FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   PreferencesPreferences   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Forum index » Science and Technology » Engineering » Chemical
chemistry --> chemical engineering
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 2 of 4 [54 Posts] View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page:  Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Author Message
Straydog1
science forum beginner


Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:58 pm    Post subject: Re: IEEE attacks scientist shortage myth. Reply with quote

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005, rick++ wrote:

Quote:
The IEEE is finally speaking the truth. For decades, they have be parroting
the dire NSF warnings about shortage of scientists.

You are unfair. They've always been concerned about high
unemployment among over-40 engineers.



I'd like to know where you get the idea that they have always been
concerned about high unemployment among over-40 engineers. I've certainly
seen very little talk about this in all of the periodicals I've been
scanning for decades.
Back to top
Straydog1
science forum beginner


Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:56 pm    Post subject: Re: IEEE attacks scientist shortage myth. Reply with quote

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005, salmonegg@sbcglobal.net wrote:

Quote:
On 8/25/05 7:02 PM, in article 878xyptrle.fsf@kafka.homenet,
"rambam@bigpond.net.au" <rambam@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

"In an 18 August 2005 letter to the editor of "The Washington Post,"
IEEE-USA President Gerard A. Alphonse criticized a headline in the same
day's "Post" column, "Behind the Shortfall of U.S. Scientists." According
to Dr. Alphonse, "Just because China, India and other nations are
graduating large and increasing numbers of scientists and engineers does
not mean that there is a shortage of science and engineering professionals
in the United States."

The IEEE-USA leader added: "For a true picture, look at the rising
unemployment for U.S. scientists and engineers in recent years and the
percentage of individuals trained in science and engineering who are
working in other fields." He concluded: "Increasingly, we see compensation
that is lagging behind other employment categories, job insecurity, rapid
obsolescence due to technological change, and the looming threat of
offshoring." "

The IEEE is finally speaking the truth. For decades, they have be parroting
the dire NSF warnings about shortage of scientists.

My criterion for shortage is when you boss asks you if you need any clerical
help so that you can spend more of your time at your real work. I cannot
remember that ever happening.

Bill



My criterion for shortage is when there is a REAL job opening, with a REAL
announcment of an opening in many places of advertising, and they REALLY
want to hire someone, and there are ZERO job applicants. Then, you can say
there is a shortage.
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: IEEE attacks scientist shortage myth. Reply with quote

On 8/26/05 6:25 AM, in article
1125062746.836233.299770@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, "rick++"
<rick303@hotmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
The IEEE is finally speaking the truth. For decades, they have be parroting
the dire NSF warnings about shortage of scientists.

You are unfair. They've always been concerned about high
unemployment among over-40 engineers.

You must be a youngster.


Bill
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: IEEE attacks scientist shortage myth. Reply with quote

Kamal R. Prasad wrote:
Quote:
True. Whether or not there is really a shortage depends on demand &
supply. If industry wants manpower of a certain calibre at a certain
price in order to initiate new projects, you can call that a shortage.
If they shelve the project or send it voerseas -there will not be any
shortage as demand adjusts to supply.
By and large, IEEE USA has a racial attitude towards engineers in
other countries.

What's your evidence of a "racial" attitude? According to its

I tried locating a link on IEEE USA's page-but could not find it.

Then maybe it doesn't exist.

Quote:
The ex-president of IEEE USA (John Steadman) made a statement to the
effect "currently offshoring is limited to maintenance and s/w
development. But we worry that when companies find that Indians can do
research too -they will find it attractive to move research to India
... and that should not be allowed to happen in order for the US to
maintain its leadership in innovation".

He's an ex-president, perhaps for a reason? But I don't see
any racism in that statement. Quite the opposite, since he said
Indians can do research, hardly a position likely to be held by
a true racist.

Quote:

The closeest I found was this article:-
http://www.time.com/time/globalbusiness/article/0,9171,1019866,00.html

The only thing that could be considered racist in that was
'The one advantage the U.S. still maintains is its culture of
innovation. "Most Indians in the IT industry are programmers,"
says B.R. Sheaker, a recruiter for outsourcing companies in
Bangalore. "They are taught to follow the rules. They lack the
analytical ability to think independently, to be bold." ' I
have no idea who B.R. Sheaker is, but maybe you should talk to
him about his racism and I've never seen him post in these NGs.

