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BretCahill
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: One Engineer In the Entire Federal Bench Reply with quote

paulroybal@aol.comSpamNot (PaulRoybal) in
Quote:
Message-id: <20050111213333.16504.00000044@mb-
m16.aol.com> writes:

From: "rhybec"

It is clear from the historical record that Madison never said this.

I am unclear what your motivation in citing this is, but applying some
critical thinking skills before regurgitating neoconservative tripe
propaganda would be appreciated.

Try posting outside the sci groups.

It is not clear that James Madison did or did not say this

Why not apply that reasoning to public
school prayer and just ASSUME all the
kids were forced to kneel down a pray to
Jesus?

After all, if you don't know you can always
imagine any facts you want.


Bret Cahill





All conservatism is based on censorship of
economic information.
-- Bret Cahill
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Richard
science forum beginner


Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Subminiature pressure sensor Reply with quote

Lars Johansson wrote:
Quote:
Does anyone know about a source for very small
pressure sensors, diameter about 3mm (0.01 inch)?
I've found www.entran.com, but are they really
the only ones?


--Lars

I have some pressure transducers from Endevco the size of 10-32 screws.
In fact it screws into a 10-32 threaded hole. The "other end" of the
device is a little larger- it is turned with a 5/16" wrench. Look at
http://www.endevco.com/ they may have even smaller ones by now.

Richard
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Ned Simmons
science forum beginner


Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Glue for an oven door. Reply with quote

In article <ctodv0$4vk$1@news.freedom2surf.net>,
webmaster@srsteel.co.uk says...
Quote:
My oven door has come apart.

It has two plastic locating brackets that are held onto the glass panel
using what looks like silicone sealant.
They've come off...

I did try sticking back with Araldite with no success.
Can anyone reccomend a better adhesive for the job. Is silicone sealant
suitable??


I glued the door gasket on our convection oven back
together with plain old GE silicone caulk several years
ago. It's still working.

Ned Simmons
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MDX
science forum beginner


Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Subminiature pressure sensor Reply with quote

"Richard" <beezoboar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107351424.886279.253020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Lars Johansson wrote:
Does anyone know about a source for very small
pressure sensors, diameter about 3mm (0.01 inch)?
I've found www.entran.com, but are they really
the only ones?


--Lars

I have some pressure transducers from Endevco the size of 10-32 screws.
In fact it screws into a 10-32 threaded hole. The "other end" of the
device is a little larger- it is turned with a 5/16" wrench. Look at
http://www.endevco.com/ they may have even smaller ones by now.

Richard


Lars,

Try msi sensors: http://www.msiusa.com/icsensors/products.asp
Look at the model 1620 listed at the bottom of the page. (You'll have to
register with them to look at the datasheets). This sensor is a disposable
pressure sensor, very small, typically used for disposable blood pressure
measurements. The only down side to this particular sensor is that it does
have a shelf-life due to the gel that is used in the package. But, it is
very small. I think I was given a quote of about $1US in 10k quanities.
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N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
science forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 2835

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Subminiature pressure sensor Reply with quote

Dear Lars Johansson:

"Lars Johansson" <larjo-nix-spam@ikp.liu.se> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.53.0502020803110.5927@coulomb.ikp.liu.se...
Quote:
On Tue, 1 Feb 2005, it was written:

Dear Lars Johansson:

"Lars Johansson" <larjo-nix-spam@ikp.liu.se> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.53.0502011926370.5927@coulomb.ikp.liu.se...
Does anyone know about a source for very small
pressure sensors, diameter about 3mm (0.01 inch)?

0.1 inch, actually.

Yes, thanks, writing this was the last thing I did before
leaving work yesterday, I must have been sleepy!

I've found www.entran.com, but are they really
the only ones?

The others are larger, because they are packaged so they can be mounted
and
plumbed. Some of them look like ICs with hose barbs. Pressure
measurements are usually differential pressure measurements. Unless you
have a known-pressure reference...

What are you trying to measure the pressure of, and how will you connect
to
it?

It's intracellular fluid in the body; hence the need for as
small as possible equipment.

You will not find what you seek in a transducer, since "known pressure
references" automatically make this device as large as you have seen.

