FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   PreferencesPreferences   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Forum index » Science and Technology » Physics » Relativity
Space-time and time dilation
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 3 [41 Posts] View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page:  1, 2, 3 Next
Author Message
socratus
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:16 am    Post subject: Two views on the space and time. Reply with quote

1.
There are an independent space and independent time:
We notice it on our planet - Earth.
It is a fhree - dimensional space.
2.
There is simultaneous union of space and time:
It is negative four-dimensional (Minkowski) space.
Herman Minkowski :
“ Henceforth, space by itself, and time by itself,
are doomed to fade away into mere shadows,
and only a kind of union of the two will preserve an independent reality.”
Question.
What is the “a kind of union of the two “?
The answer.
It is Vacuum. T=0K.
Back to top
DJINGATTILA
science forum addict


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: Space-time and time dilation Reply with quote

Henry Haapalainen wrote:
Quote:
"Peri of Pera" <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> kirjoitti
viestissä:1153382150.449129.311840@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

Henry Haapalainen wrote:

I have proved, that space-time and time dilation are incorrect. I am
still
waiting for the first matter-of-fact objection against it.

http://www.wakkanet.fi/~fields/

Henry Haapalainen

Henry, I am trying to understand some basics of your gravity concepts.
You say that space is falling rather than that objects are falling
relative to other objects. Given that space is empty according to most
physicists, how can it fall? Must the term 'falling' be associated
with physical objects or can it be applied to empty space, i.e.
nothing? Consider empty space within empty space. How then does it fall
and relative to what?
Is it permanently in fall or only under certain conditions? If the
fall is linear, what decides the extent of the space volume in fall and
if the fall is circular, what decides the radius? If the space volume
in fall includes the whole of the universe, where is it falling to? If
objects in space are falling with the falling space, at what rate: the
same, less or more? What determines the rate whatever it is? But even
if all these questions can be answered, the issue remains: What causes
gravity? The answer is obvious when Kepler's laws are completely and
correctly understood. However, the difficulty with your theory may be
the semantics to be used.

Peter Riedt

Thank you Peter
Your questions are good. That is my problem, that we need some new word to
describe the space of 'falling space'. To me it is empty, but still having
the needed property.
But at first, what do you mean by saying that Kepler's laws give an answer
to question of gravity. In this I don't understand you at all. I will be
happy to answer all your questions, but please tell me what you ment.

Henry Haapalainen

Henry, Newton was able to popularise some kind of gravity theory using
Kepler's laws and an apple but he missed the mark somewhat. Using
Kepler with a bit more insight will produce a definitive gravity theory
as well as an understanding of what causes gravity. I however feel that
this should come from a mainstream physicist, not from me.

Peter Riedt
Back to top
Henry Haapalainen
science forum Guru


Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 493

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Space-time and time dilation Reply with quote

"Peri of Pera" <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> kirjoitti
viestissä:1153382150.449129.311840@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

Henry Haapalainen wrote:

I have proved, that space-time and time dilation are incorrect. I am
still
waiting for the first matter-of-fact objection against it.

http://www.wakkanet.fi/~fields/

Henry Haapalainen

Henry, I am trying to understand some basics of your gravity concepts.
You say that space is falling rather than that objects are falling
relative to other objects. Given that space is empty according to most
physicists, how can it fall? Must the term 'falling' be associated
with physical objects or can it be applied to empty space, i.e.
nothing? Consider empty space within empty space. How then does it fall
and relative to what?
Is it permanently in fall or only under certain conditions? If the
fall is linear, what decides the extent of the space volume in fall and
if the fall is circular, what decides the radius? If the space volume
in fall includes the whole of the universe, where is it falling to? If
objects in space are falling with the falling space, at what rate: the
same, less or more? What determines the rate whatever it is? But even
if all these questions can be answered, the issue remains: What causes
gravity? The answer is obvious when Kepler's laws are completely and
correctly understood. However, the difficulty with your theory may be
the semantics to be used.

Peter Riedt

Thank you Peter
Your questions are good. That is my problem, that we need some new word to
describe the space of 'falling space'. To me it is empty, but still having
the needed property.
But at first, what do you mean by saying that Kepler's laws give an answer
to question of gravity. In this I don't understand you at all. I will be
happy to answer all your questions, but please tell me what you ment.

