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Eigenvector
science forum beginner

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 1

<jaywitkow@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
 Quote: I have a portable gas generator that I want to drop into a hole in the ground for use during power outages. I have already bought a 1-ton trolley and a 1-ton hoist and I need to find an I-beam (or a T-Beam?) for a 10-ft span to mount the trolley hoist on. The generator weighs about 200 pounds and the hoist and trolley weigh maybe 50 pounds. It would be nice to have a 2:1 safety margin. Or, in otherwords find an I-beam that could handle a load of 500 pounds. There's a scrap dealer about 50 miles from my house who says he has lots of I-Beams to choose from. The question is, what do I look for? I have no mechanical restrictions for the I-beam other than I would like to have it light enough that 2 guys could lift it. I know nothing at all about this sort of thing, but my intuition tells me that almost any I-Beam that I'm likely to find would handle a load of 250-500 pounds over a span of 10 feet. Is this true? Does anyone have any advice to help me select an I-beam/T-beam? Thanks in advance.

You need the services of an engineer for this one. The short answer to your
question is yes, but do NOT hold me to that. The equations for calculating
what the I-beam can hold are reasonably trivial, related more to its height
than anything but again talk to an engineer! I wouldn't worry about the
I-beam so much as I would worry about what the I-beam was sitting on, but
for the loads you are talking about the issue is almost trivial.
Joseph Meehan
science forum beginner

Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 4

jaywitkow@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 Quote: I have a portable gas generator that I want to drop into a hole in the ground for use during power outages. I have already bought a 1-ton trolley and a 1-ton hoist and I need to find an I-beam (or a T-Beam?) for a 10-ft span to mount the trolley hoist on. The generator weighs about 200 pounds and the hoist and trolley weigh maybe 50 pounds. It would be nice to have a 2:1 safety margin. Or, in otherwords find an I-beam that could handle a load of 500 pounds. There's a scrap dealer about 50 miles from my house who says he has lots of I-Beams to choose from. The question is, what do I look for? I have no mechanical restrictions for the I-beam other than I would like to have it light enough that 2 guys could lift it. I know nothing at all about this sort of thing, but my intuition tells me that almost any I-Beam that I'm likely to find would handle a load of 250-500 pounds over a span of 10 feet. Is this true? Does anyone have any advice to help me select an I-beam/T-beam? Thanks in advance.

Let's see. Power outage, often caused by storms. Storms are often
associated with lots of rain. Rain fills holes in the ground, and you want
to put an emergency generator into the ground to use during storms.
Mmmmm....

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit
longshot
science forum beginner

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 2

 Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: (Simple?) I-Beam Load Question-------Please Help I wouldn't hesitate to span 10 feet with a 500 lb load on any s beam or i beam over 5" tall. be sure to get one that fits your trolley. again, I am not an engineer but I have seen platforms spanning over 10 feet constructed of 4" channel without any problems.
Goedjn
science forum beginner

Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 11

On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 20:27:07 -0700, "Eigenvector"
<m44_master@yahoo.com> wrote:

A 250 pound point load is essentially a person. You could
do the job with a 2x6. You're not going to find an I beam
small enough to notice the generator, so just pick one
that's a convenient size to mount the trolley on.
dpb
science forum beginner

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 1

jaywitkow@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 Quote: I have a portable gas generator that I want to drop into a hole in the ground for use during power outages. I have already bought a 1-ton trolley and a 1-ton hoist and I need to find an I-beam (or a T-Beam?) for a 10-ft span to mount the trolley hoist on. The generator weighs about 200 pounds and the hoist and trolley weigh maybe 50 pounds. It would be nice to have a 2:1 safety margin. Or, in otherwords find an I-beam that could handle a load of 500 pounds.

A 10-ft span could easily be bridged w/ a 2x8 and safely hold 500 lbs
(w/ only something over 1/8" deflection if my mental gymnastics weren't
too far off). For something like that you certainly don't need a metal
beam unless you just want it for showin' off. In practice, for
something like this I would probably go with a double 2x6 rather than a
single 2x8 or 2x10 for a little more lateral rigidity, but certainly
don't need more for supporting the load safely.

I'm sorta' w/ J Meehan on the application, though...unless you're
building an enclosed weathertight basement-like structure w/ air supply
and exhaust provisions seems like the wrong place to put an emergency
generator...

