Author 
Message 
Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:32 am Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



...............................................................
http://www.maplesoft.com/support/
"Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest
level of support for the products it sells"
...............................................................
Dear Maple customer, please eat yet another
Maple regression bug, one of many 1000s.
Bon appetite!
...............................................................
DESCRIPTION: Only Maple V Rel 4 of 1995 and Maple V Rel 5
of 1997 can calculate this limit correctly.
TEST CASE: limit(1/sqrt(1+z^(z^z)), z= 1);
EXPECTED: undefined
CHECKUP: limit(1/sqrt(1+z^(z^z)), z= 1.001);
limit(1/sqrt(1+z^(z^z)), z= 0.999);
9.335771067 + 1.323435694*I
1.312891021  9.280839335*I
 (2005) Maple 10.00 
limit(1/(1+z^(z^z))^(1/2),z = 1)
 (2004) Maple 9.5.1 
limit(1/(1+z^(z^z))^(1/2),z = 1)
 (2004) Maple 9.5 
limit(1/(1+z^(z^z))^(1/2),z = 1)
 (2003) Maple 9 
limit(1/(1+z^(z^z))^(1/2),z = 1)
 (2002) Maple 8 
limit(1/(1+z^(z^z))^(1/2),z = 1)
 (2001) Maple 7 
limit(1/(1+z^(z^z))^(1/2),z = 1)
 (2000) Maple 6 
limit(1/(1+z^(z^z))^(1/2),z = 1)
 (1997) Maple V Rel 5 
undefined
 (1995) Maple V Rel 4 
undefined
 (1994) Maple V Rel 3 
limit(1/(1+z^(z^z))^(1/2),z = 1)

...............................................................
First world's man+machine based Maple Crisis review (beta 0.1)
http://maple.buglist.org/maplecrisis.php
(... beta 0.2 is already of 400+ pages ...)
............................................................... 

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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:20 am Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



.................................................................
http://www.maplesoft.com/support/
"Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level
of support for the products it sells"
.................................................................
Sez you!
A Maplesoft customer, enjoy yet another bug the longliver.
.................................................................
Walter Roberson writes on Tue, Jul 18 2006 8:22 pm
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.softsys.math.maple/msg/aac55b559c9b178e
[ ... ]
WR> Notice that the saved text version of foo has lost the
WR> delayed evaluation quotes, so when it is read back, the
WR> procedure is evaluated once and the single numeric
WR> result is assigned to foo, instead of the entire delay
WR> expression being assigned to foo.
WR> This problem does not happen when one saves in internal
WR> format (e.g., save foo, "/tmp/foo.m" ). Unfortunately,
WR> internal format is not so easy for a human to read...
[Oh yes.  VB]
[ ... ]
.................................................................
DESCRIPTION: None of Maple versions since 1994 on can save
the data correctly.
TEST CASE: _FOO := 0:
foo := 'proc() global _FOO; _FOO:=_FOO+1 end()':
foo; foo;
save foo, `/tmp/foo.maple`;
read `/tmp/foo.maple`;
foo; foo;
EXPECTED: 1 2 3 4
 (2005) Maple 10.00 
1 2 foo := 3 3 3
 (2004) Maple 9.5.1 
1 2 foo := 3 3 3
 (2004) Maple 9.5 
1 2 foo := 3 3 3
 (2003) Maple 9 
1 2 foo := 3 3 3
 (2002) Maple 8 
1 2 foo := 3 3 3
 (2001) Maple 7 
1 2 foo := 3 3 3
 (2000) Maple 6 
1 2 foo := 3 3 3
 (1997) Maple V Rel 5 
1 2 foo := 3 3 3
 (1995) Maple V Rel 4 
1 2 foo := 3 3 3
 (1994) Maple V Rel 3 
1 2 foo := 3 3 3

.................................................................
Maple bugs: An unknown elegant bug discovered
by JeanMichel Collard
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.math.symbolic/msg/b4fb82dd12304dd6
................................................................. 

