science forum Guru
Joined: 07 May 2005
|Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject:
TURMEL: AMERIKA's Money - FIAT well of course. NOT
|Date: Tue May 30, 2006 7:23 pm (PDT)
From: "judson witham" email@example.com
Subject: [catapult] AMERIKA's Money - FIAT well of course
JCT: Remember, as long as government or the guy with the gun
will take the paper back that he's giving me, it's not fiat.
This ends up with a whole list of quotes on money by the
world's most learned banking systems engineering theorists.
Many think inflation is too much money chasing the goods,
Shift A Inflation and have no concept of the same money
chasing less goods after foreclosure, Shift B inflation.
Nevertheless, there are some great historical observations
about our malfunctioning anti-social credit system.
Also, to best highlight the flaws in the thinking of Shift A
inflation believers, I always refer to the use of casino
chips as my example medium and no interest as my example
JW: PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO VIEW THIS VIDEO
Money, Banking and the Federal Reserve
Ludwig von Mises Institute
41 min 25 sec - Jun 1, 1996 http://www.mises.org
JCT: The backwards-looking Shift A inflation bunch.
JW: Educate Yourself http://www.fame.com
Foundation for the Advancement of Monetary Education
JCT: With a bit of yellow rock theory thrown in.
JW: Prominent Pioneers & Rangers WAKE UP
Larry Parks, Executive Director, FAME "With the monetary
system we have now, the careful saving of a lifetime can be
wiped out in an eyeblink."
JCT: It's as easy as calling in all loans at the same time
causing a dumping of stocks with no one buying.
JW: George Bernard Shaw: "You have to choose [as a voter]
between trusting to the natural stability of gold and the
natural stability of the honesty and intelligence of the
members of the Government. And, with due respect for these
gentlemen, I advise you, as long as the Capitalist system
lasts, to vote for gold.
JCT: As long as the "monopoly-Capitalist" system of usury
exists, sure, bet on gold. Once money equals debt forever,
you can bet on your neighbor's IOU for an hour of help when
you have a work-bee to rebuild your barn.
JW: Voltaire (1694-1778) Paper money eventually returns to
its intrinsic value ---- zero.
JCT: The Smith clan's IOU token for an hour worth of 60
minutes eventually returns to a worth of 0 minutes. Not.
JW: Daniel Webster, speech in the Senate, 1833 "We are in
danger of being overwhelmed with irredeemable paper, mere
paper, representing not gold nor silver; no sir,
representing nothing but broken promises, bad faith,
bankrupt corporations, cheated creditors and a ruined
JCT: Because the corporations have been foreclosed on.
Otherwise those corporation notes could still be collected
JW: Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1816: I sincerely
believe.. that banking establishments are more dangerous
than standing armies,
JCT: Who could challenge a hidden power greater than
standing armies? Given such famous losers such as Spartacus,
King of the slaves, who attacked Rome and lost, Ayn Rand's
John The Engineer Galt, "Atlas shrugged," by going out on
strike until the sheep overthrow the wolves.
JW: and that the principle of spending money to be paid by
posterity under the name of funding is but swindling
futurity on a large scale.
JCT: Turning the children into debt slaves to usury for
using the credit machine is the real crime, not using the
JW: Daniel Webster "Of all the contrivances for cheating the
laboring classes of mankind, none has been more effective
than that which deludes them with paper money."
JCT: As if mankind had not been swindled by banksters with
gold in previous millennia. It's not the choice of medium,
metal or wood, that's wrong, it's the feedback on that
chosen medium causing the swindle.
JW: St. Louis Federal Reserve Bank, Review, Nov. 1975, p.22
"The decrease in purchasing power incurred by holders of
money due to inflation imparts gains to the issuers of
JCT: Sure, some benefit by the over-all loss by the team.
JW: Federal Reserve Bank, New York The Story of Banks, p.5.
"Because of 'fractional' reserve system, banks, as a whole,
can expand our money supply several times, by making loans
JCT: LETS casino banks can expand the chip supply in exactly
the same way.