 Quote: There's a scrap dealer about 50 miles from my house who says he has lots of I-Beams to choose from. The question is, what do I look for? I have no mechanical restrictions for the I-beam other than I would like to have it light enough that 2 guys could lift it. I know nothing at all about this sort of thing, but my intuition tells me that almost any I-Beam that I'm likely to find would handle a load of 250-500 pounds over a span of 10 feet. Is this true? Does anyone have any advice to help me select an I-beam/T-beam? Thanks in advance.
bitternut
science forum beginner

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 1

The rain factor would be the least of your problems with that generator in a
pit. That is the last place I would put anything that required gasoline. Any
small leak or spillage could cause a disaster. Gasoline fumes would settle
close to the floor just waiting for a spark to produce an explosion. I would
say put it in a small ventilated hut at ground level.

"Joseph Meehan" <sligojoe_Spamno@hotmail.com> wrote in message
 Quote: jaywitkow@yahoo.co.uk wrote: I have a portable gas generator that I want to drop into a hole in the ground for use during power outages. I have already bought a 1-ton trolley and a 1-ton hoist and I need to find an I-beam (or a T-Beam?) for a 10-ft span to mount the trolley hoist on. The generator weighs about 200 pounds and the hoist and trolley weigh maybe 50 pounds. It would be nice to have a 2:1 safety margin. Or, in otherwords find an I-beam that could handle a load of 500 pounds. There's a scrap dealer about 50 miles from my house who says he has lots of I-Beams to choose from. The question is, what do I look for? I have no mechanical restrictions for the I-beam other than I would like to have it light enough that 2 guys could lift it. I know nothing at all about this sort of thing, but my intuition tells me that almost any I-Beam that I'm likely to find would handle a load of 250-500 pounds over a span of 10 feet. Is this true? Does anyone have any advice to help me select an I-beam/T-beam? Thanks in advance. Let's see. Power outage, often caused by storms. Storms are often associated with lots of rain. Rain fills holes in the ground, and you want to put an emergency generator into the ground to use during storms. Mmmmm.... -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit
Edwin Pawlowski
science forum beginner

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 2

"Joseph Meehan" <sligojoe_Spamno@hotmail.com> wrote in message
 Quote: Let's see. Power outage, often caused by storms. Storms are often associated with lots of rain. Rain fills holes in the ground, and you want to put an emergency generator into the ground to use during storms. Mmmmm....

The generator is probably to power a pump to keep the hole empty when it
rains to his generator does not get flooded. Rube Goldberg lives .
z
science forum beginner

Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 17

dpb wrote:
 Quote: jaywitkow@yahoo.co.uk wrote: I have a portable gas generator that I want to drop into a hole in the ground for use during power outages. I have already bought a 1-ton trolley and a 1-ton hoist and I need to find an I-beam (or a T-Beam?) for a 10-ft span to mount the trolley hoist on. The generator weighs about 200 pounds and the hoist and trolley weigh maybe 50 pounds. It would be nice to have a 2:1 safety margin. Or, in otherwords find an I-beam that could handle a load of 500 pounds. A 10-ft span could easily be bridged w/ a 2x8 and safely hold 500 lbs (w/ only something over 1/8" deflection if my mental gymnastics weren't too far off). For something like that you certainly don't need a metal beam unless you just want it for showin' off. In practice, for something like this I would probably go with a double 2x6 rather than a single 2x8 or 2x10 for a little more lateral rigidity, but certainly don't need more for supporting the load safely. I'm sorta' w/ J Meehan on the application, though...unless you're building an enclosed weathertight basement-like structure w/ air supply and exhaust provisions seems like the wrong place to put an emergency generator...

Yeah, up on a slab would be my choice.

 Quote: There's a scrap dealer about 50 miles from my house who says he has lots of I-Beams to choose from. The question is, what do I look for? I have no mechanical restrictions for the I-beam other than I would like to have it light enough that 2 guys could lift it. I know nothing at all about this sort of thing, but my intuition tells me that almost any I-Beam that I'm likely to find would handle a load of 250-500 pounds over a span of 10 feet. Is this true? Does anyone have any advice to help me select an I-beam/T-beam? Thanks in advance.
Usenet user
science forum Guru Wannabe

Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 166

On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 20:27:07 -0700, "Eigenvector"
<m44_master@yahoo.com> wrote:

Sure, you can hire an engineer at \$5,000 or you can spend 20 minutes
on the internet and do it yourself.

Anyone who suggests you hire an engineer is a complete and total
idiot.
mikejames
science forum beginner

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 2

z wrote:
 Quote: dpb wrote: jaywitkow@yahoo.co.uk wrote: I have a portable gas generator that I want to drop into a hole in the ground for use during power outages. I have already bought a 1-ton trolley and a 1-ton hoist and I need to find an I-beam (or a T-Beam?) for a 10-ft span to mount the trolley hoist on. The generator weighs about 200 pounds and the hoist and trolley weigh maybe 50 pounds. It would be nice to have a 2:1 safety margin. Or, in otherwords find an I-beam that could handle a load of 500 pounds. A 10-ft span could easily be bridged w/ a 2x8 and safely hold 500 lbs (w/ only something over 1/8" deflection if my mental gymnastics weren't too far off). For something like that you certainly don't need a metal beam unless you just want it for showin' off. In practice, for something like this I would probably go with a double 2x6 rather than a single 2x8 or 2x10 for a little more lateral rigidity, but certainly don't need more for supporting the load safely. I'm sorta' w/ J Meehan on the application, though...unless you're building an enclosed weathertight basement-like structure w/ air supply and exhaust provisions seems like the wrong place to put an emergency generator... Yeah, up on a slab would be my choice.

