverse work differently than they really
do.
No
matter how many decision-splits there are in the multiverse, the
laws
of
the multiverse must necessarily be obeyed since each one of the
decision-splits must conform to the laws governing those splits.
No
amount of variations on possible themes will result in the
impossible
happening.

Infinity means just exactly that - unbounded, endless possible
universes.
Surely one of them has physics our impoverished imagination cannot
conceive of, and that includes the universe which does not have
persons
who are stuck in decision-split concepts, or persons at all!


Yes that's right. Using the idea here defined a decision point, over
an infinite span of decisions all possibilities would occur. Why?
Because
that's what infinite means. Someone could say "yes, but what if it
just
repeats
infinitely?" except, by allowing that, you've put a limit on it,
saying
it
repeats infinitely
and called it done, but infinite means there is always a next one.

If you say it can't repeat indefinitely, you've put a limit on it.

Well, in the first place, indefinitely is not infinitley.

Alright, I'll give you that one.

In the second place, in terms of the contents of the set, I haven't
put a limit on the number of elements. I have only described some
properties of the set.

Sounds like exactly what I did, to me.

Not exactly. An infinite set of possibilites would contain
the one where things repeated infinitely. An infinite number of
them in fact. Saying only 1 of those inifinitely repeating possibilities
could be in the set would be placing a limit on its contents, or more
accurately defining a subset, which would no longer be the set.

But as I said it's just a weird construct anyway and I don't
want to get too carried away with it.

In fact, I think I can say it zen style, with a picture. Hope you like it.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e275/martin_swain/MtKidd-WedgePond.jpg

Get out of that one, Einstein.

I dunno, are you convinced?

I was never convinced in the first place. Frankly, I think this whole
idea of infinite universes arises as a result of an imperfect model
constructed to overcome practical difficulties in measurement. I don't
think anyone seriously believes they might actually exist.

Erwin Hessle, 8=3

If it arises from anything, it's the bottom of the pond. I don't think
anyone
seriously believes anything exists.

Ha.

There, I just farted too. Haha.

Quote:

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Tom111
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:10 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:12ar11ohlehra9@news.supernews.com...
Quote:
"Tom" <askpermission@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:R_udnZoRSdU1ojDZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote:

First, if there is an infinity-of-universes then anything you can
imagine exists in one of them. It is a necessary truth. So be comforted
that somewhere you are correct, but not here and now.

Well, not *anything* you can imagine. For example, you might imagine
that the laws of the multiverse work differently than they really do. No
matter how many decision-splits there are in the multiverse, the laws of
the multiverse must necessarily be obeyed since each one of the
decision-splits must conform to the laws governing those splits. No
amount of variations on possible themes will result in the impossible
happening.

Infinity means just exactly that - unbounded, endless possible universes.

No sir, infinity can indeed be bounded in specific ways and still be
infinite. How many times can you circumnavigate the earth without falling
off the edge? How many points are there in a line that is only one inch
long?

Quote:
Surely one of them has physics our impoverished imagination cannot
conceive of, and that includes the universe which does not have persons
who are stuck in decision-split concepts, or persons at all!

Again, our estimation of what the rules governing the multiverse are may not
be entirely accurate. Therefore we may believe this or that to be
impossible and be wrong about it. That does not mean that everything must
be possible. Even in an infinite number of possibilities.

Quote:
Anything might happen, but not everything must happen.

RE: my paragraph above. Universes do not depend upon us to imagine them.

Which is another subject altogether.
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Tom111
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote in message
news:1152233847.986339.257650@s53g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
2 wrote:
"Erwin Hessle" <erwin@erwinhessle.com> wrote:

No it doesn't. There could be three distinct universes infinitely
repeated, for all you know.

That was not the posit, you moron. The posit was an infinity of
universes.

Three distinct universes repeated an infinite number of times *is* an
infinity of universes, cockfag.

"Cockfag". The breadth of your invective is truly awe-inspiring.
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Tom111
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:21 am    Post subject: Re: A theory of magick, and the importance of catholic belief. Reply with quote

"Martin Swain" <martin_swain@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:M0irg.43622$B91.23488@edtnps82...
Quote:

"2" <nhoj@droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:12ar11ohlehra9@news.supernews.com...

Infinity means just exactly that - unbounded, endless possible universes.
Surely one of them has physics our impoverished imagination cannot
conceive of, and that includes the universe which does not have persons
who are stuck in decision-split concepts, or persons at all!


Yes that's right. Using the idea here defined a decision point, over
an infinite span of decisions all possibilities would occur. Why? Because
that's what infinite means. Someone could say "yes, but what if it just
repeats
infinitely?" except, by allowing that, you've put a limit on it, saying it
repeats infinitely
and called it done, but infinite means there is always a next one. The set
of integers,
for instance, is infinite.

But there are an infinite number of real numbers that are not integers and
therefore are not going to be included in the infinity of integers. Only
integers belong to that set. The set of all integers is an infinite, but
bounded, set. There are no non-integers that are possioble within the
infinity of integers. Thus, there may be rules that must be obeyed by all
possibilities in the multiverse, even when the number of possibilities
within that multiverse are infinite.
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