Quote:

website it has "more than 365,000 members in over 150 countries,
almost 40 percent of whom are from outside the United States."

That is true of IEEE -but not of IEEE USA. That statement was on behalf
of IEEE USA and the article as on http://www.ieeeusa.org/. I may have
mentioned the article in the past on usenet.

I would think if over 140,000 members perceived the situation as
you do, the non-U.S. membership of the IEEE would rapidly drop
to ~0.

Hard to do so. Most scientific work takes place in the western
hemisphere. The bulk of the personnel in any standards group are white
-with a sprinking of non-whites.

Standards have race? I was unaware that the speed of light varies
for anyone, for instance. In fact, Einstien said it doesn't, and
Michelson and Morley back that up experimentally. Of course, they
were white males, so maybe it is a big conspiracy to keep other
races, and probably women too, from traveling faster than 300,000
km/sec. Smile Since "Euro boffins increase speed of light"
( http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2141359/euro-boffins-increase-speed
)
maybe physics is a big Euro-centric male conspiracy after all.

Quote:

They want the profession off limits to engineers in
other countries so that employment among its members can increase to a
reasonable level.

regards
-kamal

So you admit that employment among IEEE members is below a
reasonable level. I wish my professional societies were more
activist in improving employment levels for me.


It is below a reasonable level -and will remain so. I have no interest
in perpetuating unemployment in the US, and do not like the idea of
working on H1b/L1 visa. I mean -you can keep the country to yourself
and I have no interest in spoiling the party. The problem comes when
someone in the US passesa directive that some occupation should be off
limits to people in (India. If you want to maintain a leadership -you
should go about improving skills or telling govt to improve investment
climate in YOUR country.

That would require less tax cuts for rich people, so it won't
happen. Many of us have given up spitting into that wind.

Quote:
That aside -IEEE USA has a dismal future in
legislating the careers of people outside US govt jurisdication.

Then it will be wasting its time. I'd never even heard of the
group before today.

Quote:
Its
just not your country for you to leguislate.

I'm not in Congress, so I don't legislate anything anyway. :-)

Quote:

regards
-kamal


Cheers,
Russell
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: IEEE attacks scientist shortage myth. Reply with quote

Kamal R. Prasad wrote:
Quote:
rambam@bigpond.net.au wrote:
http://interface2037.com/cms/html/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=7

"In an 18 August 2005 letter to the editor of "The Washington Post,"
IEEE-USA President Gerard A. Alphonse criticized a headline in the same
day's "Post" column, "Behind the Shortfall of U.S. Scientists." According
to Dr. Alphonse, "Just because China, India and other nations are
graduating large and increasing numbers of scientists and engineers does
not mean that there is a shortage of science and engineering professionals
in the United States."

True.

The IEEE-USA leader added: "For a true picture, look at the rising
unemployment for U.S. scientists and engineers in recent years and the
percentage of individuals trained in science and engineering who are
working in other fields." He concluded: "Increasingly, we see compensation
that is lagging behind other employment categories, job insecurity, rapid
obsolescence due to technological change, and the looming threat of
offshoring." "

True. Whether or not there is really a shortage depends on demand &
supply. If industry wants manpower of a certain calibre at a certain
price in order to initiate new projects, you can call that a shortage.
If they shelve the project or send it voerseas -there will not be any
shortage as demand adjusts to supply.
By and large, IEEE USA has a racial attitude towards engineers in
other countries.

What's your evidence of a "racial" attitude? According to its
website it has "more than 365,000 members in over 150 countries,
almost 40 percent of whom are from outside the United States."
I would think if over 140,000 members perceived the situation as
you do, the non-U.S. membership of the IEEE would rapidly drop
to ~0.

Quote:
They want the profession off limits to engineers in
other countries so that employment among its members can increase to a
reasonable level.

regards
-kamal

So you admit that employment among IEEE members is below a
reasonable level. I wish my professional societies were more
activist in improving employment levels for me.

