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Cobalt Chloride
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donald j haarmann
science forum addict


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Cobalt Chloride Reply with quote

"Tim" <t.k.j@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:Kw%og.18645$ap3.13597@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
| Hi all,
|
| is there a way that I can convert Cobalt Carbonate or Cobalt Oxide into
| Cobalt Chloride? I am wanting to do a chemical garden ( waterglass type )
| with my kids, and the price of the chloride from chem suppliers is too
| expensive for us, however I can get the carbonate and the oxide from a
| ceramics supplier much cheaper. I do have vaious acids and some glasswear,
| and was hoping that there may be a relatively simply process to end up with
| the chloride??
| Any help greatly appreciated.
|
| Regards
|
| Tim


----------
Try eBay.



--
donald j haarmann
-----------------------
Science is a collection
of successful recipes.
Paul Valéry
French poet-essayist
(1871-1945)
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donald j haarmann
science forum addict


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Cobalt Chloride Reply with quote

"Tim" <t.k.j@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:Kw%og.18645$ap3.13597@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
| Hi all,
|
| is there a way that I can convert Cobalt Carbonate or Cobalt Oxide into
| Cobalt Chloride? I am wanting to do a chemical garden ( waterglass type )
| with my kids, and the price of the chloride from chem suppliers is too
| expensive for us, however I can get the carbonate and the oxide from a
| ceramics supplier much cheaper. I do have vaious acids and some glasswear,
| and was hoping that there may be a relatively simply process to end up with
| the chloride??
| Any help greatly appreciated.
|
| Regards
|
| Tim


----------
Either the carbonate or oxide should work w/ hydrochloric acid.

By da - epson salts makes nice short-pointed-white/clear xtls.



--
donald j haarmann
------------------------------------
I do not think it altogether inappropriate that I
introduce myself to this audience. I am the
one who accompanied Jacqueline Kennedy
to Paris and I have enjoyed it.
JFK
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ChemistrySet@OperaMail.co
science forum beginner


Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Cobalt Chloride -- A Sci.Chem Thread which Turned to Questioning Traditional Chemical Set Availability to Children Reply with quote

Quote:
The present dangers are that
grave, that pressing; one might say that we of the West are in a
crucial crises at the moment -- and a moment quickly passes!

CS

Tired of modern so-called "living" -- tune out and turn on to . . .
ClassicalEras. There, let's the few and the brave share our dreams of
other civilisations, better and happier and more civilised and
purposeful living. Shall we . . . ?

R.S.V.P. at http://groups.google.com/group/ClassicalEras .

CS
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<lucasea@sbcglobal.net
science forum addict


Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Cobalt Chloride Reply with quote

"Salmon Egg" <salmonegg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:C0CB4E2E.2FF9C%salmonegg@sbcglobal.net...
Quote:
On 6/30/06 5:12 PM, in article
16jpg.78476$mF2.7474@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net, "donald haarmann"
donald-haarmann@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

Cobalt poisoning in a 6-year-old
The Lancet Vol. 335 pg. 981
[Sanned - and you know what that means!]
most snipped

While it is a sad situation when people die or get very sick, the answer
should not be the elimination of private chemical activity. Cases are
described for Darwin awards by proxy. If parents cannot keep their
children
from poisoning themselves, it is not surprising that the parents
anti-survival genes will not be transmitted by their own children to
future
generations.

Right now, it is very difficult individuals to get chemicals from
scientific
supply houses. I would like to see a solution that does not hamstring
hobby
chemists while reducing the danger for children.


Sorry to say it (or maybe not), that solution is going to have to involve
first shooting all the lawyers. This type of incident could be prevented by
the use of a dying art called "parenting skills". You don't buy your 6 year
old a chemistry set, and if you buy your 14 year old a chemistry set, you
supervise his/her use of it until you are certain that s/he's responsible
enough to keep it out of reach of the 6 year old...or the neighbor's 6 year
old, or his/her 6 year old cousin, etc. etc. One of the major rules of
parenting (I'm not a parent and even I know this) is that kids below a
certain age eat *everything*.

The reason those chemistry set became unavailable is that parents involved
in incidents like this, rather than accepting responsibility for their lack
of parenting skills, chose to blame the manufacturer of the chemistry set,
and they found a lawyer who was willing to enable their bad behavior, and a
jury willing to reward it. It's sad, but that's the way our society is
going. No wonder we're losing our technical edge to India and China--we're
all too busy suing each other to learn to think for ourselves.

