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Martin H. Eastburn
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:51 am    Post subject: Re: OK what is the diferance between carbide and powdered metal ? Reply with quote

Cliff -

Metal burning cars - danger!

Suggest you get a red tank of H2 gas and put it in a forge ! : NOT!!!

It is only under extreme pressures. Not in a normal sense.

Some of the non-metals are semi- types.

Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Cliff wrote:
Quote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:34:57 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
lionslair@consolidated.net> wrote:


When you get down to the Chemical chart - most of the 'upper' part -
Above the rare earths - most of the top is a metal.


HUH?


Hydrogen on the left and then Nitrogen, Ox, F, the Noble gases
S, CL Br I and ?maybe At.


Hydrogen is a metal, right?
Fits right in above Lithium .....
BTW, The Periodic Chart *really* should be in sort of a 3D "spiral".
http://periodictable.com/pages/AAE_SeaborgPhoto.html
The "Alexander Arrangement" and Glenn Seaborg's favorite periodic table.
http://www.scs-intl.com/alexander.htm

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Cliff
science forum beginner


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:23 am    Post subject: Re: OK what is the diferance between carbide and powdered metal ? Reply with quote

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 18:39:37 GMT, BottleBob <bottlbob@earthlink.net> wrote:

Quote:
Cliff wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:34:57 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
lionslair@consolidated.net> wrote:

When you get down to the Chemical chart - most of the 'upper' part -
Above the rare earths - most of the top is a metal.

HUH?

Hydrogen on the left and then Nitrogen, Ox, F, the Noble gases
S, CL Br I and ?maybe At.

Hydrogen is a metal, right?
Fits right in above Lithium .....

Cliff:

You didn't know that Hydrogen can be considered a metal under the right
conditions, those conditions being extreme pressure?

What part of "right" was unclear?
Quote:

======================================================
Hydrogen:

Under extreme pressures, hydrogen can actually act like a metal by, for
example, conducting electricity and reflecting light. Some planetary
scientists believe that Jupiter's immense magnetic field is created by
metallic hydrogen in its core. The immense pressure at the center of
Jupiter might prevent each hydrogen atom's electron from binding to a
single nucleus. Instead, the electrons might be shared by all the
nuclei, as are electrons in a metal. This would make hydrogen conduct
electricity like other magnetic metals. Scientists have used extremely
high temperatures (approximately 5000° C or 9000° F) and high pressures
(1.8 million times the normal pressure of Earth's atmosphere at sea
level) to temporarily transform hydrogen into a metal.


"Hydrogen," Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 2000. © 1993-1999 Microsoft
Corporation. All rights reserved.
======================================================

======================================================
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen

At standard temperature and pressure, hydrogen forms a diatomic gas, H2,
with a boiling point of only 20.27 K and a melting point of 14.02 K.[1]
Under extreme pressures, such as those at the center of gas giants, the
molecules lose their identity and the hydrogen becomes a metal (metallic
hydrogen).
=======================================================

Good. BB can copy & paste from Wick.
Now, about Hydrogen Carbide .....
--
Cliff
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Cliff
science forum beginner


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: OK what is the diferance between carbide and powdered metal ? Reply with quote

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:51:53 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
<lionslair@consolidated.net> wrote:

Quote:
Cliff -

Metal burning cars - danger!

Note that Hydrogen is not only above Lithium but it's also above
Flourine in a properly done periodic table <g.

Quote:
Suggest you get a red tank of H2 gas and put it in a forge ! : NOT!!!

Gasses do expand when hot.

Quote:
It is only under extreme pressures. Not in a normal sense.

Some of the non-metals are semi- types.

Make or buy that table <G>.
It's SPDF all the way .....
http://jeries.rihani.com/index4.html
http://wine1.sb.fsu.edu/chm1045/notes/Struct/EPeriod/Struct09.htm

Quote:

Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Cliff wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:34:57 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
lionslair@consolidated.net> wrote:


When you get down to the Chemical chart - most of the 'upper' part -
Above the rare earths - most of the top is a metal.


HUH?


Hydrogen on the left and then Nitrogen, Ox, F, the Noble gases
S, CL Br I and ?maybe At.