Cheers,
Russell
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: IEEE attacks scientist shortage myth. Reply with quote

salmonegg@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Quote:
On 8/25/05 7:02 PM, in article 878xyptrle.fsf@kafka.homenet,
"rambam@bigpond.net.au" <rambam@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

"In an 18 August 2005 letter to the editor of "The Washington Post,"
IEEE-USA President Gerard A. Alphonse criticized a headline in the same
day's "Post" column, "Behind the Shortfall of U.S. Scientists." According
to Dr. Alphonse, "Just because China, India and other nations are
graduating large and increasing numbers of scientists and engineers does
not mean that there is a shortage of science and engineering professionals
in the United States."

The IEEE-USA leader added: "For a true picture, look at the rising
unemployment for U.S. scientists and engineers in recent years and the
percentage of individuals trained in science and engineering who are
working in other fields." He concluded: "Increasingly, we see compensation
that is lagging behind other employment categories, job insecurity, rapid
obsolescence due to technological change, and the looming threat of
offshoring." "

The IEEE is finally speaking the truth. For decades, they have be parroting
the dire NSF warnings about shortage of scientists.

My criterion for shortage is when you boss asks you if you need any clerical
help so that you can spend more of your time at your real work. I cannot
remember that ever happening.

Bill

My criterion is someone from a highly reputable organization (not
a head hunter) calls you and offers you a job in their organization
at twice the money you're making now. ;-)

Cheers,
Russell
Back to top
rick++
science forum beginner


Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: IEEE attacks scientist shortage myth. Reply with quote

Quote:
The IEEE is finally speaking the truth. For decades, they have be parroting
the dire NSF warnings about shortage of scientists.

You are unfair. They've always been concerned about high
unemployment among over-40 engineers.
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:16 am    Post subject: Re: Call Bush to Action on Science, Math, and Engineering Education Reply with quote

I think we need to aim for 15% of all 15yr-olds having PhDs in
15yrs. (cf http://www.geocities.com/vasjp2/educ.txt) Have you ever
seen the 1897 JC NJ HS entrance exam Chris Whittle flails around? Most
BS grads can't pass it today. Today's academia exists for the benefit
of those teaching not of those learning. Inflation. I got my BSChE at 19.



- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist
BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Fooey on GIU,{MS,X}Windows 4 Bimbos] [Cigar smoke belongs in veg food group]
Back to top
apm
science forum beginner


Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Call Bush to Action on Science, Math, and Engineering Education Reply with quote

"charliew2" <charliew2@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:11fcukq60hcqsaf@corp.supernews.com...
Quote:

ckurasek@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123267670.933345.238560@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Below is the text of a petition urging President Bush and our national
leaders to call upon the nation to embark upon a modern-day 'Manhattan
Project' in scientific education and research to protect and extend
America's position of global leadership in technology and science; a
position that becomes more fragile and tenuous every passing day that
we continue to let our public schools lag behind the rest of the


Quote:

I see this problem as somewhat more subtle than most. Several things must
happen to help the situation described above:

* It's fine to graduate a lot of engineers, but there should be jobs
waiting for those graduates. U.S. manufacturing is exporting a lot of
high tech jobs overseas, so there is a bit of a disconnect here regarding
technical training vs. job availability. I expect this trend to continue,
because U.S. engineers are very highly paid relative to their overseas
counterparts,

The high pay is partially due to the instability of the job market. There
are cyclic shortages followed by oversuplies of engineers.

Lack of support for basic research is a big problem. This support would
provide some stable jobs for scientists and engineers. It would also make
industrial R&D less expensive both because some needed research would
already be done and because engineers could work for less knowing they can
count on a job for more than 2 years. This would encourage more R&D. The
R&D is needed because without innovation - developing new products and
improving old ones - products are just less expensive to produce in places
with less well-developed economies.



I think the U.S. already has the best scientists and engineers in the world.
Many of these are educated in other parts of the world and immigrate to the
U.S. The problem is that the scientific and engineering talent is not well
utilized once in the U.S.

