Author 
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Phil Carmody science forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 267

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:04 am Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



"Emil" <EmilBoev@bulgaria.com> writes:
....
Quote:  Vladimir Bondarenko

Being killfiled by huge proportions of the intelligent
readership of a group was probably the best indication
you could have received that you were in fact a usenet
kook. Morphing because of that killfiling is certainly
proof of fact that you are as much a troll as a usenet
kook.
*_plonk_*, again.
Phil

The man who is always worrying about whether or not his soul would be
damned generally has a soul that isn't worth a damn.
 Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr. (18091894), American physician and writer 

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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



DESCRIPTION: Yet another Maple regression bug, one of many 1000s
Heaviside function is the step function
{ 0 x < 0
{ undefined x = 0
{ 1 0 < x
TEST CASE: eval(subs(x=0, y=1, Heaviside(x^2+y^2)) );
eval(subs(x=0, y=1, simplify(Heaviside(x^2+y^2))));
EXPECTED: 1
1
 (2005) Maple 10.00 
1
Error, (in Heaviside) not defined for nonreal values
 (2004) Maple 9.5.1 
1
Error, (in Heaviside) not defined for nonreal values
 (2004) Maple 9.5 
1
Error, (in Heaviside) not defined for nonreal values
 (2003) Maple 9 
1
Error, (in Heaviside) not defined for nonreal values
 (2002) Maple 8 
1
Error, (in Heaviside) not defined for nonreal values
 (2001) Maple 7 
1
Error, (in Heaviside) not defined for nonreal values
 (2000) Maple 6 
1
Error, (in Heaviside) not defined for nonreal values
 (1997) Maple V Rel 5 
1
Error, (in Heaviside) not defined for nonreal values
 (1995) Maple V Rel 4 
1
1
 (1994) Maple V Rel 3 
1
1
 

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Emil science forum beginner
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 2

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



Phil Carmody wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.math.symbolic/msg/35267924148c3021
Yet another beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact...
Had you were right, and we really wanted to sign in under
a new account, consciously, how much trouble would take
to us to generate, say, 1000 new accounts?
PC> intelligent readership
It's great to hear your opinion about your IQ.
PC> *_plonk_*, again.
I'd propose you such a version
*___ppppllllloooooonnnnnkkkk!___*, aggggggain boom boom boom
Phil Carmody wrote:
Quote:  "Emil" <EmilBoev@bulgaria.com> writes:
...
Vladimir Bondarenko
Being killfiled by huge proportions of the intelligent
readership of a group was probably the best indication
you could have received that you were in fact a usenet
kook. Morphing because of that killfiling is certainly
proof of fact that you are as much a troll as a usenet
kook.
*_plonk_*, again.
Phil

The man who is always worrying about whether or not his soul would be
damned generally has a soul that isn't worth a damn.
 Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr. (18091894), American physician and writer 


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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:24 pm Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



Phil Carmody, Nokia http://fatphil.org wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.math.symbolic/msg/35267924148c3021
Yet another beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact...
Had you were right, and we really wanted to sign in under
a new account, consciously, how much trouble would take to
us to generate, say, 1000 new accounts?
PC> intelligent readership
It's great to hear your opinion about your own IQ.
PC> *_plonk_*, again.
Could I propose you a bit more expressive version like
*___ppppllllloooooonnnnnkkkk!___*, aggggggain boom boom boom
?
PC> *_plonk_*, again.
Last but not least, are you, personally, a Maplesoft's customer?
Or your Maple (if you use it) is paid by Nokia, not out of your
own pocket?
Is your experience in programming and prime numbers a substitute
for quality assurance items?
If your goal was to shock my QA soul with your amazing software
testing achievements, please feel free to show them.
Phil Carmody wrote:
Quote:  "Emil" <EmilBoev@bulgaria.com> writes:
...
Vladimir Bondarenko
Being killfiled by huge proportions of the intelligent
readership of a group was probably the best indication
you could have received that you were in fact a usenet
kook. Morphing because of that killfiling is certainly
proof of fact that you are as much a troll as a usenet
kook.
*_plonk_*, again.
Phil