Henry Haapalainen
Back to top
Phineas T Puddleduck
science forum Guru


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 759

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Space-time and time dilation Reply with quote

In article <mdcvg.21151$ic7.10294@reader1.news.jippii.net>, Henry
Haapalainen <kirppu@kolumbus.fi> wrote:

Quote:

A theory can be proven wrong, not right. (HH)

And idiocy such as yours can be proven any way it wants, in the
bizarro-world you inhabit.

--
Relf's Law? -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Bullshit repeated to the limit of infinity asymptotically approaches
the odour of roses."
Corollary -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
³It approaches the asymptote faster, the more Œpseduos¹ you throw in
your formulas.²
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
³Gravity is one of the four fundamental interactions. The classical
theory of gravity - Einstein's general relativity - is the subject
of this book.² : Hartle/ Gravity pg 1
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Jaffa cakes. Sweet delicious orange jaffa goodness, and an abject lesson
why parroting information from the web will not teach you cosmology.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Back to top
Sorcerer1
science forum Guru


Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 410

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Space-time and time dilation Reply with quote

"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153417101.062950.145750@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
|
| Henry Haapalainen wrote:
| > > You don't pay up, either. Your reputation may be good in Finland,
| > > but it sucks in the rest of the world.
| > > Androcles
| > >
| > Thank you fellows. But it is the fact that people behind pseudonyms
cannot
| > have anything important to say. Otherwise they would use their own
names.
| >
| > Henry Haapalainen
|
| My name is not hidden, Henry. Lots of people here know it.
| Moreover, you are now adding conditions. You never said that you would
| award $1000 only to people who use their own names and who find the
| mistake in your theory.
| Your reputation could not be muddier.
|
| PD

Happy Henry claims acceleration is only apparent. He's never understood
basic calculus, dx/dt or dx^2/d^2t, neither of which terms are related to
force.
Nor has he ever understood relative motion, despite Copernicus saying
the Earth goes around the sun even though it looks like the sun crosses
the sky and goes around the Earth. You can't tell him anything, he's a
shithead.
He's on Baez's crank definitions anyway.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html

"13: 10 points for offering prize money to anyone who proves and/or finds
any flaws in your theory."

Androcles.
Back to top
PD
science forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 4363

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Space-time and time dilation Reply with quote

Henry Haapalainen wrote:
Quote:
You don't pay up, either. Your reputation may be good in Finland,
but it sucks in the rest of the world.
Androcles

Thank you fellows. But it is the fact that people behind pseudonyms cannot
have anything important to say. Otherwise they would use their own names.

Henry Haapalainen

My name is not hidden, Henry. Lots of people here know it.
Moreover, you are now adding conditions. You never said that you would
award $1000 only to people who use their own names and who find the
mistake in your theory.
Your reputation could not be muddier.

PD
Back to top
Phineas T Puddleduck
science forum Guru


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 759

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Space-time and time dilation Reply with quote

In article <Rncvg.21155$Ik7.2304@reader1.news.jippii.net>, Henry
Haapalainen <kirppu@kolumbus.fi> wrote:

Quote:
A11
In relativity theory, time has been made a varying quantity like weight and
distance. This assumption is still unsupported by any research result.
Relativity theory's most enthusiastic supporters believe that there should
be a mass of evidence - but there is none. There are only misunderstandings
of how an atomic clock operates (the effect of acceleration), and
misunderstandings of what objective research demands. In many cases,
attempts have been made to use the theory to prove itself. (HH)

There's words there, and a sentence stucture. But, in some strange way,
there is an utter lack of sense in the above paragraph. Yet again Henry
shows his utter stupidity...

--
Relf's Law? -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Bullshit repeated to the limit of infinity asymptotically approaches
the odour of roses."
Corollary -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
³It approaches the asymptote faster, the more Œpseduos¹ you throw in
your formulas.²
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
³Gravity is one of the four fundamental interactions. The classical
theory of gravity - Einstein's general relativity - is the subject
of this book.² : Hartle/ Gravity pg 1
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Jaffa cakes. Sweet delicious orange jaffa goodness, and an abject lesson
why parroting information from the web will not teach you cosmology.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Back to top
DJINGATTILA
science forum addict


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: Space-time and time dilation Reply with quote

Henry Haapalainen wrote:

Quote:
I have proved, that space-time and time dilation are incorrect. I am still
waiting for the first matter-of-fact objection against it.

http://www.wakkanet.fi/~fields/

Henry Haapalainen

Henry, I am trying to understand some basics of your gravity concepts.
You say that space is falling rather than that objects are falling
relative to other objects. Given that space is empty according to most
physicists, how can it fall? Must the term 'falling' be associated
with physical objects or can it be applied to empty space, i.e.
nothing? Consider empty space within empty space. How then does it fall
and relative to what?
Is it permanently in fall or only under certain conditions? If the
fall is linear, what decides the extent of the space volume in fall and
if the fall is circular, what decides the radius? If the space volume
in fall includes the whole of the universe, where is it falling to? If
objects in space are falling with the falling space, at what rate: the
same, less or more? What determines the rate whatever it is? But even
if all these questions can be answered, the issue remains: What causes
gravity? The answer is obvious when Kepler's laws are completely and
correctly understood. However, the difficulty with your theory may be
the semantics to be used.

Peter Riedt
Back to top
DJINGATTILA
science forum addict


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: Space-time and time dilation Reply with quote

Henry Haapalainen wrote:

Quote:
I have proved, that space-time and time dilation are incorrect. I am still
waiting for the first matter-of-fact objection against it.

http://www.wakkanet.fi/~fields/

Henry Haapalainen

Henry, I am trying to understand some basics of your gravity concepts.
You say that space is falling rather than that objects are falling
relative to other objects. Given that space is empty according to most
physicists, how can it fall? Must the term 'falling' be associated
with physical objects or can it be applied to empty space, i.e.
nothing? Consider empty space within empty space. How then does it fall
and relative to what?
Is it permanently in fall or only under certain conditions? If the
fall is linear, what decides the extent of the space volume in fall and
if the fall is circular, what decides the radius? If the space volume
in fall includes the whole of the universe, where is it falling to? If
objects in space are falling with the falling space, at what rate: the
same, less or more? What determines the rate whatever it is? But even
if all these questions can be answered, the issue remains: What causes
gravity? The answer is obvious when Kepler's laws are completely and
correctly understood. However, the difficulty with your theory may be
the semantics to be used.

Peter Riedt
Back to top
DJINGATTILA
science forum addict


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: Space-time and time dilation Reply with quote

Henry Haapalainen wrote:

Quote:
I have proved, that space-time and time dilation are incorrect. I am still
waiting for the first matter-of-fact objection against it.

http://www.wakkanet.fi/~fields/

Henry Haapalainen

Henry, I am trying to understand some basics of your gravity concepts.
You say that space is falling rather than that objects are falling
relative to other objects. Given that space is empty according to most
physicists, how can it fall? Must the term 'falling' be associated
with physical objects or can it be applied to empty space, i.e.
nothing? Consider empty space within empty space. How then does it fall
and relative to what?
Is it permanently in fall or only under certain conditions? If the
fall is linear, what decides the extent of the space volume in fall and
if the fall is circular, what decides the radius? If the space volume
in fall includes the whole of the universe, where is it falling to? If
objects in space are falling with the falling space, at what rate: the
same, less or more? What determines the rate whatever it is? But even
if all these questions can be answered, the issue remains: What causes
gravity? The answer is obvious when Kepler's laws are completely and
correctly understood. However, the difficulty with your theory may be
the semantics to be used.

Peter Riedt
Back to top
Henry Haapalainen
science forum Guru


Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 493

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Space-time and time dilation Reply with quote

Quote:
You don't pay up, either. Your reputation may be good in Finland,
but it sucks in the rest of the world.
Androcles

Thank you fellows. But it is the fact that people behind pseudonyms cannot

have anything important to say. Otherwise they would use their own names.