The ecomomy most reciently benifited from development of the internet.
Other inovastions are needed. Cheeper energy would be a good thing.
Unfortunatelly there aren't very many chemical engineers left working in the
U.S.

and U.S. corporations are salivating at the prospect of
Quote:
getting top technical talent and paying third-world salaries for that
talent.
* I just switched careers from chemical engineering to high school
education, so I will be meeting this problem up close and personal. In my
opinion, the U.S. education system has far bigger problems than
curriculum. There are a LOT of lower socio-economic students out there,
who either have two working parents, or only one. These students often
don't get the benefit of big parental involvement in their schooling
because the parents are too busy trying to make enough money to keep the
family going. Under these conditions, it is practically impossible to
increase the academic achievement of the students because the students are
practically raising themselves, and they are too young to see the benefit
of hard academic work. I will do my best to inspire the students that I
teach, but there are 120 of them and only 1 of me, so I will not be able
to be a surrogate parent for more than a very few of them. Indeed, all of
the teachers that I work with will be in that same situation.

With the two reasons that I gave above, I'm somewhat pessimistic regarding
the long term scientific and technology outlook for the U.S. At this
point, petitions and verbiage are not going to fix the problem. For the
"Manhattan project" that you are talking about above, students' parents
also need to be educated in several areas:

* the need for the student to get a good education
* the need for the parents to get a better education in order to more
easily provide for their families
* the need for the current generation of parents to voluntarily accept a
lower standard of living (where applicable) in order to spend more time
with their children

Obviously, with the very high divorce rate in the U.S., and the strong
desire of the current generation of parents to go into deep debt in order
to keep up with the "Jonses", the U.S. educational problem is going to be
very difficult to solve.
Back to top
charliew2
science forum beginner


Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Call Bush to Action on Science, Math, and Engineering Education Reply with quote

<ckurasek@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123267670.933345.238560@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Below is the text of a petition urging President Bush and our national
leaders to call upon the nation to embark upon a modern-day 'Manhattan
Project' in scientific education and research to protect and extend
America's position of global leadership in technology and science; a
position that becomes more fragile and tenuous every passing day that
we continue to let our public schools lag behind the rest of the
industrial world, and increasingly Asian nations, in the sciences.

Would you be willing to sign this petition and pass it along to your
fellow scientists, mathematicians, and engineers? You can sign an
electronic copy of the petition and see who else has signed it at:

http://www.CallBushToAction.com

The petition will be delivered to President Bush and your respective
Congressmen on September 1, 2005.

(cut)


I see this problem as somewhat more subtle than most. Several things must
happen to help the situation described above:

* It's fine to graduate a lot of engineers, but there should be jobs
waiting for those graduates. U.S. manufacturing is exporting a lot of high
tech jobs overseas, so there is a bit of a disconnect here regarding
technical training vs. job availability. I expect this trend to continue,
because U.S. engineers are very highly paid relative to their overseas
counterparts, and U.S. corporations are salivating at the prospect of
getting top technical talent and paying third-world salaries for that
talent.
* I just switched careers from chemical engineering to high school
education, so I will be meeting this problem up close and personal. In my
opinion, the U.S. education system has far bigger problems than curriculum.
There are a LOT of lower socio-economic students out there, who either have
two working parents, or only one. These students often don't get the
benefit of big parental involvement in their schooling because the parents
are too busy trying to make enough money to keep the family going. Under
these conditions, it is practically impossible to increase the academic
achievement of the students because the students are practically raising
themselves, and they are too young to see the benefit of hard academic work.
I will do my best to inspire the students that I teach, but there are 120 of
them and only 1 of me, so I will not be able to be a surrogate parent for
more than a very few of them. Indeed, all of the teachers that I work with
will be in that same situation.

With the two reasons that I gave above, I'm somewhat pessimistic regarding
the long term scientific and technology outlook for the U.S. At this point,
petitions and verbiage are not going to fix the problem. For the "Manhattan
project" that you are talking about above, students' parents also need to be
educated in several areas:

* the need for the student to get a good education
* the need for the parents to get a better education in order to more
easily provide for their families
* the need for the current generation of parents to voluntarily accept a
lower standard of living (where applicable) in order to spend more time with
their children

Obviously, with the very high divorce rate in the U.S., and the strong
desire of the current generation of parents to go into deep debt in order to
keep up with the "Jonses", the U.S. educational problem is going to be very
difficult to solve.
Back to top
J DUDLEY
science forum beginner


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: density Reply with quote

there is also a correlation in Coulson & Richardson 6

<rekuci@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122549751.089546.7140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
How to calculate density of liquid mixture (
CH4,C2H6,C2H4,C2H2,C3H8,C3H6)
if I have folowing data available : mol fraction of each component, x,
and
actual measured flow in m^3/h