Let me suggest some alternatives... to get your noodle running.
- Sperry Flight Systems (now Honeywell) used to have a vibrating diaphragm
that had vacuum on one side, and air of unknown pressure on the other. The
vibration was pumped, but the frequency was a function of pressure.
Perhaps ultrasound or one of its close cousins...
- Speed of sound is a function of pressure also. So time of flight in a
sound pulse directed through the area of interest...
- Diffusion is a function of pressure (and more). If you can find an
innocuous substance to inject, you can track its arrival (or departure).
- Put the transducer in a syringe, and insert a needle filled with fluid
to the point of interest. With no flow, the pressure at the tip will be
the same as measured (except for altitude changes from tip-to-transducer).

Others might have some bright ideas.

David A. Smith
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Michael11
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: knurling specification for metal components? Reply with quote

look at machinery's handbook

"hob" <graham.hobbs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106992268.902457.63660@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
how is knurling specified? is it surface roughness, i.e. peak to
trough? is there any specification for angle of the knurled pyramids or
the pattern? can it be easily done on a flat surface on aluminium
alloy? thanks.
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N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
science forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 2835

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: One Engineer In the Entire Federal Bench Reply with quote

Dear BretCahill:

"BretCahill" <bretcahill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20050201235811.14053.00000324@mb-m19.aol.com...
Quote:
"N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" N:dlzc1 D:cox T:net@nospam.com in
Message-id: <DJQEd.25782$CH5.18393@fed1read01> writes:

Dear BretCahill:

"BretCahill" <bretcahill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20050111082856.09470.00000044@mb-m13.aol.com...
AOL is either not posting or not showing
my posts.

I stopped using AOL for posting to newsgroups a long time ago. Are you
using "Security Edition"? I find 5 posts by you on this thread alone.
Do
you recall more?

I can't even remember where I parked my
bicycle this morning.

Ask me something easy like the derivation
of the Euler turbo equation.

I may start using google if there are no
conflicts of interest. Wink

Anything but that. People that are posting (currently) on the new google
groups have line wrapping problems, and problems with attributions (not
automatic as I understand it). There are alternatives.

David A. Smith
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Don A. Gilmore
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: knurling specification for metal components? Reply with quote

"Michael" <mbush@light-deletedashtodash-houseoptics.com> wrote in message
news:o25Md.17533$8H2.10400@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Quote:
look at machinery's handbook


Unfortunately, this is one of those subjects where the Machinery's Handbook
isn't really connected with reality. Mine (23rd ed.) goes into a five-page
grand soliloquy about "standard" diametral pitch knurling tools of 64, 96,
128 and 160 DP, which apparently adhere to an ANSI standard from 1984. The
problem is that these are not the knurls everyone is using and one would be
hard pressed to even find them in a tooling catalog. This is another one of
those things that young engineers specify and where machinists get a good
laugh. Besides, a knurled surface is usually specified merely for use as a
gripping surface for the human hand. It's not rocket science.

There are a number of these pitfalls for the uninitiated in the M.H. Just
because something is listed in there doesn't mean that it is always
practical in the real world. There are charts showing the proper uses of
exotic carbon and alloy steels that are simply not available to an average
manufacturer. There are charts of "standard" counterbore sizes for socket
head screws, but if a machinist has an earlier version of standard
counterboring tools, he's not going to run out and buy a new set.

The M.H. is an extremely useful and indispensable reference source for
thousands of things--I've almost worn mine out--but it is necessary to use
it in conjunction with tooling and material catalogs, to see what is really
available, and to consult with machinists, operators and maintenance
personnel to determine what is practical and possible.

Don
Kansas City
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Michael11
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: knurling specification for metal components? Reply with quote

"Don A. Gilmore" <eromlignodNOSPM@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:36ca0iF509mg8U1@individual.net...
Quote:
"Michael" <mbush@light-deletedashtodash-houseoptics.com> wrote in message
news:o25Md.17533$8H2.10400@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
look at machinery's handbook


Unfortunately, this is one of those subjects where the Machinery's
Handbook
isn't really connected with reality. Mine (23rd ed.) goes into a
five-page
grand soliloquy about "standard" diametral pitch knurling tools of 64, 96,
128 and 160 DP, which apparently adhere to an ANSI standard from 1984.
The
problem is that these are not the knurls everyone is using and one would
be
hard pressed to even find them in a tooling catalog. This is another one
of
those things that young engineers specify and where machinists get a good
laugh. Besides, a knurled surface is usually specified merely for use as
a
gripping surface for the human hand. It's not rocket science.

