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TURMEL: Islamic group censors "RIBA and USURY" article
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John Turmel
science forum Guru


Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 424

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 5:34 am    Post subject: TURMEL: Islamic group censors "RIBA and USURY" article Reply with quote

JCT: I subscribe to two islamic economics groups,
IBG_Malaysia@yahoogroups.com and hidayahnet@yahoogroups.com

IBG_Malaysia@yahoogroups.com posted my article on the
difference between interest-free Islamic piggy banking and
interest-free Islamic casino banking,
hidayahnet@yahoogroups.com did not.

It's not as if I haven't courted Islam with LETS. I have.

As http://www.cyberclass.net/turmel/islamuk.htm explains how
there are many muslims who support borrowing new interest-
free social credits from our own creationary Islamic banks
rather than islamic piggy banking interest-free loans with
government anti-social credits.

There are two kinds of Islamic banking. "Creationary banks,"
like real banks and casino banks, which generate and use
their own currencies and "Savings banks," like Islamic banks
and piggy banks which use kept-scarce government currencies.

So I guess an article about a LETS creationary bank which
also conforms to the Prophet's dictum not to lend money at
interest" might strike at the cognitive dissonance of a
moderator with only piggy banking on his mind? Or force a bankster
mole mole to censor it with the aim of keeping Islamic
banking (piggy, that is) small and ineffectual.

I've only sent one other post, the part of my Bible Poetry
from http://www.cyberclass.net/turmel/pombible.htm about
Mohammed

KORAN
Another prophet great, Mohammed known in Muslim lands,
Decreed that it was sinful if one interest demands.
In the Koran in Chapter two, at verse two seven five,
We find inspired advice from God from which we may derive:

"Those who devour usury won't stand up inasmuch,
As stands those whom the Evil One has maddened by his touch.
That is to say that "Trade is similar to usury,
But God permitted trade but not the usurious fee.

Those who accept their Lord's command, desisting with no grudge,
Shall be forgiven for it's up to God their case to judge.
But those who do repeat offence, the consequences dire,
Abiding in forever as Companions of the Fire.

God will deprive the usury of all blessing perceived,
But will give increase for the charity to those in need.
For not He loveth creatures wicked and ungrateful so,
Give up demand for usury, as true believers go.

But if ye do it not you should take notice of a war
From God and his Apostle is the thing you have in store.
But if ye turn back ye shall have your sums of capital,
Deal not unjustly. Ye'll not be unjustly made to fall.

So if your debtor has some difficulty to repay,
Grant him some time until when he is capable the day.
But if you should remit it by an act of charity,
That is the best for you if only ye knew verily.

And fear the day when ye'll be brought to face His Godly poll,
Then shall be paid that what was earned by each and every soul.
In Chapter three: 130, "Not devour usury,
Doubled, multiplied, it's not way to prosperity.

In Chapter 30:39, "That which ye lend for more,
Through property of others will not count as Godly score.
But that which ye lay out for charity when needy cry,
Will show God's increase as the recompenses multiply.

JCT: I just can't imagine what kind of reason moderator
hidayahnet-owner@yahoogroups.com of the Islamic group
http://yahoogroups.com/group/hidayahnet could have for
censoring a poem honoring the Prophet's Teachings? And now
censoring articles about usury from a supporter of Islamic
creationary interest-free banking!

The problem is that subscribers of censored groups don't
know if and when their reading matter is being censored. How
do they know what never got through? Anyway, for those
interested in discussion about islamic financing, both
kinds, I can recommend
http://yahoogroups.com/group/IBG_Malaysia and
http://yahoogroups.com/group/turmel and even
http://yahoogroups.com/group/ijccr for really good examples
of how Mammon Mesmerizes Mental Midgets. Some write there's
no problem owing 11 when the banks only printed and lent out
10. Har har har har.
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Greg Locock
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: TURMEL: Islamic group censors "RIBA and USURY" article Reply with quote

Jeez, why are they the lucky ones? Can the engineers censor your boring
self-obsessed twaddle as well? We'd really like our newsgroup back, you
piss-drinking lame-arse.