Then add a concrete block wall, and pile earth around it for landscaping.

 Quote: There's a scrap dealer about 50 miles from my house who says he has lots of I-Beams to choose from. The question is, what do I look for? I have no mechanical restrictions for the I-beam other than I would like to have it light enough that 2 guys could lift it. I know nothing at all about this sort of thing, but my intuition tells me that almost any I-Beam that I'm likely to find would handle a load of 250-500 pounds over a span of 10 feet. Is this true? Does anyone have any advice to help me select an I-beam/T-beam? Thanks in advance.
crhras
science forum beginner

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 1

 Quote: I have no mechanical restrictions for the I-beam other than I would like to have it light enough that 2 guys could lift it.

I'll tell you what to do then.... Take two guys with you to the yard and
have them keep trying to lift beams until they find one that they can. I'd
just use laborers but if you are worried about the beam holding 250 lbs then
make one of them an engineer.
YouGoFirst
science forum beginner

Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 47

<jaywitkow@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
 Quote: I have a portable gas generator that I want to drop into a hole in the ground for use during power outages. I have already bought a 1-ton trolley and a 1-ton hoist and I need to find an I-beam (or a T-Beam?) for a 10-ft span to mount the trolley hoist on. The generator weighs about 200 pounds and the hoist and trolley weigh maybe 50 pounds. It would be nice to have a 2:1 safety margin. Or, in otherwords find an I-beam that could handle a load of 500 pounds.

Not to spoil everybody's fun, but I just have to ask why do you want to have
a hoist system? The only reason that I would go with anything like that
would be if I had no friends, and lived 600 miles from anybody. With 3 more
people and some rope you could easily lower the generator into the pit.
Unless you have some reason to have a hoist permanently mounted above the
pit that you haven't explained.

But I do agree with a previous poster, why would you put a generator into a
pit?
science forum beginner

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 2

YouGoFirst wrote:
 Quote: Not to spoil everybody's fun, but I just have to ask why do you want to have a hoist system? The only reason that I would go with anything like that would be if I had no friends, and lived 600 miles from anybody. With 3 more people and some rope you could easily lower the generator into the pit. Unless you have some reason to have a hoist permanently mounted above the pit that you haven't explained. But I do agree with a previous poster, why would you put a generator into a pit?

That's pretty much what I was thinking too. The genset only weighs 200
lbs. With 2 or 3 guys and one of those cable winchs you could lower it
in without steel I beams and a trolley hoist. Also curious as to why
the "hole in the ground" has a 10 foot span. That's one hell of a hole
in the ground. Maybe he's building a bomb shelter.
Goedjn
science forum beginner

Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 11

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:12:49 GMT, "YouGoFirst"
<yougofirst@hotmail.com> wrote:

 Quote: jaywitkow@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:1152156053.927529.55580@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com... I have a portable gas generator that I want to drop into a hole in the ground for use during power outages. I have already bought a 1-ton trolley and a 1-ton hoist and I need to find an I-beam (or a T-Beam?) for a 10-ft span to mount the trolley hoist on. The generator weighs about 200 pounds and the hoist and trolley weigh maybe 50 pounds. It would be nice to have a 2:1 safety margin. Or, in otherwords find an I-beam that could handle a load of 500 pounds. Not to spoil everybody's fun, but I just have to ask why do you want to have a hoist system? The only reason that I would go with anything like that would be if I had no friends, and lived 600 miles from anybody. With 3 more people and some rope you could easily lower the generator into the pit. Unless you have some reason to have a hoist permanently mounted above the pit that you haven't explained.

Or this bizzarre technological contraption called a "pulley".
Michael Daly
science forum beginner

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 1

bitternut wrote:
 Quote: Any small leak or spillage could cause a disaster. Gasoline fumes would settle close to the floor just waiting for a spark to produce an explosion. I would say put it in a small ventilated hut at ground level.

Any boat owner with an inboard knows that you vent the engine compartment well
before starting the engine. Vent means a powered blower, not just opening a
little hatch.

Your advise is very good. That pit is a fire risk without proper precautions taken.

Mike

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