There are a number of these pitfalls for the uninitiated in the M.H. Just
because something is listed in there doesn't mean that it is always
practical in the real world. There are charts showing the proper uses of
exotic carbon and alloy steels that are simply not available to an average
manufacturer. There are charts of "standard" counterbore sizes for socket
head screws, but if a machinist has an earlier version of standard
counterboring tools, he's not going to run out and buy a new set.

The M.H. is an extremely useful and indispensable reference source for
thousands of things--I've almost worn mine out--but it is necessary to use
it in conjunction with tooling and material catalogs, to see what is
really
available, and to consult with machinists, operators and maintenance
personnel to determine what is practical and possible.

Don
Kansas City



Don--no disagreement with your general point, but I will point out that I
said "look at" not "follow slavishly".
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bob1
science forum beginner


Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: knurling specification for metal components? Reply with quote

thanks for all the advice. the only unanswered point is - 'can it be
done on a flat surface?'. my thoughts are that it can't as the standard
knurling process involves forcing the knurling tool radially on the
rotating surface. this can't be done on a flat surface! i guess the
options are to painstakingly mill the surface or to produce a die of
some sort. any thoughts?
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Michael11
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: knurling specification for metal components? Reply with quote

yes, it can be done to a flat surface.

again--look at machinery's handbook, and then, as Don said, talk to a
skilled machinist

"hob" <graham.hobbs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107367624.972299.9830@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
thanks for all the advice. the only unanswered point is - 'can it be
done on a flat surface?'. my thoughts are that it can't as the standard
knurling process involves forcing the knurling tool radially on the
rotating surface. this can't be done on a flat surface! i guess the
options are to painstakingly mill the surface or to produce a die of
some sort. any thoughts?
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N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
science forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 2835

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: knurling specification for metal components? Reply with quote

Dear hob:

"hob" <graham.hobbs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107367624.972299.9830@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
thanks for all the advice. the only unanswered point is - 'can it be
done on a flat surface?'. my thoughts are that it can't as the standard
knurling process involves forcing the knurling tool radially on the
rotating surface. this can't be done on a flat surface! i guess the
options are to painstakingly mill the surface or to produce a die of
some sort. any thoughts?

Knurling's purpose is to increase the coefficient of static friction
(essentially). What is your intended purpose on this flat surface?

You could roll on the "roughness", like a rolling pin.
You could use a shotgun. (Sandblast can to a very rough job.)
You could EDM the pattern in.

David A. Smith
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Don A. Gilmore
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: knurling specification for metal components? Reply with quote

"hob" <graham.hobbs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107367624.972299.9830@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
thanks for all the advice. the only unanswered point is - 'can it be
done on a flat surface?'. my thoughts are that it can't as the standard
knurling process involves forcing the knurling tool radially on the
rotating surface. this can't be done on a flat surface! i guess the
options are to painstakingly mill the surface or to produce a die of
some sort. any thoughts?

Yeah, you can roll a knurl on a surface ("flat" or "face" knurling). If
you're going to do a lot of it, it really should be done with a special
rolling machine. But for "now and then" applications it is routinely done
in a vertical mill (Bridgeport). They chuck the knurling tool into the mill
spindle, press it down against the workpiece and then crank the bed back and
forth, while the tool remains stationary. The knurling wheel is set a
little deeper with each stroke until you get the desired pattern. I believe
you can use the same wheels as for rotary knurling, but you might need a
special tool holder that can be chucked into the quill.

Don
Kansas City
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BretCahill
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: One Engineer In the Entire Federal Bench Reply with quote

A direct application of logic won't work
here. Fundies will deny evolution,
Newton's law of gravity, conservation of
momentum, etc., no matter how
persuasive the evidence or authorities.
Their brains are so paralyzed with
fear they cannot think so it is a waste of
time. When they are merely being
hypocritical it's kind of a relief The proper
18th century term for the phenomenon is
"despotism" not religion.