Hydrogen is a metal, right?
Fits right in above Lithium .....
BTW, The Periodic Chart *really* should be in sort of a 3D "spiral".
http://periodictable.com/pages/AAE_SeaborgPhoto.html
The "Alexander Arrangement" and Glenn Seaborg's favorite periodic table.
http://www.scs-intl.com/alexander.htm
--

Cliff
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Cliff
science forum beginner


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: OK what is the diferance between carbide and powdered metal ? Reply with quote

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 22:49:37 GMT, BottleBob <bottlbob@earthlink.net> wrote:

Quote:
Cliff wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 17:56:55 -0500, Wade Berlin <wade@phoenixfestivals.com
wrote:

however, I
think the phrase is "Mettalic", not metal. Carbon is a non-metal,
Tungston is a metal, and the resulting alloy is metallic, not a metal.

But Tungsten Carbide is not an alloy.


Cliff:

Depends on who you ask.

From Encarta Encyclopedia:
========================================================
Alloy:

Substance composed of two or more metals.

So Carbon is a metal per your lint?
--
Cliff
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Cliff
science forum beginner


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: O.T.- Chrome plating on salt water boat items?? Reply with quote

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 11:37:52 -0600, Jeff Finlayson <finlayson@hiwaaay.not>
wrote:

Quote:
Cliff wrote:

Cross posting materials stuff to news groups like sci.engr.metallurgy
and sci.engr.chem would make far more sense than Mechanical Engineering
groups.

They don't depend on materials?
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0205/08aerogel/aerogel.jpg
--
Cliff
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Jeff Finlayson
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: O.T.- Chrome plating on salt water boat items?? Reply with quote

Cliff wrote:
Quote:
Jeff Finlayson wrote:
Cliff wrote:

Cross posting materials stuff to news groups like sci.engr.metallurgy
and sci.engr.chem would make far more sense than Mechanical Engineering
groups.

They don't depend on materials?

I didn't say MEs don't use them.

> http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0205/08aerogel/aerogel.jpg
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Jo Schaper
science forum beginner


Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:45 am    Post subject: Re: OK what is the diferance between carbide and powdered metal ? Reply with quote

Cliff wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 18:39:37 GMT, BottleBob <bottlbob@earthlink.net> wrote:


Cliff wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:34:57 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
lionslair@consolidated.net> wrote:


When you get down to the Chemical chart - most of the 'upper' part -
Above the rare earths - most of the top is a metal.

HUH?


Hydrogen on the left and then Nitrogen, Ox, F, the Noble gases
S, CL Br I and ?maybe At.

The poster obviously doesn't know his left from his right. Elements on
the left are metals, the center, semi-metals, the right, non-metals, and
extreme right gases.

Unless someone has greatly redrawn that ol' chart on the wall....
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Martin H. Eastburn
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: OK what is the diferance between carbide and powdered metal ? Reply with quote

I once had a chemical chart of he elements that a scientist at DOW chemical
did - He was or is one of the top cats in chemistry there - it was in a
oval shape of sorts - really. All of the elements fit nicely and related
to each other as they should. The 'standard' one doesn't really fit all modes
and the L/A series is a messy set.

Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Cliff wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:51:53 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
lionslair@consolidated.net> wrote:


Cliff -

Metal burning cars - danger!


Note that Hydrogen is not only above Lithium but it's also above
Flourine in a properly done periodic table <g.


Suggest you get a red tank of H2 gas and put it in a forge ! : NOT!!!


Gasses do expand when hot.


It is only under extreme pressures. Not in a normal sense.

Some of the non-metals are semi- types.


Make or buy that table <G>.
It's SPDF all the way .....
http://jeries.rihani.com/index4.html
http://wine1.sb.fsu.edu/chm1045/notes/Struct/EPeriod/Struct09.htm


Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Cliff wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:34:57 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
lionslair@consolidated.net> wrote:



When you get down to the Chemical chart - most of the 'upper' part -
Above the rare earths - most of the top is a metal.


HUH?



Hydrogen on the left and then Nitrogen, Ox, F, the Noble gases
S, CL Br I and ?maybe At.