Eric Lucas
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ChemistrySet@OperaMail.co
science forum beginner


Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:06 am    Post subject: Re: Cobalt Chloride -- A Sci.Chem Thread which Turned to Questioning Traditional Chemical Set Availability to Children Reply with quote

Mark Thorson wrote:

Quote:
I can see both sides of this issue. I think really
bright kids can improvise most of what they need,
and putting them to a little extra trouble might
itself be educational.

How can an adolescent make Cobalt Chloride, when even experienced
chemists have a difficult time doing it in practice? If they cannot
obtain raw materials, what are they going to do? Do we really want
them to make, for instance, a really impure and unstable KClO3 rather
than to buy the pure, most stable form? Yes, the process is quite
instructive -- something like it should be included in real Chemistry
Sets, but not for the younger adolescent children.

Telling "stories", making up invented letterheads, "borrowing", and
buying via intermediaries -- or, perhaps soon from organised crime --
are all instructive to some degree. But what does it do to the concept
of the Honour System, Truthfullness, and Trust of adults & mature
institutions? They are desparately turning our more assertively
intelligent lads either into liers & hypocrytes or into anti-social
neurotics! In the meantime, all of our manufacturing work migrates
overseas where the youth are better prepared to do the tasks that their
hot-house cousins in the West were never allowed to learn, in the
requisite hands-on manner, with self-initiation and consequent
self-confidence.

Do you know that some children today are forced to don Safety Goggles,
Gloves, and Helmets merely to light sparklers on Independence Day?

The "dangers" of the traditional Gilbert, ChemCraft, Lionel and the
British, Canadian, Australian, and Continental Chemistry Sets are
simply nonexistent -- they are manufactured by people who either make
their living doing it or have neurotic complexes and wish to display
dominance for the sake of dominating. Driving an automobile is more
dangerous for a sixteen year aged student; riding a bicycle for a
younger student; crossing the street in a busy city at any age.

Does anybody want a nation either of master liers & schemers or of
"couch potatoes"? One hopes for the return to sanity before decent
folks cannot stand any more of being manipulated out of living by a
minority gang of hyper-socialists and closet fascists, who have axes to
grind out on our children and ourselves! The real mystery is that the
Citizen is swallowing it all, hook, line, and sinker -- like Charlie
the Tuna clamouring for the StarKist hook
(http://www.starkist.com/template.asp?section=screensaver/index.html --
where now Charlie now is fitted out as a chef to cook his own folk.)

The people manufacturing these hazards are abnormal, and the tail is
wagging the dog, 'And My perople love to have it so.' -- as Deity said
of another effetely preverted race millenia ago. The Romans put it,
'Give us our bread and circuses, and we give to you our Republic.'

No wonder these same "control freaks" want to ban the symbol of
Patriotism par excellence, Fireworks! No, it is not only for children
-- then they might call for age limits -- but also for the mature adult
who has apparently become in their eyes a mere Ward of the State.
Doesn't that *frighten* everyone? No, for then these present whimpers
of supine acquisence would not bubble up and dissapate away in lethargy
again.

Can you "see" any validity in their arguments, honestly Sir? Think,
man; they are agressively -- nay, militantly -- suppressing these
rights not only of adolescent children but of mature adults and parents
-- and of the institution of parenthood itself! This is happening now,
at a fast clip, right here in our own countries -- in which we
ourselves are treated as deracinated aliens! And they, get this, are
doing so under colour of "empowering" the very subjects they are
disposessing of their individual sovereignty!

No, I don't suppose that nations who think that murdering its own
citizens 'in utero', under colour of "reproductive rights", is ready to
face the truth of what it is doing to its own future, no, not at all.
Therefore, it is up to the minority who do recognise these awful truths
most energetically to educate and pursuade their fellow citizens of
them while we are still at liberty to do so.

Do you know that people & institutions today who speak out about these
things risk being referred for tax auditing -- an extremely expensive
and time-consuming procedure to those at whom it is directed. If
something radically powerful is not done now, this day, to correct the
egregious problem, there will not be an opportunity peacefully to do so
tomorrow -- that is undisputable fact. The present dangers are that
grave, that pressing; one might say that we of the West are in a
crucial crises at the moment -- and a moment quickly passes!