Self described "liberal" groups who like to
pretend they are fighting the religious right
are really playing patty cake, scraping the
scum off the pond instead of doing the
obvious and draining it. At least some of
these "liberals" -- all corp. boss funded and
controlled interests -- know full well they
are perpetuating a scam. In fact every
time you expose it they start hissing like a
2 card monte couple after you ask, "how
many people are working here?"

The really funny part is when they claim
they "can't figure out" how they make a lot
of money "never figuring anything out."

Wouldn't it be nice to get a high paying
tech job "never figuring anything out?"
That would be straight out of _Alice In
Wonderland_ or _Catch-22_. Maybe have
a contest to determine who can not
figure the most out. I can not figure out 20
things before breakfast.

The well kept secret -- and the U. S.
despotism has plenty -- the obvious
solution to the problem is to reduce the
fear, to apply Jefferson's theory that
despotism is very similar to a heat engine;
it is easy to disable once you know how it
works.

_Spirit of Laws_ reads like a Chilton's
manual for politics. What am I saying?
It's much easier. And you don't even get
your hands dirty. The despotism doesn't
want you to know how mechanical, how
easy it is because then everyone will start
pulling strings.

First lesson in mechanics 101: Pushing a
rope doesn't work. Arguing with fundies
about creationism doesn't work. Try
pulling ECONOMIC strings instead.

The whole 14 figure a year scam depends
entirely on no one reading what the framers
highly recommended: "the celebrated
Montesquieu."

A math friend chuckles at my efforts and
says I'm up against a "robust system" but
that just causes me to laugh.

It's like shooting rats in a barrel. That
there are a lot of rats just makes it more
fun.


Bret Cahill


"It's hard to get a man to understand a
thing when his salary depends on his not
understanding it."

-- Upton Sinclair

"The increase in equality is, therefore, a
providential fact. It has all the chief
characteristics of such a fact. It is
universal and enduring. All men and all
events contribute to its progress."

-- DeTocqueville

"Whenever the fundamental principles of a
democratic republic are corrupted . . ."

-- Montesquieu


"N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" N:dlzc1 D:cox T:net@nospam.com in
Quote:
Message-id: <F_1Fd.25864$CH5.9297@fed1read01> writes:

Dear PaulRoybal:

"PaulRoybal" <paulroybal@aol.comSpamNot> wrote in message
news:20050111213333.16504.00000044@mb-m16.aol.com...
From: "rhybec"

It is clear from the historical record that Madison never said this.

I am unclear what your motivation in citing this is, but applying some
critical thinking skills before regurgitating neoconservative tripe
propaganda would be appreciated.

Try posting outside the sci groups.

It is not clear that James Madison did or did not say this, but it is
clear the
humanists and athiests do not think so.

It is NOT clear either what your motivation is, or what "affiliations"
those that actually researched Madison's writings have. It is QUITE clear
that Madison did NOT write the quote you provided.

The quote is a part of my signiture block. It will stay, but since it is
not
clear that James Madison did say that, then I have modified it. I do
like the
quote.

URL:http://www.christianlaw.org/display_10c.html
... there are two others on this site, that ARE attributable to Madison

"We have staked the entire future of the American civilization not upon
the
power of government, but upon the capacity of Americans to govern
themselves,
control themselves, and sustain themselves according to the Ten
Commandments of
God."

http://www.whoslying.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=60
... the source of the quote appears to be David Barton

URL:http://www.sunnetworks.net/~ggarman/montgomery-04.html
QUOTE
"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in
the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by
Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished
in their short history" (James Madison, "Father of the Constitution," as
found in Madison's essay known as "Detached Memoranda," William and Mary
Quarterly, 3:555).
END QUOTE

The past is far more interesting than your average carpet, so simply
walking on it is what we should not do.

David A. Smith











All conservatism is based on censorship of
economic information.
-- Bret Cahill
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amorrisonca1@yahoo.ca
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Why does a pot hiss? Reply with quote

Post also to sci.physics
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