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New Inductance
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tendon
science forum beginner


Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

Roy L. Fuchs wrote:
Quote:
On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 06:38:42 GMT, "The Real Chris" <me@myself.com
Gave us:

Another basic algorithm is the idea that a series of loops is like one loop
multiplied. Well if you do the same thing for six turns then the compass
measurement is the same near the wire than at the centre.

Ever heard of a transformer, idiot?

I have made them that transform 3 turn primaries into 4000 turn
secondaries, and the math all works.

transformin dc!? fool
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tendon
science forum beginner


Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

Tom Roberts wrote:
Quote:
The Real Chris wrote:
If you make a single loop of wire bent into a circle and pass a regulated 1
amp current through it you will make a "magnetic field". According to Gauss
you have to imagine it is there and calculate accordingly. Then comes an
extraordinary performance of human intellect beginning with the magnetic
shells construction that shows that the field is uniform across the plane of
the loop.

I have no idea where you get the idea that the field should be uniform.
Indeed, a quick computation shows that for a loop of 1mm square wire in
a circle of radius 250 mm and a current of 1A, the B field at the center
is 25 Gauss, and at radius 240 mm it is 213 Gauss -- far from uniform.

right, but his idea of photon exchangind make sense

Quote:

[Yes, I have a program that can easily compute this; it took
me about 3 minutes to set it up and run it for this geometry.]


Another basic algorithm is the idea that a series of loops is like one loop
multiplied. Well if you do the same thing for six turns then the compass
measurement is the same near the wire than at the centre.

For my values above, one will not achieve ~10% uniformity until the coil
is more than 250 mm long. That's a lot more than 6 turns. But your
compass has very poor resolution (far worse than 10%).


The magnetic field does not exist it is fictitious.

Your discussion gives no support for this contention at all. Indeed, you
seem to be measuring a magnetic field....


Tom Roberts
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Ken S. Tucker
science forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1230

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:33 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

Chris
I get the sense you think my reply was sarcastic,
well it wasn't, I'll provide an example...
In the past, in North America, A/C was wired at
25 cycles, then a decision was made to transmit
power at 60 cycles. Subsequently, the size of the
transformers reduced (I recall by volume & weight)
in proportion to 25/60 creating great $savings.
That itself renders the idea that power transmutation
is proportional to frequency and is thus quantized,
as Planck's QT predicts. I can follow with many
details, but basically those facts are in accord with
your thesis.
Regards
Ken S. Tucker
[snip weird s**t]
....
Quote:
Chris

Sounds good to me, I think a transformer
is basically a "quantum mechanical" device,
if it's examined in detail. I think your ideas
are very reasonable and advanced.
Regards
Ken S. Tucker
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Sue...
science forum Guru


Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 2684

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

The Real Chris top-posted:
Quote:
Rubbish quantum mechanics it true at all energies. The energy of each of the
quanta are hf where f is the frequency of the exciter and the number of
quanta per cycle is the energy per cycle divided by hf. Nothing special
about low energies.

and wrote earlier:
<< The model of the magnetic effect of current is in reality the
Lorenz contraction of the moving electrons relative to the
fixed charges in the wire and the electrostatic force is
mediated by virtual photons. >>

Is there some way you can relate this Lorenz contraction
to the velocity of a electon in a conductor or electron beam?
I have seen a formula for that somewhere.

The photon energy you cite would depend on atomic
emission and absorbtion would it not? So we could
perhaps turn off the lights and watch the magnetism being formed.

Sue...







Quote:
"Sue..." <suzysewnshow@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1152958274.455652.92190@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...

The Real Chris wrote:

The inductive effect is in reality caused by the acceleration of
electrons.
Now these little charged particles are governed by quantum mechanics and
the
energy states up the ladder are discontinuous and the electrons jump from
one state to the next the two states overlap and during the transition a
fluctuation occurs and a photon emission occurs, just like the hydrogen
spectrum.

Look at Smith-Purcell radiation and see if your charges aren't moving
waaaay too slow for the effect you are assuming.

Sue...
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Roy L. Fuchs
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:13 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

On 15 Jul 2006 13:49:55 -0700, "my mother"
<l3jklr94jt594j@comicmail.co.uk> Gave us:

Quote:

Roy L. Fuchs wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 06:38:42 GMT, "The Real Chris" <me@myself.com
Gave us:

Another basic algorithm is the idea that a series of loops is like one loop
multiplied. Well if you do the same thing for six turns then the compass
measurement is the same near the wire than at the centre.