CS
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Mark Thorson
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 102

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:07 am    Post subject: Re: Cobalt Chloride -- A Sci.Chem Thread which Turned to Questioning Traditional Chemical Set Availability to Children Reply with quote

ChemistrySet@OperaMail.com wrote:
Quote:

It is time to stand up as one and shout with all of our
might -- Give us Liberty again; restore the spirit of the Magna Carta;
leave chemistry sets to parents to decide vis-ŕ-vis the readiness of
their children for Cobalt Chloride et al. If there is legitimate
concern in areas where working parents cannot properly supervise young
children, then let the local jurisdictions put a reasonable age limit
on children's purchasing of chemicals & sets (i.e., for themselves,
apart from parent or guardian) -- say fourteen or sixteen years.

I can see both sides of this issue. I think really
bright kids can improvise most of what they need,
and putting them to a little extra trouble might
itself be educational.

Here's some examples of what you can do:
http://www.fortliberty.org/military-library/improvised-munitions-handbook/improvised-munitions-handbook.shtml
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Dirk Bruere
science forum addict


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:06 am    Post subject: Re: Cobalt Chloride -- A Sci.Chem Thread which Turned to Questioning Traditional Chemical Set Availability to Children Reply with quote

Mark Thorson wrote:
Quote:
ChemistrySet@OperaMail.com wrote:
It is time to stand up as one and shout with all of our
might -- Give us Liberty again; restore the spirit of the Magna Carta;
leave chemistry sets to parents to decide vis-ŕ-vis the readiness of
their children for Cobalt Chloride et al. If there is legitimate
concern in areas where working parents cannot properly supervise young
children, then let the local jurisdictions put a reasonable age limit
on children's purchasing of chemicals & sets (i.e., for themselves,
apart from parent or guardian) -- say fourteen or sixteen years.

I can see both sides of this issue. I think really
bright kids can improvise most of what they need,
and putting them to a little extra trouble might
itself be educational.

Here's some examples of what you can do:
http://www.fortliberty.org/military-library/improvised-munitions-handbook/improvised-munitions-handbook.shtml

And also an idea of the military term 'acceptable casualties'.

Dirk
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ChemistrySet@OperaMail.co
science forum beginner


Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Cobalt Chloride -- A Sci.Chem Thread which Turned to Questioning Traditional Chemical Set Availability to Children Reply with quote

Discusssion about liberty & reason -- and the threatening
suicide-of-the-spirit and will-to-live of children proactive to
chemicals experimentation -- death of the Spirit of Western
Civilisation by overkill via a stultifying, disheartening [mal-]
Nurture over Nature -- shared with Rec.Pyrotechnics because of the
current chemical supplies question where adults are de facto being
treated as very young children, contrary to their de jure status.

Quote:
While it is a sad situation when people die or get very sick, the answer
should not be the elimination of private chemical activity. Cases are
described for Darwin awards by proxy. If parents cannot keep their
children from poisoning themselves, it is not surprising that the parents
anti-survival genes will not be transmitted by their own children to
future generations.

Right now, it is very difficult individuals to get chemicals from
scientific supply houses. I would like to see a solution that does not
hamstring hobby chemists while reducing the danger for children.

If a child reaches under my kitchen sink, he will discover Chlorine
Bleach, Muriatic Acid, Lye, Acetone, Denatured Ethyl Alcohol, and maybe
Ammonia.

If Chemistry Sets are reduced to only "edible" chemicals, what is said
child to do in the real world? If the child puts Dad's Potassium
Chloride Sodium Chloride salt substitute in little sister's Orange
Crush, she may get awfully sick, too. If he or she somehow mixes the
Chlorine Bleach with the Ammonia solution -- get the idea?

I began my chemistry love-affair at age 5, mixing everything I could
find in Mom's basement laundry room -- somehow missing the
Chlorox/Ammonia fun! Then, in 1955 Dad presented his now six year old
lad with ChemKraft's Senior Set -- complete with Alcohol Lamp, Alcohol,
Comalt Chloride, Sodium Ferrocyanide, Sulphur, Wax Candle, Ammonium &
Strontium Chlorides, 5% HCl, Iron Sulphide & Pyrites (FeS2), Powdered
Iron, Zinc Strips, Chrome Alum, Ammonium Hydroxide, Calcium
Hypochlorite, Sodium Salicylate & Thiosulphate, Manganese Sulphate,
Ferric & Ferrous Sulphates, that wonderfully aquamarine Azurite,
Ammonium Sulphate, Sodium Silicate, &c. The Gilbert Set others had
shortly before contained KNO3, fine Mg powder, Strontium Nitrate -- and
experiments for coloured Flashlight Powders, one containing powdered
cinnamin & cloves from the kitchen. Our Kitchen Matches of those days
were real big guys, the type you could ignite on your blue jeans
zipper!

