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Forum index » Science and Technology » Chem » Electrochem
Electrons flow in conductors induced by potential generated by ions (Na+ and Cl-) separation in water!
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Pankaj
science forum beginner


Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:07 pm    Post subject: Electrons flow in conductors induced by potential generated by ions (Na+ and Cl-) separation in water! Reply with quote

Hi All

I am conducting a project where my attempt is to use the potential
difference generated by charge separation in water i.e. Na+ and Cl-
ions, to generate electron flow in the external circuit. Its completely
a theoretical project at the moment, as I have'nt tried anything
physically yet. I have one major concern at the moment that how will I
have electricity flow in the external circuit using this ionic
potantial difference. The concept is very simple, to create potential
difference in water by separating sodium and chloride ions and then
using this potential difference to create electrical conduction in the
external circuit.
Can anyone please tell me if its possible to create electron flow in
the external circuit by separating Na+ and Cl- ions in water.

Cheers
Pankaj
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Lasse Murtomäki
science forum beginner


Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 6:46 am    Post subject: Re: Electrons flow in conductors induced by potential generated by ions (Na+ and Cl-) separation in water! Reply with quote

You need a cation and an anion exchange membrane and a cell with three
compartments membranes separating them. Put NaCl in high concentration in
the middle compartment, and dilute solution in the other ones. When you
close the circuit, Na+ is crossing the cation exchange membrane and Cl- the
anion exchange membrane, and current is flowing in the external circuit
until concentrations are levelled. This is called reversed electrodialysis.

--
Lasse Murtomäki
Helsinki Univ. Tech.
Lab.Phys.Chem.Electrochem.
lasse.murtomaki@tkk.fi
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akhil.argal@gmail.com
science forum beginner


Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 2:18 am    Post subject: Re: Electrons flow in conductors induced by potential generated by ions (Na+ and Cl-) separation in water! Reply with quote

Hello Mr Murtomaki

Thank you very much for your feedback. I came across this concept of
charged membranes to create potential difference. But what I am
confused about is whether this potential difference generated by ion
separation can generate electrons flow in the external circuit. As far
as I know for an electron flow there need to be supply of electrons
from the negative terminals towards the positive terminals. In this
case the chamber with chloride ions represents the negative terminal,
So my question is will the chloride ions release electrons in the
external medium when connected by a conductor.
Will highly appreciate your prompt reply.

Cheers
Pankaj
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Lasse Murtomäki
science forum beginner


Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 5:53 am    Post subject: Re: Electrons flow in conductors induced by potential generated by ions (Na+ and Cl-) separation in water! Reply with quote

Of course you need electrodes in the dilute phases, AgCl electrodes would be
ideal. At the anode Cl- is precipitated as AgCl, and at the cathode AgCl is
dissolved. The reaction would be:

AgCl + e- = Ag + Cl-

Cathodic reaction takes place form 'left to right' and the anodic one vice
versa.
--
Lasse Murtomäki
Helsinki Univ. Tech.
Lab.Phys.Chem.Electrochem.
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Pankaj
science forum beginner


Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Electrons flow in conductors induced by potential generated by ions (Na+ and Cl-) separation in water! Reply with quote

Thank you very much Mr Murtomaki

I am very glad that you spend your time to solve my problem. I do not
have enough words in my vocabulary to appreciate your help but I
sincerely appreciate the information that you have supplied to me.
One final confirmation that if its possible to generate electricity
this way then why is this technique not commercialised i.e. why it is
not used to generate electricity from Sea water which is full of ions
or whether it is used to generate electricity. I want to try this
experiment and demonstrate that electricity can be generated this way
(by the end of this month). Can you please kindly tell me from where
can I get these membranes and the electrodes.
Your guidance has enlightened me, since I lost hope that it can be
done. But sir its your courtesy that I can finish my project and
demonstrate something to the audience in the final presentation.
I highly appreciate your donation of knowledge and time. If you need
any help sir, I will be more than happy to help you.
My email address is JMATrivedi@gmail.com

Thank you once again
Cheers
Pankaj Trivedi
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