The man who is always worrying about whether or not his soul would be
damned generally has a soul that isn't worth a damn.
 Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr. (18091894), American physician and writer 


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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:09 am Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



Tim Lahey writes on Sat, Jul 8 2006 2:31 am:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.softsys.math.maple/msg/97e0df05808e4c5b
TL> "Why not report the bugs to Maplesoft support?"
Yes, right you are!
Generally, this is a NECESSARY condition to get those DOZENS
THOUSANDS distinct Maple bugs fixed. But overadecadelong live
practice of (at least MANY DOZENS) Waterloo Maple/Maplesoft
customers shows with a shocking, dismaying clearness there are
it is NOT SUFFICIENT.
In a single sentence, "Maplesoft support" being a Maplesoft's
service, is a highly inefficient for Maple customers mechanism
directed often to quality assurance problem concealment, and
persuasion of the customers that Maple is far much better than
it is actually (read: it worthwhile to be acquired).
Not so infrequently, Maplesoft support provides the customers
(me, too, several times already, despite I do not write to the
Maplesoft too often) with formal answers reading which one thinks
involuntarily that the answering person simply either did not
read your letter at all, or was too busy (or unable?) to
understand it...
Maybe reading this message to the end would help you to see
why reporting the Maple bugs publicly is ESSENTIAL.
.................................................................
Thomas D. Dean writes on Mon, Nov 10 2003 6:51 pm
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.softsys.math.maple/msg/3d1cc919649da7b6
Subj: Silly Answer from Maplesoft
I received a silly answer from Maplesoft in response
to a simple problem. Seems like they did not read my
problem report. ...
.................................................................
Carl DeVore, a Maple Guru, writes on Sat, Oct 5 2002 2:57 pm
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.softsys.math.maple/msg/afe3c2f7efd63f62
Subj: explicit solution of polynomial and bug (?)
These are good in the sense that the information is thus put
in the public record. MUG and newsgroups are archived at
several sites around the world and are easily searchable with
standard search engines. ...
Quote:  support@maplesoft.com

Send your bug reports there AND post them here.
.................................................................
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.math.symbolic/msg/6002b726f9f2e669?hl=en
Subj: Maple bugs: Big festal day
....
We celebrate 15 years since a bug in Maple was reported *publicly* !
....
.................................................................
John Harper writes on Thu, Jul 22 2004 1:47 am
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.softsys.math.maple/msg/677e7afc81e36314
Subj: asympt(hypergeom(...)) problem
Five years ago I complained to Waterloo Maple Inc.
that Maple V.5 couldn't do asymptotic expansions of
hypergeometric functions, though V.4 could if they
reduced to more elementary functions. This problem
has still not been fixed! ...
.................................................................
Carl DeVore writes on Tue Oct 1, 2002 4:43 pm
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/maple8/message/111
Subj: Bug tracking system
Some users are getting very frustrated with the lack of public
information about bugs.
I believe that if nothing is done to address this issue, then
Maple will quickly become a system which is only useful for
teaching calculus and other lowlevel courses. It will be useless
for research.
.................................................................
Vladimir Bondarenko writes on Wed, Jun 15 2005 12:28 am
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.math.symbolic/msg/9340ac393e83c4d8
In a nutshell, one of the final goals is making all the Maple's
consumers' life easier via making Maple faster, more stable and
so to say, more intelligent.
So, one of the goals is to HELP Maplesoft to improve Maple if
the company wants this, and to FORCE Maplesoft to improve Maple
if the company does not wants this. The maximal public Maple bugs
exposure is a tool of our users' influence on the wistful case.
.................................................................
Tim Lahey wrote:
Quote:  Peter Luschny wrote:
tim.lahey@gmail.com wrote:
Guess what, I just tried both of your test cases in Maple 10.04
and they both returned 1.
So what? This does not contradict what Vladimir writes.
But he very conveniently left out the latest version and given that
it is a simple download for those who have licensed Maple 10,
I doubt that many people still use 10.0.0 which is the version he
compared to.
And how many users do you think work with 10.04?
And how many with older versions?
I guess that most people are either using Maple 9, 9.5 or 10.
So, this makes me wonder how many more of your "bugs" are really there.
Don't wonder, find it out! The case I could check works exactly
as Vladimir writes:
Most of the "bugs" he continues to post are for cases I don't care
about at all. Hell, even this one I don't care about, I just happened
to test it.
I just wondered because if he neglected 10.04 in this case, how many
other cases does he ignore particular versions.
I wish Google Groups had a killfile.
Why? Why always kill the person who brings the bad news?
BTW, a killfile is a file that usenet reader software uses to
automatically hide posts by particular people so you don't have
to read their comments.
I would like a killfile because of his inflammatory comments he
likes to make. Witness the title of this post which has changed
from the original which was an honest query about a bug someone
found. I don't doubt that Maple has bugs, I've run across a few
myself, that doesn't make them liars. Why not report the bugs to
Maplesoft support like the rest of us rather than coming to the
newsgroup and making inflammatory comments. I read this group
to get advice, help, and new insights. None of his posts provide
that for me and they seem to clog up this and many other groups. 