No, I never ate any of the chemicals -- Mom couldn't get me to eat
cooked carrots or beets till later than that! Coloured children,
deprived of minerals in the rural South or Northern cities, had the
occasional appetite to eat chalk from the walls, unhappily including
lead paint traces . . . but eat chemicals? I never new a child who did
that!

Parents either teach their children correctly, with Mom making the home
rather than competing with Dad at the office or factory, or they had
better learn it under the relatively safer standards of the Chemistry
Sets of former decades.

Just so, if they do not learn safety with little things that generally
give little more that irritatation, they are going to experience big
trouble when they get their hands on more powerful dangers in the real
world. Is their any wonder about childhood obesity, with the spurious,
"overprotective" standards of today? No, none at all.

It used to be said in America, 'Give me liberty or give me death!'
Where has the virility -- and the vigour -- of Western Civilisation
gone today? An Englishman's home is no longer his 'castle'; my best
friend, J. DeGraft-Hayford, was murdered a year ago in his South London
flat -- not with a firearm, but beaten over the head with a 2"x4" wood
timber. Of course, if he had shot the two intruders, he would have
been in *big* trouble -- no, it were better according to today's
standards that he were dead rather than act the man and defend himself
with something that could have stopped his outnumbering, viscious
assailants.

All of this puzzle fits together to demand an abrupt end to the
*murderous* socialism which has all but destroyed Western Civilisation,
in the ironic name of "safety" and "humanitarianism" and "enlightment"
-- as the Magicians said plainly to Pharaoh, "Do you not yet know that
Egypt is ruined?"

In America, the central government has disregarded the Principles and
the Constitution's IXth & Xth Amendments (which protect individual and
States's liberties, respectively) and Interstate Commerce clause, and
are today going after sellers of chemicals to amateur chemists and
pyrotechnists as if they were deliberate, vicious criminals -- criminal
to do what my own generation were freely encouraged to do as children,
and praised for doing well, and resulting in the nurture of many Linus
Paulings and innumerable geniuses in the fields of science and
technology! How many Thomas Edisons are being produced today, now that
boys are no longer considered 'young men' but "kids" on-a-leash?

How correct was Soviet Chairman Kruschev in 1959, 'The West will fall
like a ripe fruit' No pun on gay "fruits" intended -- oh no, not a
word against the sexual perverts who haunt our boys, emasculated "for
their own good" (not a word, for that would be HATE SPEECH). Give us a
break -- stand up for individual rights and leave the results to GOD
where they belong, according to a millenium plus of Western
Civilisation suddenly thrown out as hateful garbage, thus producing the
most crime ridden and corrupt society since the dark ages.

Liberty, God, Chemicals -- the modern world has turned agianst all of
these, even as quasi-totalitarian governments freely abuse these things
as never before. What a fine kettle of fish we have become, eh? What
a mickle-a-muckle!

By the way, if Donald Haarman seems ambivalent with his pro-chemistry
set laudes and his simultaneous litany of accidents -- is it not to
teach us to live life more to the fullest, even whilst being wary of
the consequences of abuse? Donald's support of Joshuah Sacks's
pro-chemistry set, pro-childhood liberty -- a supervised but not
suppressed liberty -- might show that he may think as do I -- how-be-it
not to put words in his mouth -- that, after the Tower of Babyl,
mankind now also seems to foster a Basement of Babyl; overweening pride
meets its match in overweening humility. As the commentator notes in
the Jerusalem 'Jerusalem Bible' (Tanakh), man becomes morbid who takes
too much after the 'vegetative' character over the 'animal'. Banning
boy's chemical sets is too much after the 'vegetative' !

To put man and manchildren under a perpetural sword of Damacles -- to
raise and perpetuate them in an hot house -- is every bit as evil and
moribund as the savagery out of which Western Man has has [relatively]
managed to climb so tortuously over the centuries! Let's not blow it
now, alright? It is time to stand up as one and shout with all of our
might -- Give us Liberty again; restore the spirit of the Magna Carta;
leave chemistry sets to parents to decide vis-ŕ-vis the readiness of
their children for Cobalt Chloride et al. If there is legitimate
concern in areas where working parents cannot properly supervise young
children, then let the local jurisdictions put a reasonable age limit
on children's purchasing of chemicals & sets (i.e., for themselves,
apart from parent or guardian) -- say fourteen or sixteen years.