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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:26 am Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



.................................................................
http://www.maplesoft.com/support/
"Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level
of support for the products it sells"
.................................................................
Walter Roberson writes on Mon, Jul 17 2006 11:40 pm
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.softsys.math.maple/msg/91e587e4f51ba18f
[ ... ]
WR> First, notice that the 'local k' has disappeared, leaving
WR> k as a reference to the global variable k.
WR> Second notice that the expression has been moved out of
WR> add() and assigned to the new local variable t4. Local
WR> variables have firstevaluation semantics, so the variable
WR> is not reevaluated for each of add()'s iteration over k.
[ ... ]
.................................................................
DESCRIPTION: None of Maple versions since 1997 on can
generate the required trivial code correctly.
TEST CASE: foo := proc (p,q) local k; add((p[k]q[k])^2,
k=1..2) end:
fooo := codegen[optimize](foo):
fooo(a,b);
EXPECTED: (a[1]b[1])^2+(a[2]b[2])^2
 (2005) Maple 10.00 
2*(a[k]b[k])^2
 (2004) Maple 9.5.1 
2*(a[k]b[k])^2
 (2004) Maple 9.5 
2*(a[k]b[k])^2
 (2003) Maple 9 
2*(a[k]b[k])^2
 (2002) Maple 8 
2*(a[k]b[k])^2
 (2001) Maple 7 
2*(a[k]b[k])^2
 (2000) Maple 6 
2*(a[k]b[k])^2
 (1997) Maple V Rel 5 
Warning, `k` in call to `add` is not local
2*(a[k]b[k])^2
 (1995) Maple V Rel 4 
N/A
 (1994) Maple V Rel 3 
N/A

.................................................................
Other Maple codegen bugs
http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=Maple+codegen+bug&qt_s=Search
................................................................. 

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Robert B. Israel science forum Guru
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2151

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:47 pm Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



In article <1153149739.123254.150050@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Vladimir Bondarenko <vb@cybertester.com> wrote:
Quote:  DESCRIPTION: The solution to a boundary value problem
for an ODE of the second order depends
on a free parameter _C2.
Only Maple 6 of 2000 can solve this BVP
correctly.
TEST CASE: dsolve({diff(y(z),z$2)= y(z)/z^3,
y(0)= 0, y(1)= 1}, y(z));

The DE has an irregular singular point at z=0, so specifying a boundary
condition at z=0 is a bad idea in general. dsolve is not sophisticated
enough to handle something like this.
Quote:  EXPECTED: y(z) = 1/BesselY(1,2*I)*z^(1/2)*
BesselY(1,2*I/z^(1/2))

This does not go to 0 as z > 0+. The real part
goes to +infinity and the imaginary part to infinity.
Try this:
Quote:  y(z) = limit(rhs(dsolve({de,y(p)=0,y(1)=1})),p=0,right);

y(z) = (BesselI(1,2/z^(1/2))+BesselY(1,2*I/z^(1/2)))/
(BesselI(1,2)+BesselY(1,2*I))*z^(1/2)
Robert Israel israel@math.ubc.ca
Department of Mathematics http://www.math.ubc.ca/~israel
University of British Columbia Vancouver, BC, Canada 

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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