Cheers (but I'll stick to wine)

Greg Locock
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w_b_ryan@yahoo.com
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 134

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 2:08 pm    Post subject: Islamic group censors "RIBA and USURY" article Reply with quote

This obnoxious liar blasphemes the Bible and Koran
both with his concocted "quotations" and perverse
interpretations, and compounds his crime through
crossposting to numerous lists.
----------------------------------------------

The following are from authentic scholars:

http://www.submission.org/islam/interest-usury.html

"The Quran forbids usury, not interest. Quite a few
states in USA have laws against usury. Usury is
defined as excessive interest. A Dictionary defines
usury as 'an excessive or inordinate premium for the
use of money borrowed', 'extortionate interest', or
'the practice of taking exorbitant or excessive
interest.' The Arabic language also makes distinction
between interest (Fa'eda) and usury (Reba). The Quran
forbids Reba or usury."

--------------------------------------------

Which is perfectly consistent with the modern Jewish
and Christian perspectives on the matter:

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/jones.usury

"John Calvin's letter on usury of 1545 made it clear
that when Christ said 'lend hoping for nothing in
return,' He meant that we should help the poor freely.
Following the rule of equity, we should judge people
by their circumstances, not by legal definitions.
Humanist that he was, Calvin knew there were two
Hebrew words translated as 'usury.' One, neshek,
meant 'to bite'; the other, tarbit, meant 'to take
legitimate increase.' Based on these distinctions,
Calvin argued that only 'biting' loans were forbidden.
Thus, one could lend at interest to business people
who would make a profit using the money. To the
working poor one could lend without interest, but
expect the loan to be repaid. To the impoverished one
should give without expecting repayment."
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Taelon
science forum beginner


Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Islamic group censors "RIBA and USURY" article Reply with quote

<w_b_ryan@yahoo.com> wrote:

Quote:
This obnoxious liar blasphemes the Bible and Koran
both with his concocted "quotations" and perverse
interpretations, and compounds his crime through
crossposting to numerous lists.

Who is this cock sucker w_b_ryan@yahoo.com and why doesn't he kill himself?




























*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
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Greg Locock
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 11:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Islamic group censors "RIBA and USURY" article Reply with quote

Taelon <taelon139@sympatico.ca> wrote in
news:MPG.1ed90267418dc250989c53@free.teranews.com:

Quote:
w_b_ryan@yahoo.com> wrote:

This obnoxious liar blasphemes the Bible and Koran
both with his concocted "quotations" and perverse
interpretations, and compounds his crime through
crossposting to numerous lists.

Who is this cock sucker w_b_ryan@yahoo.com and why doesn't he kill
himself?


He's just got one job to do first, that is getting the tiresome bore Turmel
to quit posting in sci.engr After that he can do what he likes.
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Chip Flintknapper
science forum beginner


Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 4:11 am    Post subject: Re: Islamic group censors "RIBA and USURY" article Reply with quote

Taelon wrote:
Quote:
w_b_ryan@yahoo.com> wrote:


This obnoxious liar blasphemes the Bible and Koran
both with his concocted "quotations" and perverse
interpretations, and compounds his crime through
crossposting to numerous lists.


Who is this cock sucker w_b_ryan@yahoo.com and why doesn't he kill himself?


Check the crossposts:

ca.politics, can.legal, alt.drugs, sci.econ, sci.engr

Trolls often crosspost to unrelated groups seeking responses. I'm really
not so sure what they do with them afterwards, but I'm sure it involved
either spam or self-gratification.