What I know is that ro = m / V = ( n*M ) / V

To do it precisely, you need some kind of mass data. Volumetric flow
rate is useless information without a mass flow rate (think about it?).
There is no simple relationship between densities of different liquids
before and after mixing, because it will depend on the intermolecular
interactions of the liquids with each other. However, it can be
approximated by taking sum(x_i*rho_i)

This will probably be a good approximation for your mixture because
they are similar and should associate with each other much the same as
how they associate with themselves.
Back to top
tom1158
science forum beginner


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: Wax jar in ancient Greece Reply with quote

thx...one more Q....how do I find densities for different p and T..in tables
there is only for atmosferic p and at boilng T ?

<vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com> wrote in message
news:dc9qee$dcv$1@reader2.panix.com...
Quote:
I have my doubts because you can't exactly filter salt - the salt
ions are essentially almost as small as the water.. are you sure it
wasn't wax-covered clay? What kind of wax? I suppose that maybe the
beeswax had some properties akin to semipermeable membranes, or
perhaps there were parts of actual membranes in the behives (I'm
speculating.. don't know what is the composition of beehives - what
holds them together - it is possible they contain some plant-derived
cellulose from the way honey with wax in it tastes - there is always
some cellulose-like material you try to spit out).. it seems laden
with speculation and hyperbole.. unfortunately Greeks have been
excellent mythologists, and way too skilled at mythology throughout
history.. enough so that even when they speak truthfully, no one
believes them any more.. still, Aristotle was unusually sharp (though
not immune) at not falling prey to such hyperbole.. assuming you quote
him accurately..

In <1122420143.677278.186040@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> by
mollwollfumble
David.Paterson@csiro.au> on 26 Jul 2005 16:22:23 -0700 we perused:
*+-Aristotle in 'meteorology' briefly describes a seawater desalination
*+-device. If a jar made of wax is placed in the sea, the water that
*+-passes through the wax into the jar is fresh.



- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist
BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Fooey on GIU,{MS,X}Windows 4 Bimbos] [Cigar smoke belongs in veg food
group]
Back to top
Ron Jones
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Search multiple job sites for you! Reply with quote

FindJobEasy.com wrote:
Quote:
This is a good question. Try our web site and you definitely can tell
the differences. At least try it!

Seems a tad US biased... ;-)

--
--
Ron Jones

Don't repeat history, see unreported near misses in chemical lab/plant
at http://www.crhf.org.uk
Only two things are certain: The universe and human stupidity; and I?m
not certain about the universe. ~ Albert Einstein
Back to top
FindJobEasy.com
science forum beginner


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:40 am    Post subject: Re: Search multiple job sites for you! Reply with quote

This is a good question. Try our web site and you definitely can tell
the differences. At least try it!
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:56 am    Post subject: Re: Search multiple job sites for you! Reply with quote

I'm underwhelmed. There are already other faster "vertical search
engines" for jobs. Three examples are:
http://www.simplyhired.com
http://www.indeed.com
and http://www.work.com

Why should anyone use yours?

Pittsburgh Pete
Back to top
Google

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 2 of 4 [54 Posts] Goto page:  Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 Next
View previous topic :: View next topic
The time now is Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:57 pm | All times are GMT
Forum index » Science and Technology » Engineering » Chemical
Jump to:  

Similar Topics
Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
No new posts Compare and contrast physics and chemistry parent Chem 0 Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:26 pm
No new posts Civil Engineering Job Board CivilEngineer.JobsOnline. Engineering 0 Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:15 pm
No new posts Multi-conference in computer science and engineering john11118 Math 0 Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:02 pm
No new posts Festive Fireworks, which chemical to which color? xoflram@gmail.com Chem 5 Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:55 pm
No new posts Theoretical Estimation of Chemical Reaction Rate Constants Squark Research 12 Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:57 am

Copyright © 2004-2005 DeniX Solutions SRL
Other DeniX Solutions sites: Electronics forum |  Medicine forum |  Unix/Linux blog |  Unix/Linux documentation |  Unix/Linux forums  |  send newsletters
 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.0374s ][ Queries: 16 (0.0040s) ][ GZIP on - Debug on ]