.............................................................
http://www.maplesoft.com/
"were totally blown away by Maplesoft's Maple 10
mathematical package"
.............................................................
Reads:
http://www.maplesoft.com/
[Being a testing amateur, we]
"were totally blown away by Maplesoft's Maple 10
mathematical package"
[because we have not enough time or care to read
the postings by the Cyber Tester's engineers, and
thus we are not able to realize the simple truth
that there are many dozens of thousands distinct
Maple bugs including but not limited to many 1000s
of (multiple) regression bugs.
Really, why care, we are a writer, not a reader.
So, dear Editor, pls send us our fee asap.]
.............................................................
DESCRIPTION: The solution to a boundary value problem
for an ODE of the second order depends
on a free parameter _C2.
Only Maple 6 of 2000 can solve this BVP
correctly.
TEST CASE: dsolve({diff(y(z),z$2)= y(z)/z^3,
y(0)= 0, y(1)= 1}, y(z));
EXPECTED: y(z) = 1/BesselY(1,2*I)*z^(1/2)*
BesselY(1,2*I/z^(1/2))
CHECKUP: ode := diff(y(z),z$2)= y(z)/z^3:
ics := y(0)= 0, y(1)= 1:
sol := y(z) = 1/BesselY(1,2*I)*z^(1/2)*
BesselY(1,2*I/z^(1/2)):
odetest(sol, [ode, ics]);
[0, 0, 0]
 (2005) Maple 10.00 
y(z) = (_C2*BesselY(1,2*I)1)/BesselI(1,2)*z^(1/2)*BesselI
(1,2/z^(1/2))+_C2*z^(1/2)*BesselY(1,2*I/z^(1/2))
 (2004) Maple 9.5.1 
y(z) = (_C2*BesselY(1,2*I)1)/BesselI(1,2)*z^(1/2)*BesselI
(1,2/z^(1/2))+_C2*z^(1/2)*BesselY(1,2*I/z^(1/2))
 (2004) Maple 9.5 
y(z) = (_C2*BesselY(1,2*I)1)/BesselI(1,2)*z^(1/2)*BesselI
(1,2/z^(1/2))+_C2*z^(1/2)*BesselY(1,2*I/z^(1/2))
 (2003) Maple 9 
y(z) = (_C2*BesselY(1,2*I)1)/BesselI(1,2)*z^(1/2)*BesselI
(1,2/z^(1/2))+_C2*z^(1/2)*BesselY(1,2*I/z^(1/2))
 (2002) Maple 8 
y(z) = (_C2*BesselY(1,2*I)1)/BesselI(1,2)*z^(1/2)*BesselI
(1,2/z^(1/2))+_C2*z^(1/2)*BesselY(1,2*I/z^(1/2))
 (2001) Maple 7 
y(z) = (_C2*BesselY(1,2*I)1)/BesselI(1,2)*z^(1/2)*BesselI
(1,2/z^(1/2))+_C2*z^(1/2)*BesselY(1,2*I/z^(1/2))
 (2000) Maple 6 
y(z) = 1/BesselY(1,2*I)*z^(1/2)*BesselY(1,2*I/z^(1/2))
 (1997) Maple V Rel 5 
y(z) = undefined
 (1995) Maple V Rel 4 
NULL
 (1994) Maple V Rel 3 
NULL

............................................................. 

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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:05 pm Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



.............................................................
Vladimir Bondarenko writes on Mon, Jul 17 2006 11:58 am
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.softsys.math.maple/msg/0555e1f2818779e2
Thomas Richard writes on Mon, Jul 17 2006 3:16 pm
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.softsys.math.maple/msg/4b77668b6b992847
.............................................................
A typo is corrected and the data is extended due to
Herr Thomas Richard. We observe here one of several
typical kinds of Maple quality destruction we called
"spike".
.............................................................
TEST CASE: dsolve({diff(y(z),z$2)= y(z)/z,
y(0) = 0, D(y)(0)=1},y(z));
EXPECTED: y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
CHECKUP: ode := diff(y(z),z$2)= y(z)/z:
ics := y(0)=0, D(y)(0)=1:
sol := y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2)):
odetest(sol, [ode, ics]);
[0, 0, 0]
 (2006) Maple 10.04 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (2005) Maple 10.01 
NULL < BUG
 (2004) Maple 9.5.1 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (2004) Maple 9.5 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (2003) Maple 9 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (2002) Maple 8 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (2001) Maple 7 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (2000) Maple 6 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (1997) Maple V Rel 5 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (1995) Maple V Rel 4 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (1994) Maple V Rel 3 
NULL

COMPARE: Mathematica 5.2
DSolve[{D[y[z],{z,2}]==y[z]/z, y[0]==0, y'[0]==1}, y[z],z]
{{y[z] > Sqrt[z]*BesselI[1, 2*Sqrt[z]]}}
MuPAD 4.0
solve(ode({diff(y(z),z$2)= y(z)/z, y(0)=0, y'(0)=1},y(z)));
{z^(1/2)*besselI(1, 2*z^(1/2))}
............................................................. 