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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:26 am Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



.................................................................
http://www.maplesoft.com/students/index.aspx
"using Maple in your studies is a terrific way
to get a head start in your career."
http://www.maplesoft.com/company/reporter/archive.aspx?d=120
"the most powerful and trusted computation engine available."
http://www.maplesoft.com/products/maple/pastversions/pastversions_maple95.aspx?D=11
"Maple engine, the most trusted software for exploring mathematics"
.................................................................
DESCRIPTION: The value of the limit depends on the point
where the limit is taken.
TEST CASE: limit(product(sin(k/n), k=1..n), n = 1);
EXPECTED: sin(1) # best
limit(product(sin(k/n),k=1..n),n=1) # tolerable
 (2005) Maple 10.00 
exp(sum(ln(sin(k)),k = 1 .. n))
 (2004) Maple 9.5.1 
exp(sum(ln(sin(k)),k = 1 .. n))
 (2004) Maple 9.5 
exp(sum(ln(sin(k)),k = 1 .. n))
 (2003) Maple 9 
exp(sum(ln(sin(k)),k = 1 .. n))
 (2002) Maple 8 
exp(sum(ln(sin(k)),k = 1 .. n))
 (2001) Maple 7 
limit(product(sin(k/n),k = 1 .. n),n = 1)
 (2000) Maple 6 
limit(product(sin(k/n),k = 1 .. n),n = 1)
 (1997) Maple V Rel 5 
limit(product(sin(k/n),k = 1 .. n),n = 1)
 (1995) Maple V Rel 4 
limit(product(sin(k/n),k = 1 .. n),n = 1)
 (1994) Maple V Rel 3 
sin(1)

COMPARE: limit(product(sqrt(k/n), k=1..n), n = 1);
 (2005) Maple 10.00 
1
 (2004) Maple 9.5.1 
1
 (2004) Maple 9.5 
1
 (2003) Maple 9 
1
 (2002) Maple 8 
1
 (2001) Maple 7 
1
 (2000) Maple 6 
1
 (1997) Maple V Rel 5 
1
 (1995) Maple V Rel 4 
1
 (1994) Maple V Rel 3 
1

.................................................................
The time is not come yet to show the next layer of our results.
Best wishes,
Vladimir Bondarenko
VM and GEMM architect
Cofounder, CEO, Mathematical Director
http://www.cybertester.com/ Cyber Tester, LLC
http://maple.buglist.org/ Maple Bugs Encyclopaedia
http://www.CAStesting.org/ CAS Testing 

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Mate science forum beginner
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 42

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



Vladimir Bondarenko wrote:
Quote:  ................................................................
DESCRIPTION: The value of the limit depends on the point
where the limit is taken.
TEST CASE: limit(product(sin(k/n), k=1..n), n = 1);
EXPECTED: sin(1) # best
limit(product(sin(k/n),k=1..n),n=1) # tolerable