Moreover, considering the doubling of our populations since pre-war
years, the real news is how *few* serious accidents occur because of
chemicals! Let us put things back in proper perspective, shall we?

As far as religion goes -- man without religion evinces the severest
case of lack of perspective about every single facit of life -- life's
living and life's governing. That's a fact, like it or not. Talk to
those of us who remember the liberty and peaceful enjoyment of our far
greater freedoms of a half century ago -- don't take my word for the
authoritarian-forced decline in quality of life over these decades of
increasing socialisation, ask men like Donald Haarmann and the more
senior posters to this Forum. For every man or woman who disagrees
with me that lack of liberty is oppressing more than nurturing science
and renaissance humanism today, there are going to be a dozen who
agree. Elder gentlemen and ladies of science rememember when liberty
was the friend of children, not their vicious opponent, as todays
safety-nazis insist, nay, fanatically demand. Frankly & surely, their
very fanaticism in demanding these pseudo-safety standards (i.e.,
proscriptions) -- in the face of relatively extremely low numbers of
worst case scenarios -- bewray the ill imbalance of their personalities
and motives? Let us put the illness where it belongs, and the
anti-social behaviour, and the visciousness of these hysterical, even
twisted "consumer" and child "safety" mis-advocates, and demand
forcefully and at once, that they stop villifying, culumniating
everyone who disagrees with them and who calls them to account for
their gross statistical misrepresentations. The opinions thus far
expressed in this Sci.Chem thread are indeed not fanatical, but some of
them do play into the hands of fanatics, because of sheer supineness to
the would-be domination of the errant control-fanatics, whose character
is fundamentally atheist, inhuman, materialist.


CS
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Christopher Kerr
science forum beginner


Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: Cobalt Chloride Reply with quote

Salmon Egg wrote:

Quote:
On 6/30/06 5:12 PM, in article
16jpg.78476$mF2.7474@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net, "donald haarmann"
donald-haarmann@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

Cobalt poisoning in a 6-year-old
The Lancet Vol. 335 pg. 981
[Sanned - and you know what that means!]
most snipped

While it is a sad situation when people die or get very sick, the answer
should not be the elimination of private chemical activity. Cases are
described for Darwin awards by proxy. If parents cannot keep their
children from poisoning themselves, it is not surprising that the parents
anti-survival genes will not be transmitted by their own children to
future generations.

Right now, it is very difficult individuals to get chemicals from
scientific supply houses. I would like to see a solution that does not
hamstring hobby chemists while reducing the danger for children.

Bill
-- Ferme le Bush

All these accidents seem to have happened with 'toy' chemistry sets. It is
perfectly possible to have rigorous control of the chemicals in chemistry
sets while still allowing people to buy stuff themselves if necessary - in
the same way as the difference between, say, a toy drill and a real power
tool.
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Repeating Rifle
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 205

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:54 am    Post subject: Re: Cobalt Chloride Reply with quote

On 6/30/06 5:12 PM, in article
16jpg.78476$mF2.7474@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net, "donald haarmann"
<donald-haarmann@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

Quote:
Cobalt poisoning in a 6-year-old
The Lancet Vol. 335 pg. 981
[Sanned - and you know what that means!]
most snipped


While it is a sad situation when people die or get very sick, the answer
should not be the elimination of private chemical activity. Cases are
described for Darwin awards by proxy. If parents cannot keep their children
from poisoning themselves, it is not surprising that the parents
anti-survival genes will not be transmitted by their own children to future
generations.

Right now, it is very difficult individuals to get chemicals from scientific
supply houses. I would like to see a solution that does not hamstring hobby
chemists while reducing the danger for children.

Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
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dave e
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:26 am    Post subject: Re: Cobalt Chloride Reply with quote

donald haarmann wrote:
Quote:
"dave e" <dgenglish@hotmail.com


|
| Assuming you're able to obtain the cobalt chloride, there are also a
| number of interesting experiments to try with this solution related to
| equillibrium. CoCl4 (-2) is blue, and Co (+2) is pink. If you get the
| concentration of cobalt and chloride ions just right, you can produce a
| reversible color change simply by heating or cooling the solution.
|
| Below is a sample reference, but you may want to look for others:
| http://chem.lapeer.org/chem2docs/CobaltChlorideEq.html
|
| Be careful to dispose your waste in an appropriate manner.
|
| Dave
|


------------
Cobalt poisoning in a 6-year-old
The Lancet Vol. 335 pg. 981
[Sanned - and you know what that means!]