*
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Chip Flintknapper
science forum beginner


Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 4:14 am    Post subject: Re: Islamic group censors "RIBA and USURY" article Reply with quote

Greg Locock wrote:
Quote:
Taelon <taelon139@sympatico.ca> wrote in
news:MPG.1ed90267418dc250989c53@free.teranews.com:


w_b_ryan@yahoo.com> wrote:


This obnoxious liar blasphemes the Bible and Koran
both with his concocted "quotations" and perverse
interpretations, and compounds his crime through
crossposting to numerous lists.


Who is this cock sucker w_b_ryan@yahoo.com and why doesn't he kill
himself?



He's just got one job to do first, that is getting the tiresome bore Turmel
to quit posting in sci.engr After that he can do what he likes.

What is with Turmel and his "Man Older Than Coal" nonsense?

Whenever I tried to mark the thread as read, I realized that each new
"message" had a subtly different subject line, so that it couldn't be
blocked that way.

What a nuisance!

*
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Ian MacLure
science forum beginner


Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Islamic group censors "RIBA and USURY" article Reply with quote

Chip Flintknapper <nobody@home.us> wrote in
news:mORbg.3274$921.698@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net:

Quote:
Greg Locock wrote:
Taelon <taelon139@sympatico.ca> wrote in
news:MPG.1ed90267418dc250989c53@free.teranews.com:


w_b_ryan@yahoo.com> wrote:


This obnoxious liar blasphemes the Bible and Koran
both with his concocted "quotations" and perverse
interpretations, and compounds his crime through
crossposting to numerous lists.


Who is this cock sucker w_b_ryan@yahoo.com and why doesn't he kill
himself?



He's just got one job to do first, that is getting the tiresome bore
Turmel to quit posting in sci.engr After that he can do what he likes.

What is with Turmel and his "Man Older Than Coal" nonsense?

Its the usual ICR turn-off-all-the-lights-in-the-stadium-claim-
you-have-the-ball-and-its-in-the-endzone BS.

No one who could provide independent scrutiny of
their claims is ever allowed near the "evidences".

IBM
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Chip Flintknapper
science forum beginner


Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: TURMEL: Islamic group censors "RIBA and USURY" article Reply with quote

I've decided to make a project out of you, Turdmel.

*
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Michael Hearne
science forum beginner


Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: Islamic group censors "RIBA and USURY" article Reply with quote

Ian MacLure wrote:
Quote:
Chip Flintknapper <nobody@home.us> wrote in
news:mORbg.3274$921.698@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net:


Greg Locock wrote:

Taelon <taelon139@sympatico.ca> wrote in
news:MPG.1ed90267418dc250989c53@free.teranews.com:



w_b_ryan@yahoo.com> wrote:



This obnoxious liar blasphemes the Bible and Koran
both with his concocted "quotations" and perverse
interpretations, and compounds his crime through
crossposting to numerous lists.


Who is this cock sucker w_b_ryan@yahoo.com and why doesn't he kill
himself?



He's just got one job to do first, that is getting the tiresome bore
Turmel to quit posting in sci.engr After that he can do what he likes.

What is with Turmel and his "Man Older Than Coal" nonsense?


Its the usual ICR turn-off-all-the-lights-in-the-stadium-claim-
you-have-the-ball-and-its-in-the-endzone BS.

No one who could provide independent scrutiny of
their claims is ever allowed near the "evidences".

IBM

Well, is he somehow making money or is he just full of himself?

Michael
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Ian MacLure
science forum beginner


Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Islamic group censors "RIBA and USURY" article Reply with quote

Michael Hearne <here@home.us> wrote in
news:d%beg.7$1r6.5@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

Quote:
Ian MacLure wrote:

[snip]

Quote:

Its the usual ICR turn-off-all-the-lights-in-the-stadium-claim-
you-have-the-ball-and-its-in-the-endzone BS.

No one who could provide independent scrutiny of
their claims is ever allowed near the "evidences".

IBM

Well, is he somehow making money or is he just full of himself?

Well, he's certainly full of something....

IBM
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