Henry Haapalainen
Back to top
Sorcerer1
science forum Guru


Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 410

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Space-time and time dilation Reply with quote

"Henry Haapalainen" <kirppu@kolumbus.fi> wrote in message
news:SYxvg.21835$8e.20079@reader1.news.jippii.net...
|
| > A reward awaits
| > You will win 1000 US dollars if you can come up with an argument that
| > invalidates this theory of gravity as falling space, either completely
or
| > a
| > major part of it. For example, you may find an inconsistency or a claim
| > that
| > contradicts an experimental result.
| > The reward will be paid to the first person with a valid argument. If
you
| > doubt this, let me tell you something about myself. I am 60 years old, I
| > publish four magazines, and I am quite well known in Finland. My
| > reputation
| > would not allow me to break my promise.
| >
| > Can we here your proof/proofs now?
|
| I don't have to prove it to you. As you advertised I have to do ONE of
| the above, not both. That's what "or" means. I've found the mistake
| (exactly). I do not ALSO have to prove that to you. That would change
| "or" to "and". Do you mean to change your statement?
|
| PD
|
| I have said many times that I don't bother to discuss with you. I try to
| remember it in the future.
|
| Henry Haapalainen

You don't pay up, either. Your reputation may be good in Finland,
but it sucks in the rest of the world.
Androcles
Back to top
PD
science forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 4363

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Space-time and time dilation Reply with quote

Henry Haapalainen wrote:
Quote:
A reward awaits
You will win 1000 US dollars if you can come up with an argument that
invalidates this theory of gravity as falling space, either completely or
a
major part of it. For example, you may find an inconsistency or a claim
that
contradicts an experimental result.
The reward will be paid to the first person with a valid argument. If you
doubt this, let me tell you something about myself. I am 60 years old, I
publish four magazines, and I am quite well known in Finland. My
reputation
would not allow me to break my promise.

Can we here your proof/proofs now?

I don't have to prove it to you. As you advertised I have to do ONE of
the above, not both. That's what "or" means. I've found the mistake
(exactly). I do not ALSO have to prove that to you. That would change
"or" to "and". Do you mean to change your statement?

PD

I have said many times that I don't bother to discuss with you. I try to
remember it in the future.


As I thought. Your reputation in Finland regardless, your reputation
here is that you do not mean what you say, and you do not say what you
mean.

PD
Back to top
dda1
science forum Guru


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 762

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:08 pm    Post subject: Henry Haapalainen - Cheater Reply with quote

Henry Haapalainen wrote:
Quote:
A reward awaits
You will win 1000 US dollars if you can come up with an argument that
invalidates this theory of gravity as falling space, either completely or

Henry Haapalainen

Why don't you pay , cheating m**********r?
Every time one google your name one finds that you:

-are a fucking idiot
-are a cheater who DOESN'T keep his word

s**t on you, Henry Haapalainen!
Back to top
Henry Haapalainen
science forum Guru


Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 493

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Space-time and time dilation Reply with quote

Quote:
A reward awaits
You will win 1000 US dollars if you can come up with an argument that
invalidates this theory of gravity as falling space, either completely or
a
major part of it. For example, you may find an inconsistency or a claim
that
contradicts an experimental result.
The reward will be paid to the first person with a valid argument. If you
doubt this, let me tell you something about myself. I am 60 years old, I
publish four magazines, and I am quite well known in Finland. My
reputation
would not allow me to break my promise.

Can we here your proof/proofs now?

I don't have to prove it to you. As you advertised I have to do ONE of
the above, not both. That's what "or" means. I've found the mistake
(exactly). I do not ALSO have to prove that to you. That would change
"or" to "and". Do you mean to change your statement?

PD

I have said many times that I don't bother to discuss with you. I try to
remember it in the future.

Henry Haapalainen
Back to top
Google

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 3 [41 Posts] Goto page:  1, 2, 3 Next
View previous topic :: View next topic
The time now is Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:53 am | All times are GMT
Forum index » Science and Technology » Physics » Relativity
Jump to:  

Similar Topics
Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
No new posts SRT , GRT and “ Minkowski space “. socratus Relativity 1 Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:49 pm
No new posts Undestanding SR - examination time. Nicolaas Vroom Relativity 14 Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:00 pm
No new posts equilateral triangles in space, and cyclohexane David Madore Math 0 Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:05 pm
No new posts Homology of a certain space question James1118 Math 2 Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:22 pm
No new posts How much electrolyte lost every time SLA/gel battery is c... fancy nospam tunes Battery 0 Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:44 am

Copyright © 2004-2005 DeniX Solutions SRL
Other DeniX Solutions sites: Electronics forum |  Medicine forum |  Unix/Linux blog |  Unix/Linux documentation |  Unix/Linux forums  |  send newsletters
 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.0943s ][ Queries: 16 (0.0525s) ][ GZIP on - Debug on ]