SIR-A 6-year-old boy was admitted to hospital at 1530 h on April 12, 1989. About 7
hours earlier his mother had told him to make a drink for his 4-year-old sister. He added
to a blackcurrant cordial ('Ribena') half a teaspoon (about 2-5 g) of cobalt chloride
crystals from a toy crystal-growing set that is widely available in UK supermarket chains
(figure). His mother, suspecting that he had added something, such as soap, told him to
drink it himself. He drank two-thirds of a glass at 0850 without saying what he had done
and went to school. During the morning he complained of abdominal pain and vomited.
The mother suspected that he might have swallowed some crystals, and the boy was
taken to the local emergency department at 1300, where he was given an emetic. He
vomited three times. He was transferred to the children's ward at another hospital at
1530. Physical examination was normal and cardiac monitoring revealed no
abnormalities. His serum contained cobalt at 7230 nmol/1 (4020 nmol/l in whole blood);
the normal range is 2-17 nmol/l for plasma and whole blood. His initial blood count was
Hb 11.9 g/dI, and white cells 4900/0 (granulocytes 35%, lymphocytes 59%, monocytes
6%). Examination of the blood film confirmed neutropenia. Blood urea and electrolytes
were normal. He was discharged after 48 h.

[Table] Cobalt, in blood and in urine, cleared rapidly and no specific treatment for
cobalt poisoning was needed.

Cobalt is an essential trace element and daily intakes am 30-60 Pg (0.5-1.0 unol) in
children. Cobalt salts are relatively non-toxic: and daily doses of 25-40 mg cobalt have
been used in blood disorders such as the anaemia in renal failure and thalassaernia.
However, prolonged treatment may cause depression of erythropoicsis, flushing, chest
pain, dermatitis, tinnitus, nausea and vomiting, nerve deafness, thyroid hyperplasia,
myxoedema, congestive cardiac failure, and renal damage. In this boy, who took about
2 g cobalt chloride, toxicity manifested as gastrointestinal effects and neutropenia.

Jacobziner and Raybin' described a 19-month-old boy who took about 30 m! of cobalt
chloride solution. He became cyanotic and died 4 h after the ingestion. Necropsy
revealed little about the primary cause of death. The liver, kidneys, and spleen
contained 89-4 mg cobalt. Serum cobalt levels were not measured. In 1988 Everson et
al' described a 14-year-old girl who ingested about 96 mg cobalt from a chemistry set. A
blood sample, 12 h after ingestion, contained 1320 nmol/I cobalt and chelation therapy
was started; at 22 h her blood cobalt level was 119 nmol/l.

Beer drinkers' cobalt cardiomyopathy was first noted in Quebec,[3] where 48 cases
with 20 deaths were recognised. Further cases were reported from the United States
and Belgium. Cobaltous sulphate had been added to the beer as a defoaming agent,
and this was thought to have been mainly responsible for the acute myocardial
damage," though nutritional factors may contribute by increasing sensitivity to cobalt
toxicity. [5]

Crystal-growing sets are potentially hazardous. This boy's toy also contained copper
sulphate, and half a teaspoon of that would have been fatal. During preparation of this
report one of us (H. T. D.) was involved in monitoring four schoolboys who ingested
small amounts of copper sulphate from a chemistry set. Clearly urgent action is needed
to control the use of these sets. Everson et al [2] investigated three chemistry sets,
containing a total of 51 chemicals. Of 38 chemicals evaluated 66% were present in
amounts that would be toxic (53%) or lethal (13%) to a 2-year-old child. Only one set
had child-proof containers but for 65% of potentially toxic and all the potentially lethal
chemicals first-aid instructions were provided.

E. S. MUCKLOW
S. J. GRIFFIN
Paediatric Department,
St Mary's Hospital,
Newport Isle of Wight P030 5TG UK

H. TREVOR DFLVES
B. SuatAK
Trace Element Unit
Department of Clinical Biochemistry
Southampton General Hospital


1. Jacobzmer H, Raybin HW. Poison control: accidental cobalt poisoning. Arch
Pediatrics 1961; 7114- 200-05.
2. Everson GW, Norman SA, Casey JP. Chemistry set chemicals: an evalulation of their
potential. Vet Hum Toxicol 1988 30:589-92
3. Morin YL, Foley AR, Martineau G, Rossel J. Quebec beer drinkers' cardiomyopathy:
forty-eight cases Can Med Assoc 1967; 97:881-43.
4. Morin Y, Daniel P. Quebec beer drinkers' cardiomyopathy. etiological considerations.
Can Med Assoc 1967; 97.926-28.
5. Alexander CS. Cobalt-beer cardiomyophy: a clinical and pathological study of twenty
eight cases. Am J Med 1972,53:395-417.