Hydrogen is a metal, right?
Fits right in above Lithium .....
BTW, The Periodic Chart *really* should be in sort of a 3D "spiral".
http://periodictable.com/pages/AAE_SeaborgPhoto.html
The "Alexander Arrangement" and Glenn Seaborg's favorite periodic table.
http://www.scs-intl.com/alexander.htm

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
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Cliff
science forum beginner


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: OK what is the diferance between carbide and powdered metal ? Reply with quote

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:45:04 -0600, Jo Schaper
<joschapern4ospam@2socketdot.no5net> wrote:

Quote:
Cliff wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 18:39:37 GMT, BottleBob <bottlbob@earthlink.net> wrote:


Cliff wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:34:57 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
lionslair@consolidated.net> wrote:


When you get down to the Chemical chart - most of the 'upper' part -
Above the rare earths - most of the top is a metal.

HUH?


Hydrogen on the left and then Nitrogen, Ox, F, the Noble gases
S, CL Br I and ?maybe At.

The poster obviously doesn't know his left from his right. Elements on
the left are metals, the center, semi-metals, the right, non-metals, and
extreme right gases.

Unless someone has greatly redrawn that ol' chart on the wall....

DNA.
National Dyslexia Association.
--
Cliff
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Cliff
science forum beginner


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: OK what is the diferance between carbide and powdered metal ? Reply with quote

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:31:37 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
<lionslair@consolidated.net> wrote:

Quote:
I once had a chemical chart of he elements that a scientist at DOW chemical
did - He was or is one of the top cats in chemistry there - it was in a
oval shape of sorts - really. All of the elements fit nicely and related
to each other as they should. The 'standard' one doesn't really fit all modes
and the L/A series is a messy set.

Martin,
I assume that you did not check the links I posted .....
--
Cliff
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Martin H. Eastburn
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:25 am    Post subject: Re: OK what is the diferance between carbide and powdered metal ? Reply with quote

Yep - lots of sites with those - the chart I was talking about was way COOL!
Martin - there was a site at Sandia - but I suspect it was taken off. Security issues.
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Cliff wrote:
Quote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:31:37 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
lionslair@consolidated.net> wrote:


I once had a chemical chart of he elements that a scientist at DOW chemical
did - He was or is one of the top cats in chemistry there - it was in a
oval shape of sorts - really. All of the elements fit nicely and related
to each other as they should. The 'standard' one doesn't really fit all modes
and the L/A series is a messy set.


Martin,
I assume that you did not check the links I posted .....

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Cliff
science forum beginner


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: OK what is the diferance between carbide and powdered metal ? Reply with quote

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:25:01 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
<lionslair@consolidated.net> wrote:

Quote:
Yep - lots of sites with those - the chart I was talking about was way COOL!
Martin - there was a site at Sandia - but I suspect it was taken off. Security issues.

I don't see why such would have been for such a reason.
Perhaps a bit more searching with various keywords might find it there or
elsewhere.

It's not quite like the neocons have managed to hide the concepts of atoms
& electrons. Yet.

Quote:
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Cliff wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:31:37 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
lionslair@consolidated.net> wrote:


I once had a chemical chart of he elements that a scientist at DOW chemical
did - He was or is one of the top cats in chemistry there - it was in a
oval shape of sorts - really. All of the elements fit nicely and related
to each other as they should. The 'standard' one doesn't really fit all modes
and the L/A series is a messy set.


Martin,
I assume that you did not check the links I posted .....
--

Cliff
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Billy H
science forum beginner


Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: I need more Brain Juice here Reply with quote

"Mike Yarwood" <mpyarwood@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:dre7g9$p35$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
Quote:

guskz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138400952.438109.3010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Web link:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/pman.html#meac

The water level would be the same in both vertical tubes in the above
static fluid model regardless of the diameter of each tube.

F = density x Area x height x g ..... (Area x height = volume)

Pressure = F/Area = density x height x g = Fluid's Mass x g / Area


What I don't get is:

If one of the 2 tubes of water was a large ***CONE*** shape at its
top....then how come the water level would still be the same level in
both tubes..... Since the Pressure should be higher there?

Pressure = Force/Area (= Fuid's Mass inside the CONE/ Narrower Area
at the Cone's bottom)..... Therefore how come the pressure at the base
of the CONE isn't much higher than that of a simple vertical tube
(since if that was the case then the water wouldn't be the same level
in both tubes)????

