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New Inductance
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Phat Bytestard
science forum beginner


Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

On 15 Jul 2006 19:39:42 -0700, "Euler Cheung" <eulercheung@gmail.com>
Gave us:

Quote:
Hello ppl

bwuahahahah... Top posting retard. Your theory is lame as well.

SNIP
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Keith Williams
science forum beginner


Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

In article <mkojb2tdpmbeaeguv8lit6nompkpc0vfv4@4ax.com>,
phatbytestard (aka Dimbulb, aka Roy L. Fuchs)@getinmahharddrive.org
says...
Quote:
On 15 Jul 2006 19:39:42 -0700, "Euler Cheung" <eulercheung@gmail.com
Gave us:

Hello ppl

bwuahahahah... Top posting retard. Your theory is lame as well.

Back to Phat Bytstard, eh DimBulb?


--
Keith
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daestrom
science forum addict


Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:21 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1153026113.273939.244240@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

Don Kelly wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1152999190.140186.287000@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
...
Sounds good to me, I think a transformer
is basically a "quantum mechanical" device,
if it's examined in detail. I think your ideas
are very reasonable and advanced.
Regards
Ken S. Tucker


What nonsense. Increase frequency, reduce core flux for a given voltage
and
number of turns , so make a smaller core at the original flux density.
Nothing to do with Chris's rubbish. Much to do with Faraday.
Don Kelly dhky@shawcross.ca

Your moving *power* from the primary to
the secondary coil, power is quantized.
For simple electrical applications you
don't need to know or understand that.

Don, you seem knowledgeable enough
to even model a 40 watt light bulb to see
what I'm getting at. Keep the rate of photons
emitted constant, but double their frequency,
then your output power would be 80 watts.

The frequency distribution of the photons emitted from a light bulb is
totally *unrelated* to the frequency of the AC current flowing through the
filament.

The only way to double the frequency of the 'average' photon from an
incandescent light bulb is to change the filament's temperature. For a
flourescent bulb, you would need to change out the internal gas.

But neither would require changes in the applied current's frequency.

daestrom
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The Real Chris
science forum addict


Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com> wrote in message
news:44B99CBC.F9944CF5@hovnanian.com...
Quote:
The Real Chris wrote:

Hi Sue,

Have a look at my web page on http://www.newelectricity.co.uk and there
is
those formulas there.

Dude, I think you finally pissed all the electrons off. They're not
delivering this page:

http://www.chrisspages.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/NewElectricity/index.htm


Try that.

Quote:
I just get a 404 error.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
If everything is coming your way then you're in the wrong lane.
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The Real Chris
science forum addict


Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

A shorted turn of very low resistance takes no power and acts as a
reflector.

Standard EM theory.
Chris.
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com> wrote in message
news:44B99EFB.7EA9F87C@hovnanian.com...
Quote:
The Real Chris wrote:

On this page:

http://www.chrisspages.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/NewElectricity/Transformer/transformer.htm

You say: "Another improvement is a copper screen round the outer winding
and another one round the inner winding to act as a screen against
photons escaping thus reducing losses still further."

Have you actually built this thing? That copper screen will form what we
in the EE biz call "a shorted turn".

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Opinions stated herein are the sole property of the author. Standard
disclaimers apply. Celebrity voice impersonated. Batteries not included.
Limit one to a customer. Best if used by April 1, 2006. Refrigerate
after opening. Void if removed.
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The Real Chris
science forum addict


Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

I think I did not work out the diameters right but the practical design used
a 1/4" copper pipe with water flowing through it.

The toroid was a bit bigger that the 0.5 cm inner hole, it must have been 5
cm hole with a 2 cm tube.

The starter was a 12 volt car battery with a diac switch and a tuning
capqacitor of 0.1 uF at 2000 volts.

The initial pulse was 300 amps. Hydrogen at 3mm pressure was put in the
tube.

Push button start worked first time! 3KW.

I put them on the market but a clever idiot doctor wrecked it and chopped me
brain out.

The whole human race then completely lost the fusion engine and poisoned
itself with carbon dioxide instead.

The human race is absolutely mad.

Chop! Your wrong Ha Ha.

Chris.

"Bill Snyder" <bsnyder@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:k2ejb2tuhr2ii585sqa29qel8bivfvaac1@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 19:05:47 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
paul@hovnanian.com> wrote:

The Real Chris wrote:

On this page:

http://www.chrisspages.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/NewElectricity/Transformer/transformer.htm

You say: "Another improvement is a copper screen round the outer winding
and another one round the inner winding to act as a screen against
photons escaping thus reducing losses still further."

Have you actually built this thing? That copper screen will form what we
in the EE biz call "a shorted turn".

That's nothing, really. One of his proposed fusion devices involved a
hydrogen-filled toroid with the "doughnut hole" 0.5 centimeters
across, wound with 10 turns of copper wire sized to carry 400 amps.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank.]
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Ken S. Tucker
science forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1230

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

daestrom wrote:
Quote:
"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1153026113.273939.244240@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Don Kelly wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1152999190.140186.287000@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
...
Sounds good to me, I think a transformer
is basically a "quantum mechanical" device,
if it's examined in detail. I think your ideas
are very reasonable and advanced.
Regards
Ken S. Tucker


What nonsense. Increase frequency, reduce core flux for a given voltage
and
number of turns , so make a smaller core at the original flux density.
Nothing to do with Chris's rubbish. Much to do with Faraday.
Don Kelly dhky@shawcross.ca

Your moving *power* from the primary to
the secondary coil, power is quantized.
For simple electrical applications you
don't need to know or understand that.