--
donald j haarmann
--------------------------
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.
Alexander Pope [1688-1744]

All fair warnings. But speaking from my own experience, I worked with
cobalt containing oil paints starting at about the age of 10. Were my
parents behaving irresponsibly for allowing me to take art lessons?

I reject the increasingly popular notion that every potentially
hazardous childhood experience can be adequately simulated by a
computer.

On the other hand, if the father feels nervous about cobalt solutions
after reading these reports, I think he might find that growing sucrose
crystals will be just as rewarding (perhaps more so) for the child.

Dave
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donald j haarmann
science forum addict


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:12 am    Post subject: Re: Cobalt Chloride Reply with quote

"dave e" <dgenglish@hotmail.com


|
| Assuming you're able to obtain the cobalt chloride, there are also a
| number of interesting experiments to try with this solution related to
| equillibrium. CoCl4 (-2) is blue, and Co (+2) is pink. If you get the
| concentration of cobalt and chloride ions just right, you can produce a
| reversible color change simply by heating or cooling the solution.
|
| Below is a sample reference, but you may want to look for others:
| http://chem.lapeer.org/chem2docs/CobaltChlorideEq.html
|
| Be careful to dispose your waste in an appropriate manner.
|
| Dave
|


------------
Cobalt poisoning in a 6-year-old
The Lancet Vol. 335 pg. 981
[Sanned - and you know what that means!]

SIR—A 6-year-old boy was admitted to hospital at 1530 h on April 12, 1989. About 7
hours earlier his mother had told him to make a drink for his 4-year-old sister. He added
to a blackcurrant cordial ('Ribena') half a teaspoon (about 2-5 g) of cobalt chloride
crystals from a toy crystal-growing set that is widely available in UK supermarket chains
(figure). His mother, suspecting that he had added something, such as soap, told him to
drink it himself. He drank two-thirds of a glass at 0850 without saying what he had done
and went to school. During the morning he complained of abdominal pain and vomited.
The mother suspected that he might have swallowed some crystals, and the boy was
taken to the local emergency department at 1300, where he was given an emetic. He
vomited three times. He was transferred to the children's ward at another hospital at
1530. Physical examination was normal and cardiac monitoring revealed no
abnormalities. His serum contained cobalt at 7230 nmol/1 (4020 nmol/l in whole blood);
the normal range is 2-17 nmol/l for plasma and whole blood. His initial blood count was
Hb 11.9 g/dI, and white cells 4900/0 (granulocytes 35%, lymphocytes 59%, monocytes
6%). Examination of the blood film confirmed neutropenia. Blood urea and electrolytes
were normal. He was discharged after 48 h.

[Table] Cobalt, in blood and in urine, cleared rapidly and no specific treatment for
cobalt poisoning was needed.

Cobalt is an essential trace element and daily intakes am 30-60 Pg (0.5-1.0 unol) in
children. Cobalt salts are relatively non-toxic: and daily doses of 25-40 mg cobalt have
been used in blood disorders such as the anaemia in renal failure and thalassaernia.
However, prolonged treatment may cause depression of erythropoicsis, flushing, chest
pain, dermatitis, tinnitus, nausea and vomiting, nerve deafness, thyroid hyperplasia,
myxoedema, congestive cardiac failure, and renal damage. In this boy, who took about
2 g cobalt chloride, toxicity manifested as gastrointestinal effects and neutropenia.

Jacobziner and Raybin' described a 19-month-old boy who took about 30 m! of cobalt
chloride solution. He became cyanotic and died 4 h after the ingestion. Necropsy
revealed little about the primary cause of death. The liver, kidneys, and spleen
contained 89-4 mg cobalt. Serum cobalt levels were not measured. In 1988 Everson et
al' described a 14-year-old girl who ingested about 96 mg cobalt from a chemistry set. A
blood sample, 12 h after ingestion, contained 1320 nmol/I cobalt and chelation therapy
was started; at 22 h her blood cobalt level was 119 nmol/l.