\ / | |
\ / | |
| | | |
| ------------------- |
|________________|

The short answer is that the sides of the cone support some of the weight
of the water in the cone.

Best of luck - Mike



the pressures are equal.

the heads should be at the same level.
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Billy H
science forum beginner


Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: I need more Brain Juice here Reply with quote

<guskz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138404624.077302.16630@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

Mike Yarwood wrote:
guskz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138402665.222073.52980@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Mike Yarwood wrote:
guskz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138400952.438109.3010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Web link:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/pman.html#meac

The water level would be the same in both vertical tubes in the
above
static fluid model regardless of the diameter of each tube.

F = density x Area x height x g ..... (Area x height = volume)

Pressure = F/Area = density x height x g = Fluid's Mass x g / Area


What I don't get is:

If one of the 2 tubes of water was a large ***CONE*** shape at its
top....then how come the water level would still be the same level
in
both tubes..... Since the Pressure should be higher there?

Pressure = Force/Area (= Fuid's Mass inside the CONE/ Narrower
Area
at the Cone's bottom)..... Therefore how come the pressure at the
base
of the CONE isn't much higher than that of a simple vertical tube
(since if that was the case then the water wouldn't be the same
level
in both tubes)????

\ / | |
\ / | |
| | | |
| ------------------- |
|________________|

The short answer is that the sides of the cone support some of the
weight
of
the water in the cone.

Best of luck - Mike

Up to a certain point, a heavy block on a slope will still exert a
downward force.
(Not 100% force but fy = force x sin (slope angle))???

Yep but your water is a static fluid so we are neglecting any friction
forces (and surface tension) - draw some arrows but make sure they are
all
normal to surfaces.
Best of Luck - Mike

For a block on a slope the arrows forces are not null, and therefore
there would be a force excerted at the base of the slope as well as the
walls of the slope...

If there was a heavy block on a slope it would excert a force on the
slope (cone's walls), as well as a vertical and horizontal force:

Fy = block's weight x g

F along slope = Fy / sin (slope's ange)

Fx = Fy / cos (slope's angle)

So if you has 3 springs:

1. Fy= One at the same angle as the cones wall would be compressed
(representing the force excerted by the block on the wall itself)
2. F = One just below the block on the slope would also be compressed

3. Fx = and One just to the left of the block would also be compressed

????


Unless perhaps Fx of adjacent fluid molecules and Fy of cone's wall are
sufficient to nullify any F going down along the cones walls???


The mechanics of fluids have little in common besides the physical
properties. Fluid friction (viscosity) is measured in terms of the velocity
it travels as a body proportional to other parts of it away from the wall.
du/dy
and it's resolution is pretty complicated.

Fluid statics does not involve viscosity.

Pressure is constant at any given depth regardless of the shape of the
vessels.

c.f. water levels
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Billy H
science forum beginner


Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:56 pm    Post subject: Re: I need more Brain Juice here Reply with quote

"Tom Sanderson" <tdscanuck@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Iu56vt.46z@news.boeing.com...
Quote:
"YouGoFirst" <yougofirst@hotmail.com> wrote
I have thought about it, and here is the simplest answer that I can come
up with. The reason that you don't have a difference in the water level
is simple, much more simple than what everybody else is trying to
propose.

The water remains the same level because it is at it's lowest potential
energy state.

The other answer, that's basically as simple, is that pressure always acts
normal to the solid surface.

People often ignore that because so many fluids problems use vertical
walls where the net force at any level integrates to zero. This is *not*
true for sloped walls.

Tom.




It's about horizontal and vertical equilibrium in statics.



If you want an explanation I'll write one and email it, it's hard to draw
figures on usenet.


--
Billy H

The spirit is not the letter, 2 corinthians 3,6

When a ship heels at sea she must give equal
draught to lee as she takes to windward.
Else she becomes unstable fore and aft, and
may become quite sickly.

Nantes-Howard Naval Architecture 'n' Terrestrial Engineering Services.

A subsidiary of Howard Engineering.
_________________________________________
Live like a ship. Give and Take.
=========================================
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