Ever heard of a transformer, idiot?

I have made them that transform 3 turn primaries into 4000 turn
secondaries, and the math all works.

transformin dc!? fool


Actually, it is quite possible, and is the very basis for how a car
ignition coil works.

A standing DC field is placed on the "transformer" and upon release
of the DC current, the field snaps back down and the collapse yields a
stepped up voltage at the secondary.

Got clue?
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Roy L. Fuchs
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:16 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

On 15 Jul 2006 14:38:06 -0700, "Sue..." <suzysewnshow@yahoo.com.au>
Gave us:

Quote:
The photon energy you cite would depend on atomic
emission and absorbtion would it not? So we could
perhaps turn off the lights and watch the magnetism being formed.

You guys seem attracted to each other. Is it "animal magnetism"?
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The Real Chris
science forum addict


Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:52 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

Hi Sue,

Have a look at my web page on http://www.newelectricity.co.uk and there is
those formulas there.

Chris.

"Sue..." <suzysewnshow@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1152999486.913392.100550@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

The Real Chris top-posted:
Rubbish quantum mechanics it true at all energies. The energy of each of
the
quanta are hf where f is the frequency of the exciter and the number of
quanta per cycle is the energy per cycle divided by hf. Nothing special
about low energies.

and wrote earlier:
The model of the magnetic effect of current is in reality the
Lorenz contraction of the moving electrons relative to the
fixed charges in the wire and the electrostatic force is
mediated by virtual photons.

Is there some way you can relate this Lorenz contraction
to the velocity of a electon in a conductor or electron beam?
I have seen a formula for that somewhere.

The photon energy you cite would depend on atomic
emission and absorbtion would it not? So we could
perhaps turn off the lights and watch the magnetism being formed.

Sue...







"Sue..." <suzysewnshow@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1152958274.455652.92190@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...

The Real Chris wrote:

The inductive effect is in reality caused by the acceleration of
electrons.
Now these little charged particles are governed by quantum mechanics
and
the
energy states up the ladder are discontinuous and the electrons jump
from
one state to the next the two states overlap and during the transition
a
fluctuation occurs and a photon emission occurs, just like the
hydrogen
spectrum.

Look at Smith-Purcell radiation and see if your charges aren't moving
waaaay too slow for the effect you are assuming.

Sue...

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Sue...
science forum Guru


Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 2684

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:30 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

The Real Chris wrote:
Quote:
Hi Sue,

Have a look at my web page on http://www.newelectricity.co.uk and there is
those formulas there.

So what velocity do I put in the formula?

Sue...
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dda1
science forum Guru


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 762

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:29 am    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

Bill Snyder wrote:
Quote:
On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 17:48:10 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
roylfuchs@urfargingicehole.org> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 06:38:42 GMT, "The Real Chris" <me@myself.com
Gave us:

The magnetic field does not exist it is fictitious.

You're a fucking retard, and the only thing that doesn't exist with
you is credibility.

You seem to have misspelled "delusional paranoid schizophrenic" as
"fucking retard." If you'll check out this poor loon's ravings over
on sci.physics.fusion, where he has a track record, you'll find that
he's a genius who in earlier days single-handedly built everything
from cold-fusion power generators to thermonuclear warheads. (But of
course that was before the Powers That Be revoked his security
clearance and had him lobotomized to shut him up.)

A short sample, of recent vintage:

The hydrogen engine was developed in Britain 30 years ago and is used on all
British Warships as is cold fusion lighting. At the moment the domestic
power units are reserved for the privilidged few as are the automobiles.

I get the cold fear that the British leadership is conserving this secret in
order to use them to re-esablish the British Empire and enforce their warped
view of the capitalist system.

The secret is perfectly safe as no one will believe me.

I believe they are also developing teleportation and matter creation units.

It might be quite nice to be British when they eventually get into use as a
dometic market item, like the domestic robot. These days we have criminals
availbable as domestic mindless pets mindlessly obeying orders in an
intelligent manner.