Don, you seem knowledgeable enough
to even model a 40 watt light bulb to see
what I'm getting at. Keep the rate of photons
emitted constant, but double their frequency,
then your output power would be 80 watts.

The frequency distribution of the photons emitted from a light bulb is
totally *unrelated* to the frequency of the AC current flowing through the
filament.

The only way to double the frequency of the 'average' photon from an
incandescent light bulb is to change the filament's temperature. For a
flourescent bulb, you would need to change out the internal gas.

But neither would require changes in the applied current's frequency.

daestrom

Fair enough Daestrom, but the question I have is:
Is the power transferred from the primary to
secondary transformer coil quantized?
I'd like to hear expert opinion on that.
Regards
Ken
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The Real Chris
science forum addict


Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

"Don Kelly" <dhky@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:MUhug.194264$IK3.182409@pd7tw1no...
Quote:


-----
You have been through this all before. The problem is that you have shown
nothing new or exciting.

True

Quote:
I have, on hand, an engineering textbook, which evaluates the forces on
moving charges in terms of the electric field.
For charge e1 moving at velocity v1 and charge v2 moving at velocity v2
F=(1/c^2)(q1v1 X(v2 X E21) where E21 is the electric field at q2 due to q1
Define B= (1/c^2)(v2 X E21) and you get
F=q1(v1 X B ) which is the Lorentz force equation (ignoring coulomb
force)

There is no "magnetic" field connected to an isolated moving charge. The
lorenz force requires both a moving charge close to a fixed charge of the
opposite sign.

That whole book you read out from is based on the wrong principle.
Quote:

A brief, less than one page, analysis then the text gets on to useful
electromagnetics in terms of measurable quantities .
This particular reference was originally written 40 years ago and the
material has been know and observed in physics for far longer. You have
added nothing except conjecture.

40 years out of date, based on wrong concepts based on faulty observations
300 yrars ago by perfectionists mathmeticians of the logically flawed
pythagorean school.

We use the concept of a "Gin".
Quote:


Now how is a virtual photon any more real than a magnetic field. Can you
detect such a photon? The only reason to consider a photon is that some
cannot conceive of a force without a mechanical interaction so come up
with something virtual which can go bump in the night.

It is just an alternative that works better based on modern physics around
fynaman.

There is no basis in physics for a magnetic field. None.

My brain removal does not help and the malignant killer who did it deserves
to be beheaded. Now!

Quote:


Don Kelly dhky@shawcross.ca
remove the X to answer
----------------------------





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Don Kelly
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:15 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

----------------------------
"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1153026113.273939.244240@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

Don Kelly wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1152999190.140186.287000@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
...
Sounds good to me, I think a transformer
is basically a "quantum mechanical" device,
if it's examined in detail. I think your ideas
are very reasonable and advanced.
Regards
Ken S. Tucker


What nonsense. Increase frequency, reduce core flux for a given voltage
and
number of turns , so make a smaller core at the original flux density.
Nothing to do with Chris's rubbish. Much to do with Faraday.
Don Kelly dhky@shawcross.ca

Your moving *power* from the primary to
the secondary coil, power is quantized.
For simple electrical applications you
don't need to know or understand that.

Don, you seem knowledgeable enough
to even model a 40 watt light bulb to see
what I'm getting at. Keep the rate of photons
emitted constant, but double their frequency,
then your output power would be 80 watts.
Regards
Ken S. Tucker

1)What photons? Their presence in transformer action, "virtual" or not, is a
conjecture which requires a leap of faith without justification. Does that
mean that increasing the temperature of the transformer increases the power
transfer due to increased photon emission? [no]. Can one make a transformer
such that any possible photon path between windings is blocked but the
transformer still works? [yes]
2)Note that doubling the supply frequency does not increase the power
transfer in a transformer. The effect of frequency on any given transformer
is well known and covered in many texts.
3) As I said before, from Faraday, you can come up with (as does any basic
text on Electromagnetic machines) a relationship between voltage, magnetic
flux, frequency and turns. No photons needed. Note that the relationship
does NOT involve power or need to invoke (incorrectly) quantum mechanics.
4) Considering the characteristics of the magnetic core, then it is also
easy to show that there is an ampere turn balance. Taking this into
account with (3), you end up with a power transfer relationship which , lo
and behold, incidentally agrees with conservation of energy. Do these
non-quantum approaches work? [extremely well].
Are they simpler to use? [very much so].

Quantum mechanics is all very well but there are areas, and this is one,
where this tool is not appropriate.
--

Don Kelly dhky@shawcross.ca
remove the X to answer

>
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Phat Bytestard
science forum beginner


Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:37 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 19:36:02 GMT, "The Real Chris" <me@myself.com>
Gave us:

Quote:
A shorted turn of very low resistance takes no power and acts as a
reflector.