Your expected value is not correct, because the side limits for n > 1
are not equal:
limit to the right = sin(1)
limit to the left = 1.
You shoult "limit" yourself to the real Maple bugs,
or have you discovered all of them?
Mate 

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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



Mate writes on Mon, Jul 10 2006 3:29 pm
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.softsys.math.maple/msg/08cceec73e4aaf4d
Thanks for your comment.
You mean this?
product(sin(k/1), k=1..0);
product(sin(k/1), k=1..1);
1
sin(1)
OK. Also, the answer
limit(product(sin(k/n), k=1..n), n = 1)
would not be too bad, as I already pointed out. But in fact,
in the given case, I do not feel it's really material what
is the expected answer.
The main point is that Maple 8  Maple 9  Maple 10 return
a piece of total bunk, exp(sum(ln(sin(k)),k = 1 .. n)) .
M> You shoult "limit" yourself to the real Maple bugs,
Take it or leave it, but right away I am the # 1 world's
QA engineer in this field.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.math.symbolic/msg/5123d38af7c24ad3
This said, please realize that the showed publicly stuff
is a far cry from my last word in the field.
M> You shoult "limit" yourself to the real Maple bugs,
Jocularly speaking, with the course of time, I decided that
I was too lazy to discover Maple bugs.
This is why I invented the VM machine we keep implementing.
But of course, this explanation shows only one of the
aspects of why I decided to do it; now it's still ahead
of time to discuss this.
M> or have you discovered all of them?
The VM machine has already discovered far many more
distinct Maple bugs than we the human being have done
and posted to public domain, altogether.
However, the shower of distinct Maple bug manifestations
is not getting weaker...
One fine day, not tomorrow, we will come back to this
point.
Mate wrote:
Quote:  Vladimir Bondarenko wrote:
................................................................
DESCRIPTION: The value of the limit depends on the point
where the limit is taken.
TEST CASE: limit(product(sin(k/n), k=1..n), n = 1);
EXPECTED: sin(1) # best
limit(product(sin(k/n),k=1..n),n=1) # tolerable
Your expected value is not correct, because the side limits for n > 1
are not equal:
limit to the right = sin(1)
limit to the left = 1.
You shoult "limit" yourself to the real Maple bugs,
or have you discovered all of them?
Mate 


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Mate science forum beginner
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 42

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



Vladimir Bondarenko wrote:
Quote:  Take it or leave it, but right away I am the # 1 world's
QA engineer in this field.

What about # 0 ? 

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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:21 am Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



Mate, I am really sorry to clog the groups even with such a tiny
remark about you, but over my career, I have met about a dozen
suckers like you who had no qualification in QA whatsoever, and
never measured their IQ.
But where those guys are now...
Mate wrote:
Quote:  Vladimir Bondarenko wrote:
Take it or leave it, but right away I am the # 1 world's
QA engineer in this field.
What about # 0 ? 


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Dave (from the UK) science forum addict
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 76

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:49 am Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



Vladimir Bondarenko wrote:
Quote:  Buy Maple, The World's Most Screwed Computer Algebra System

As someone who lurks around here sometimes could you explain to me what
your interest in Maple is? If you feel its the worlds most screwed
computer algebra system why don't use just ignore it
Or perhaps use my CAS below which is bug free  always computing the
result exactly with no bugs. (Assuming your compiler or operating system
are not broken of course).
Here is the source code  feel free to copy and redistribute if you wish.
#include <stdio.h>
int main(int argc, char **argv)
{
printf("1 + 1 = 2\n");
return(0);
}
I just downloaded a scientific calculator for my Pocket PC and found it
was very poor indeed. But I don't feel the need to make a lifelong
hobby out of pointing out how bad it is to others. I just delete it and
move on.