You can even hire them out as pretty sexy dancers and you take the money,
they only get sex and chocklates. One I know earns 10,000 a month for her
owner who keeps her on a lead as she is to stupid to understand where to go
and skips off like a child if not carefully looked after. I don't think she
knows who she was or what money is, but she has plenty of jewelry wrapped
round her beautiful slim body and really that is all their is.

She was a doctor of philophy once.... Now and nude dancing monkey! How much
I asked?

This guy's so far around the bend that he can't even see the curve
from where he is.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank.]

The part with the misspelling is exceptional. I have not laughed so
hard in a long time. Thank you! Five stars!
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Paul Hovnanian P.E.
science forum beginner


Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:56 am    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

The Real Chris wrote:
Quote:

Hi Sue,

Have a look at my web page on http://www.newelectricity.co.uk and there is
those formulas there.

Dude, I think you finally pissed all the electrons off. They're not
delivering this page:

http://www.chrisspages.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/NewElectricity/NewElectricity/index.htm

I just get a 404 error.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
If everything is coming your way then you're in the wrong lane.
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Paul Hovnanian P.E.
science forum beginner


Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:05 am    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

The Real Chris wrote:
Quote:

On this page:


http://www.chrisspages.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/NewElectricity/Transformer/transformer.htm

You say: "Another improvement is a copper screen round the outer winding
and another one round the inner winding to act as a screen against
photons escaping thus reducing losses still further."

Have you actually built this thing? That copper screen will form what we
in the EE biz call "a shorted turn".

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Opinions stated herein are the sole property of the author. Standard
disclaimers apply. Celebrity voice impersonated. Batteries not included.
Limit one to a customer. Best if used by April 1, 2006. Refrigerate
after opening. Void if removed.
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Don Kelly
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:23 am    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1152999190.140186.287000@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Chris
I get the sense you think my reply was sarcastic,
well it wasn't, I'll provide an example...
In the past, in North America, A/C was wired at
25 cycles, then a decision was made to transmit
power at 60 cycles. Subsequently, the size of the
transformers reduced (I recall by volume & weight)
in proportion to 25/60 creating great $savings.
That itself renders the idea that power transmutation
is proportional to frequency and is thus quantized,
as Planck's QT predicts. I can follow with many
details, but basically those facts are in accord with
your thesis.
Regards
Ken S. Tucker
[snip weird s**t]
...
Chris

Sounds good to me, I think a transformer
is basically a "quantum mechanical" device,
if it's examined in detail. I think your ideas
are very reasonable and advanced.
Regards
Ken S. Tucker


What nonsense. Increase frequency, reduce core flux for a given voltage and
number of turns , so make a smaller core at the original flux density.
Nothing to do with Chris's rubbish. Much to do with Faraday.

--

Don Kelly dhky@shawcross.ca
remove the X to answer
----------------------------
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Euler Cheung
science forum beginner


Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:39 am    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

Hello ppl,
I does written something about why a series of loop is not equal to
a loop mutiplied here. Maybe it is helpful.
Core Magnification of Magnetic field as a Parallel Path Phenomena
By Euler Cheung
06/03/2006
One of the mysterious phenomena in the electromagnet is that the iron
core
amplification of the surrounding Magnetic field from the coil. There
has been many
attempts to explain it in terms of electromagnetism theories. This is
the one I believe
to be most complete in explaining this phenomena.
First, for the sake of simplicity, we can consider the iron core in an
electromagnet
coil as made of many concentric metallic cylinders. And when the
electromagnet coil
is flowing with electrical current, each of the section of the coil
would act as the
center of many concentric Magnetic flux lines. Due to the geometry of
the
electromagnet coil and the property of Magnetic flux lines, these
concentric Magnetic
flux lines mutually annihilate each other in the gaps inside the coil.
It thus form many
layers of elliptic Magnetic flux lines (sharing the identical
focus)surrounding the wire.
Since the iron core is close by the wire and made of high Magnetic
permeable
material, these flux lines are thus draw into the core. And each
individual 'layers' of
the core has taken a finite number of Magnetic flux lines. Or, in other
words, the
'layers' of iron core has become a gigantic structure full of Magnetic
pathways. We
could thus envision that each 'layer' of the iron core is filled with
Magnetic flux lines
generated by the wire. From the perspective of each layer, there are
many flux lines
passing through it in parallel(each group of them has the same distance
from the
center.) And due to the timing of the electricity, some flux lines are
formed later than
the other. Those flux lines formed later couple with the existing flux
line to produce a
flux lines of much greater strength than the linear sum of them. Since
there is no
separation of layers in reality, we would expect the totality of
strength of Magnetic
flux is equal to the square of strength of each of them. The result is
a much greater
output of Magnetic flux emitted from the iron core. The center of the
iron core doesn't
contain any Magnetic flux lines since flux lines coming from opposite
direction
cancel out each other.