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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:58 am Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



.............................................................
http://www.maplesoft.com/
Being a testing amateur, we
"were totally blown away by Maplesoft's Maple 10
mathematical package"
because we have not enough time or care to read
the postings by the Cyber Tester's engineers, and
thus we are not able to realize the simple truth
that there are many dozens of thousands distinct
Maple bugs including but not limited to many 1000s
of (multiple) regression bugs.
Really, why care, we are a writer, not a reader.
.............................................................
TEST CASE: dsolve({diff(y(z),z$2)= y(z)/z,
y(0) = 0, D(y)(0)=1},y(z));
EXPECTED: y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
CHECKUP: ode := diff(y(z),z$2)= y(z)/z:
ics := y(0)=1, D(y)(0)=1:
sol := y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2)):
odetest(sol, [ode, ics]);
[0, 1, 0]
 (2005) Maple 10.00 
NULL
 (2004) Maple 9.5.1 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (2004) Maple 9.5 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (2003) Maple 9 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (2002) Maple 8 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (2001) Maple 7 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (2000) Maple 6 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (1997) Maple V Rel 5 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (1995) Maple V Rel 4 
y(z) = z^(1/2)*BesselI(1,2*z^(1/2))
 (1994) Maple V Rel 3 
NULL

COMPARE: Mathematica 5.2
DSolve[{D[y[z],{z,2}]==y[z]/z, y[0]==0, y'[0]==1}, y[z],z]
{{y[z] > Sqrt[z]*BesselI[1, 2*Sqrt[z]]}}
MuPAD 4.0
solve(ode({diff(y(z),z$2)= y(z)/z, y(0)=0, y'(0)=1},y(z)));
{z^(1/2)*besselI(1, 2*z^(1/2))}
.............................................................
Man + Machine Review Of Maple Crisis
http://maple.buglist.org/maplecrisis.php
............................................................. 

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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601


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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:48 am Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



.............................................................
http://www.maplesoft.com/
"The Maple 10 interactive environment is the easiest way to
harness the full power of mathematics"
.............................................................
TEST CASE: sum(n!, n= 10^5..infinity);
EXPECTED: infinity # in 0 second
CHECKUP: evalf(Int(n!, n= 10^5..infinity));
Float(infinity)
 (2005) Maple 10.00 
infinity 1351.874 seconds
 (2004) Maple 9.5.1 
infinity 1156.162 seconds
 (2004) Maple 9.5 
infinity 1095.195 seconds
 (2003) Maple 9 
infinity 1018.174 seconds
 (2002) Maple 8 
infinity 1180.948 seconds
 (2001) Maple 7 
infinity 738.441 seconds
 (2000) Maple 6 
GAMMA(100001)*hypergeom([1, 100001],[],1) 737.079 seconds
 (1997) Maple V Rel 5 
Error, (in expand/factorial) object too large 6.900 second
 (1995) Maple V Rel 4 
Error, (in expand/factorial) object too large 10.491 seconds
 (1994) Maple V Rel 3 
sum(n!,n = 100000 .. infinity) 0 second

COMPARE: Timing[Sum[n!, {n, 10^5, Infinity}]]
Sum::div: Sum does not converge
{0.01 Second, Sum[n!, {n,100000,Infinity}]}
.............................................................
http://www.wolfram.com/technology/guide/
Wolfram Technology Guide explains important, often unique
Mathematica technologies and relates them to practical
advantages for users
.............................................................
http://www.wolfram.com/products/mathematica/trial.cgi
Get a fully functional, 15day, savedisabled trial version
of Mathematica 5.2.
Macintosh
Windows
Linux x86/x8664bit
HP Tru64 Unix
HPUX
IBM AIX
LinuxItanium
SGI IRIX
Solaris UltraSparc
Solaris x86
............................................................. 

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Leo science forum beginner
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 6

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:58 am Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



Vladimir Bondarenko wrote:
Quote:  Mate, I am really sorry to clog the groups even with such a tiny
remark about you, but over my career, I have met about a dozen
suckers like you who had no qualification in QA whatsoever, and
never measured their IQ.
But where those guys are now...

Getting laid? 