Dave K MCSE.
MCSE = Minefield Consultant and Solitaire Expert.
Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: monthyear@domain. Hitting reply will work
for a couple of months only. Later set it manually.
http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end) 

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Leo science forum beginner
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 6

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:58 am Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



Vladimir Bondarenko wrote:
Quote:  Mate, I am really sorry to clog the groups even with such a tiny
remark about you, but over my career, I have met about a dozen
suckers like you who had no qualification in QA whatsoever, and
never measured their IQ.
But where those guys are now...

Getting laid? 

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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:48 am Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



.............................................................
http://www.maplesoft.com/
"The Maple 10 interactive environment is the easiest way to
harness the full power of mathematics"
.............................................................
TEST CASE: sum(n!, n= 10^5..infinity);
EXPECTED: infinity # in 0 second
CHECKUP: evalf(Int(n!, n= 10^5..infinity));
Float(infinity)
 (2005) Maple 10.00 
infinity 1351.874 seconds
 (2004) Maple 9.5.1 
infinity 1156.162 seconds
 (2004) Maple 9.5 
infinity 1095.195 seconds
 (2003) Maple 9 
infinity 1018.174 seconds
 (2002) Maple 8 
infinity 1180.948 seconds
 (2001) Maple 7 
infinity 738.441 seconds
 (2000) Maple 6 
GAMMA(100001)*hypergeom([1, 100001],[],1) 737.079 seconds
 (1997) Maple V Rel 5 
Error, (in expand/factorial) object too large 6.900 second
 (1995) Maple V Rel 4 
Error, (in expand/factorial) object too large 10.491 seconds
 (1994) Maple V Rel 3 
sum(n!,n = 100000 .. infinity) 0 second

COMPARE: Timing[Sum[n!, {n, 10^5, Infinity}]]
Sum::div: Sum does not converge
{0.01 Second, Sum[n!, {n,100000,Infinity}]}
.............................................................
http://www.wolfram.com/technology/guide/
Wolfram Technology Guide explains important, often unique
Mathematica technologies and relates them to practical
advantages for users
.............................................................
http://www.wolfram.com/products/mathematica/trial.cgi
Get a fully functional, 15day, savedisabled trial version
of Mathematica 5.2.
Macintosh
Windows
Linux x86/x8664bit
HP Tru64 Unix
HPUX
IBM AIX
LinuxItanium
SGI IRIX
Solaris UltraSparc
Solaris x86
............................................................. 

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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601


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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:58 am Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



.............................................................
http://www.maplesoft.com/
Being a testing amateur, we
"were totally blown away by Maplesoft's Maple 10
mathematical package"
because we have not enough time or care to read
the postings by the Cyber Tester's engineers, and
thus we are not able to realize the simple truth
that there are many dozens of thousands distinct
Maple bugs including but not limited to many 1000s
of (multiple) regression bugs.
Really, why care, we are a writer, not a reader.
.............................................................
TEST CASE: dsolve({diff(y(z),z$2)= y(z)/z,
y(0) = 0, D(y)(0)=1},y(z));
EXPECTED: y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
CHECKUP: ode := diff(y(z),z$2)= y(z)/z:
ics := y(0)=1, D(y)(0)=1:
sol := y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2)):
odetest(sol, [ode, ics]);
[0, 1, 0]
 (2005) Maple 10.00 
NULL
 (2004) Maple 9.5.1 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (2004) Maple 9.5 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (2003) Maple 9 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (2002) Maple 8 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (2001) Maple 7 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (2000) Maple 6 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (1997) Maple V Rel 5 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (1995) Maple V Rel 4 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (1994) Maple V Rel 3 
NULL

COMPARE: Mathematica 5.2
DSolve[{D[y[z],{z,2}]==y[z]/z, y[0]==0, y'[0]==1}, y[z],z]
{{y[z] > Sqrt[z]*BesselI[1, 2*Sqrt[z]]}}
MuPAD 4.0
solve(ode({diff(y(z),z$2)= y(z)/z, y(0)=0, y'(0)=1},y(z)));
{z^(1/2)*besselI(1, 2*z^(1/2))}
.............................................................
Man + Machine Review Of Maple Crisis
http://maple.buglist.org/maplecrisis.php
............................................................. 

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