The Real Chris wrote:
Quote:
If you make a single loop of wire bent into a circle and pass a regulated 1
amp current through it you will make a "magnetic field". According to Gauss
you have to imagine it is there and calculate accordingly. Then comes an
extraordinary performance of human intellect beginning with the magnetic
shells construction that shows that the field is uniform across the plane of
the loop.

According to Carl Popper we should now measure it to see.

Using a compass as a tangent galvanometer with the earth's field as a
reference you can measure the relative strength of the field in the region
of the magnet by measuring its deflection (according to the field theory). I
have done this and the field is about three times higher near the wire than
at the centre. This disproves the magnetic shell construction.

Another basic algorithm is the idea that a series of loops is like one loop
multiplied. Well if you do the same thing for six turns then the compass
measurement is the same near the wire than at the centre.

This shows that the basic algorithm of what is true on one is true of many
as one times the number of repetitions, is false.

I would like to propose a different model: that the magnet is responding to
spin-spin interactions as a quantum mechanical effect. These are entirely
electrostatic in nature.

The magnetic field does not exist it is fictitious.

The model of the magnetic effect of current is in reality the Lorenz
contraction of the moving electrons relative to the fixed charges in the
wire and the electrostatic force is mediated by virtual photons.

Since the electrons always occupy the same space in the wire even though
they are moving it shows that special relativity is an effect like
perspective.

The inductive effect is in reality caused by the acceleration of electrons.
Now these little charged particles are governed by quantum mechanics and the
energy states up the ladder are discontinuous and the electrons jump from
one state to the next the two states overlap and during the transition a
fluctuation occurs and a photon emission occurs, just like the hydrogen
spectrum.

This photon interacts with just one electron in another wire or the same
wire and imparts momentum and energy to change the electron from its
original state to its new state. This also means that the photon carries
momentum both linear and angular and energy.

This is both mutual and self inductance.

Chris
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VWWall
science forum beginner


Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:01 am    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

Sue... wrote:
Quote:
The Real Chris top-posted:
Rubbish quantum mechanics it true at all energies. The energy of each of the
quanta are hf where f is the frequency of the exciter and the number of
quanta per cycle is the energy per cycle divided by hf. Nothing special
about low energies.

and wrote earlier:
The model of the magnetic effect of current is in reality the
Lorenz contraction of the moving electrons relative to the
fixed charges in the wire and the electrostatic force is
mediated by virtual photons.

Is there some way you can relate this Lorenz contraction
to the velocity of a electon in a conductor or electron beam?
I have seen a formula for that somewhere.

The photon energy you cite would depend on atomic
emission and absorbtion would it not? So we could
perhaps turn off the lights and watch the magnetism being formed.

Sue...

Wow! Another undiscovered use for the optical isolator!

--
Virg Wall, PE
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Ken S. Tucker
science forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1230

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

Don Kelly wrote:
Quote:
"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1152999190.140186.287000@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
....
Sounds good to me, I think a transformer
is basically a "quantum mechanical" device,
if it's examined in detail. I think your ideas
are very reasonable and advanced.
Regards
Ken S. Tucker


What nonsense. Increase frequency, reduce core flux for a given voltage and
number of turns , so make a smaller core at the original flux density.
Nothing to do with Chris's rubbish. Much to do with Faraday.
Don Kelly dhky@shawcross.ca

Your moving *power* from the primary to
the secondary coil, power is quantized.
For simple electrical applications you
don't need to know or understand that.

Don, you seem knowledgeable enough
to even model a 40 watt light bulb to see
what I'm getting at. Keep the rate of photons
emitted constant, but double their frequency,
then your output power would be 80 watts.
Regards
Ken S. Tucker
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