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Dave (from the UK) science forum addict
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 76

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:49 am Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



Vladimir Bondarenko wrote:
Quote:  Buy Maple, The World's Most Screwed Computer Algebra System

As someone who lurks around here sometimes could you explain to me what
your interest in Maple is? If you feel its the worlds most screwed
computer algebra system why don't use just ignore it
Or perhaps use my CAS below which is bug free  always computing the
result exactly with no bugs. (Assuming your compiler or operating system
are not broken of course).
Here is the source code  feel free to copy and redistribute if you wish.
#include <stdio.h>
int main(int argc, char **argv)
{
printf("1 + 1 = 2\n");
return(0);
}
I just downloaded a scientific calculator for my Pocket PC and found it
was very poor indeed. But I don't feel the need to make a lifelong
hobby out of pointing out how bad it is to others. I just delete it and
move on.

Dave K MCSE.
MCSE = Minefield Consultant and Solitaire Expert.
Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: monthyear@domain. Hitting reply will work
for a couple of months only. Later set it manually.
http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end) 

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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:21 am Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



Mate, I am really sorry to clog the groups even with such a tiny
remark about you, but over my career, I have met about a dozen
suckers like you who had no qualification in QA whatsoever, and
never measured their IQ.
But where those guys are now...
Mate wrote:
Quote:  Vladimir Bondarenko wrote:
Take it or leave it, but right away I am the # 1 world's
QA engineer in this field.
What about # 0 ? 


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Mate science forum beginner
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 42

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



Vladimir Bondarenko wrote:
Quote:  Take it or leave it, but right away I am the # 1 world's
QA engineer in this field.

What about # 0 ? 

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Vladimir Bondarenko science forum Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 601

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



Mate writes on Mon, Jul 10 2006 3:29 pm
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.softsys.math.maple/msg/08cceec73e4aaf4d
Thanks for your comment.
You mean this?
product(sin(k/1), k=1..0);
product(sin(k/1), k=1..1);
1
sin(1)
OK. Also, the answer
limit(product(sin(k/n), k=1..n), n = 1)
would not be too bad, as I already pointed out. But in fact,
in the given case, I do not feel it's really material what
is the expected answer.
The main point is that Maple 8  Maple 9  Maple 10 return
a piece of total bunk, exp(sum(ln(sin(k)),k = 1 .. n)) .
M> You shoult "limit" yourself to the real Maple bugs,
Take it or leave it, but right away I am the # 1 world's
QA engineer in this field.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.math.symbolic/msg/5123d38af7c24ad3
This said, please realize that the showed publicly stuff
is a far cry from my last word in the field.
M> You shoult "limit" yourself to the real Maple bugs,
Jocularly speaking, with the course of time, I decided that
I was too lazy to discover Maple bugs.
This is why I invented the VM machine we keep implementing.
But of course, this explanation shows only one of the
aspects of why I decided to do it; now it's still ahead
of time to discuss this.
M> or have you discovered all of them?
The VM machine has already discovered far many more
distinct Maple bugs than we the human being have done
and posted to public domain, altogether.
However, the shower of distinct Maple bug manifestations
is not getting weaker...
One fine day, not tomorrow, we will come back to this
point.
Mate wrote:
Quote:  Vladimir Bondarenko wrote:
................................................................
DESCRIPTION: The value of the limit depends on the point
where the limit is taken.
TEST CASE: limit(product(sin(k/n), k=1..n), n = 1);
EXPECTED: sin(1) # best
limit(product(sin(k/n),k=1..n),n=1) # tolerable
Your expected value is not correct, because the side limits for n > 1
are not equal:
limit to the right = sin(1)
limit to the left = 1.
You shoult "limit" yourself to the real Maple bugs,
or have you discovered all of them?
Mate 


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Mate science forum beginner
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 42

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Maplesoft is committed to providing the highest level of blatant lie about support for the products it sells



Vladimir Bondarenko wrote:
Quote:  ................................................................
DESCRIPTION: The value of the limit depends on the point
where the limit is taken.
TEST CASE: limit(product(sin(k/n), k=1..n), n = 1);
EXPECTED: sin(1) # best
limit(product(sin(k/n),k=1..n),n=1) # tolerable

Your expected value is not correct, because the side limits for n > 1
are not equal:
limit to the right = sin(1)
limit to the left = 1.
You shoult "limit" yourself to the real Maple bugs,
or have you discovered all of them?
Mate 

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