Beer drinkers' cobalt cardiomyopathy was first noted in Quebec,[3] where 48 cases
with 20 deaths were recognised. Further cases were reported from the United States
and Belgium. Cobaltous sulphate had been added to the beer as a defoaming agent,
and this was thought to have been mainly responsible for the acute myocardial
damage," though nutritional factors may contribute by increasing sensitivity to cobalt
toxicity. [5]

Crystal-growing sets are potentially hazardous. This boy's toy also contained copper
sulphate, and half a teaspoon of that would have been fatal. During preparation of this
report one of us (H. T. D.) was involved in monitoring four schoolboys who ingested
small amounts of copper sulphate from a chemistry set. Clearly urgent action is needed
to control the use of these sets. Everson et al [2] investigated three chemistry sets,
containing a total of 51 chemicals. Of 38 chemicals evaluated 66% were present in
amounts that would be toxic (53%) or lethal (13%) to a 2-year-old child. Only one set
had child-proof containers but for 65% of potentially toxic and all the potentially lethal
chemicals first-aid instructions were provided.

E. S. MUCKLOW
S. J. GRIFFIN
Paediatric Department,
St Mary's Hospital,
Newport Isle of Wight P030 5TG UK

H. TREVOR DFLVES
B. SuatAK
Trace Element Unit
Department of Clinical Biochemistry
Southampton General Hospital


1. Jacobzmer H, Raybin HW. Poison control: accidental cobalt poisoning. Arch
Pediatrics 1961; 7114- 200-05.
2. Everson GW, Norman SA, Casey JP. Chemistry set chemicals: an evalulation of their
potential. Vet Hum Toxicol 1988 30:589-92
3. Morin YL, Foley AR, Martineau G, Rossel J. Quebec beer drinkers' cardiomyopathy:
forty-eight cases Can Med Assoc 1967; 97:881-43.
4. Morin Y, Daniel P. Quebec beer drinkers' cardiomyopathy. etiological considerations.
Can Med Assoc 1967; 97.926-28.
5. Alexander CS. Cobalt-beer cardiomyophy: a clinical and pathological study of twenty
eight cases. Am J Med 1972,53:395-417.





--
donald j haarmann
--------------------------
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.
Alexander Pope [1688-1744]
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dave e
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Cobalt Chloride Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
Quote:
Hi all,

is there a way that I can convert Cobalt Carbonate or Cobalt Oxide into
Cobalt Chloride? I am wanting to do a chemical garden ( waterglass type )
with my kids, and the price of the chloride from chem suppliers is too
expensive for us, however I can get the carbonate and the oxide from a
ceramics supplier much cheaper. I do have vaious acids and some glasswear,
and was hoping that there may be a relatively simply process to end up with
the chloride??
Any help greatly appreciated.

Regards

Tim

Assuming you're able to obtain the cobalt chloride, there are also a
number of interesting experiments to try with this solution related to
equillibrium. CoCl4 (-2) is blue, and Co (+2) is pink. If you get the
concentration of cobalt and chloride ions just right, you can produce a
reversible color change simply by heating or cooling the solution.

Below is a sample reference, but you may want to look for others:
http://chem.lapeer.org/chem2docs/CobaltChlorideEq.html

Be careful to dispose your waste in an appropriate manner.

Dave
Back to top
Repeating Rifle
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 205

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Cobalt Chloride Reply with quote

On 6/30/06 8:15 AM, in article esfaa25a83820seg6g6pfp52f7t2e3nupj@4ax.com,
"beav" <BEAVITH1@NETSCAPE.NET> wrote:

Quote:
get the carbonate and react it with HCl until you get a neutral
solution. you can get HCl from teh hardware store as muriatic acid.

you'll have to slowly and carefully evaporate off all the water to get
dry crystals

Do you really have to evaporate all the water. What would happen if you
dropped in drops of slurry?

Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
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beav
science forum addict


Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Cobalt Chloride Reply with quote

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 01:55:54 GMT, "Tim" <t.k.j@bigpond.com> wrote:

Quote:
Hi all,

is there a way that I can convert Cobalt Carbonate or Cobalt Oxide into
Cobalt Chloride? I am wanting to do a chemical garden ( waterglass type )
with my kids, and the price of the chloride from chem suppliers is too
expensive for us, however I can get the carbonate and the oxide from a
ceramics supplier much cheaper. I do have vaious acids and some glasswear,
and was hoping that there may be a relatively simply process to end up with
the chloride??
Any help greatly appreciated.

Regards

Tim

get the carbonate and react it with HCl until you get a neutral

solution. you can get HCl from teh hardware store as muriatic acid.

you'll have to slowly and carefully evaporate off all the water to get
dry crystals
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