ANY shorted turn on a transformer takes ALL of its power capacity,
and renders it a mere heat generating device.
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Phat Bytestard
science forum beginner


Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:39 pm    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 19:48:02 GMT, "The Real Chris" <me@myself.com>
Gave us:

Quote:
Chop! Your wrong Ha Ha.

Chris.

This guy is a friggin loon.

It is YOU'RE, you adolescent dolt.
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Don Kelly
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:29 am    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

----------------------------
"The Real Chris" <me@myself.com> wrote in message
news:UZwug.108359$7Z6.35912@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
Quote:

"Don Kelly" <dhky@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:MUhug.194264$IK3.182409@pd7tw1no...


-----
You have been through this all before. The problem is that you have shown
nothing new or exciting.

True

I have, on hand, an engineering textbook, which evaluates the forces on
moving charges in terms of the electric field.
For charge e1 moving at velocity v1 and charge v2 moving at velocity v2
F=(1/c^2)(q1v1 X(v2 X E21) where E21 is the electric field at q2 due to
q1
Define B= (1/c^2)(v2 X E21) and you get
F=q1(v1 X B ) which is the Lorentz force equation (ignoring coulomb
force)


Quote:

There is no "magnetic" field connected to an isolated moving charge. The
lorenz force requires both a moving charge close to a fixed charge of the
opposite sign.
--------

1) what part of what I said do you not understand? Note that the first
equation represents mathematically what has been measured.
2)Since when does the Lorentz force reduce to this? You have given no basis
for this, nor can you (particularly the opposite sign part). It is,
however, relatively easy to disprove this experimentally. Are you confusing
the coulomb force component of the Lorentz force with the "magnetic"
component- it appears so.
Quote:

That whole book you read out from is based on the wrong principle.

A brief, less than one page, analysis then the text gets on to useful
electromagnetics in terms of measurable quantities .
This particular reference was originally written 40 years ago and the
material has been know and observed in physics for far longer. You have
added nothing except conjecture.

40 years out of date, based on wrong concepts based on faulty observations
300 yrars ago by perfectionists mathmeticians of the logically flawed
pythagorean school.
-----

Since none of the observations made by anyone 300 years ago have any bearing
on this, what is your point? Where have the concepts failed to explain
observed behaviour? In what way are they wrong, except that you say so.
------
Quote:

We use the concept of a "Gin".


Now how is a virtual photon any more real than a magnetic field. Can you
detect such a photon? The only reason to consider a photon is that some
cannot conceive of a force without a mechanical interaction so come up
with something virtual which can go bump in the night.

It is just an alternative that works better based on modern physics around
fynaman.
------------

Ok then, you want to substitute a ficticious "virtual photon" which cannot
be measured or detected for a ficticious magnetic field which is easily
measured or detected. Then you want people to swallow ideas that do not
work and will not work (i.e. the shield concept and your private version of
the Lorentz force equation) on the basis of your misconceptions. By the way,
the name is Feynman, not fynaman.

No way.
You are a troll, or as you say of yourself,
"My brain removal does not help"


--

Don Kelly dhky@shawcross.ca
remove the X to answer

-------------
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Phat Bytestard
science forum beginner


Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:49 am    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:36:07 -0400, krw <krw@att.bizzzz> Gave us:

Quote:
you're still the same idiot.

No, actually... you are.
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Keith Williams
science forum beginner


Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:37 am    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

In article <c5rlb29atrb8h075r5kb1137i0phqv8ld5@4ax.com>,
phatbytestard@getinmahharddrive.org says...
Quote:
On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:36:07 -0400, krw <krw@att.bizzzz> Gave us:

you're still the same idiot.

No, actually... you are.

I'm not the one nym-shifting, but you're welcome.

--
Keith
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The Real Chris
science forum addict


Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: New Inductance Reply with quote

Hello,

Ok measure the magnectic field due to beam of electrons.

Ok measure force on a electrostatically charged object close to an
electrically neutral wire carrying one amp dc.

And compare with the predictions of your theory.

Oh and send me some magnetic field in an envelope, please use a stamp.

What is the mass of a magnetic field?

Did you know that the mass of a photon is hf/c^2 you can measure it by using
a mirror system with some trapped photons inside and measure the increase as
you add photons, use a gravity pico gram balance.

Magnitic field! Bah science fiction! Farady did not know special relativity
or quantum mechanics - bless his soul!
Oh by the way a shorted turn takes no power unless its resistance is
substantially more than zero. As in a wave guide it is a reflector.

I think we all know that high frequency transformers are more efficient and
smaller the low frequency ones. The greatest loss in a transformer is the
iron core which I maintain is unesseccary as the high permeabilty is only
needed betwen the windings and the photons are carried by spin-spin
interactions.

Photon shield between windings (called an electrostatic screen) is
influenced by skin depth which at 50 hertz is quite long. A shorted screen
between layers of windings would make the transformer non functional.

Quit arguing and go about and build a simple one and do some simple
measurements.

Oh by the way: How many half brains make one?

Chris.
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