JW: Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia, Gold, p. 10
"Without the confidence factor, many believe a paper money
system is liable to collapse eventually."
JCT: Depends on whether the token represents a stable
JW: Federal reserve Bank of New York, I Bet You Thought,
p.19 "Commercial banks create checkbook money whenever they
grant a loan, simply by adding new deposit dollars in
accounts on their books in exchange for a borrower's IOU."
JCT: In exactly the same way a casino will credit the
gambler's chip account in exchange for the IOU marker.
JW: Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, Modern Money Mechanics,
p.3 "The actual process of money creation takes place in
commercial banks. As noted earlier, demand liabilities of
commercial banks are money."
U.S. Supreme Court, Craig v. Missouri, 4 Peters 410.
"Emitting bills of credit, or the creation of money by
private corporations, is what is expressly forbidden by
Article 1, Section 10 of the U.S. Constitution."
JCT: And that is exactly what LETS permits people and
corporations to do. Sergio Lub created Favors for his
customers to use among themselves and in his store. Much
like Canadian Tire money is used in the store and can be
used among customers.
JW:James A. Garfield "Whoever controls the volume of money
in any country is absolute master of all industry and
JCT: Moneylenders rule. Jesus attacked them with a whip, not
JW: Frederic Bastiat, The Law "When plunder becomes a way of
life for a group of men living together in society, they
create for themselves in the course of time a legal system
that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
JCT: And is our justice system a perversion to behold. I've
watched men in robes condemn the innocent to death on a
bluff. I've seen robed ones violate their oaths of office so
many times, I've seen robed ones prostitute themselves to
some hidden Mammon, so often, it's nauseating. What's
worse, when I'm through, I'll have to forgive them.
JW: Irving Fisher, 100% Money "Thus, our national
circulating medium is now at the mercy of loan transactions
of banks, which lend, not money, but promises to supply
money they do not possess."
JCT: Those chips based on promises work just fine in casinos
and LETS. So while we strive for the vast solution, Irving
isn't only striving for a half-vast solution but a
completely backward one. LETS has 0% reserves required,
Irving wants 100%.
JW: John Maynard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the
Peace, 1920, page 240 "If, however, a government refrains
from regulations and allows matters to take their course,
essential commodities soon attain a level of price out of
the reach of all but the rich, the worthlessness of the
money becomes apparent, and the fraud upon the public can be
concealed no longer."
JCT: Prices going up make money worthless or money becoming
worthless makes prices go up?
JW: John Maynard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the
Peace, 1920, page 235ff "Lenin is said to have declared that
the best way to destroy the Capitalistic System was to
debauch the currency... Lenin was certainly right. There is
no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis
of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages
all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of
destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a
million can diagnose."
JCT: Neat number. I've always argued that one Marc Gauvin or
one Tom Kennedy can do more than can be done by the millions
amongst whom the banksters have sown error.
JW: Ralph M. Hawtrey, former Secretary of Treasury, England
"Banks lend by creating credit. They create the means of
payment out of nothing."
JCT: Not nothing. It's created out of metal and die, paper
and ink, computer blips, just like casinos can credit my
account with computer blips, or give me chips with material
and die, or paper and ink.
JW:Robert H. Hemphill, former credit manager, Federal
Reserve Bank of Atlanta "Money is the most important subject
intellectual persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is
so important that our present civilization may collapse
unless it is widely understood and its defects remedied very
JCT: I guess my focusing on fixing money to the detriment of
fixing all its symptoms was a pretty good idea.
JW: Sir Josiah Stamp, former President, Bank of England
"Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave
them the power to create money and control credit, and with
a flick of a pen they will create enough to buy it back."
JCT: Said when most people thought money was gold and banks
lent out people's old savings rather than real new credits.
JW: Rt. Hon. Reginald McKenna, former Chancellor of
Exchequer, England "Those who create and issue money and
credit direct the policies of government and hold in the
hollow of their hands the destiny of the people."
JCT: The moneylenders rule. One reason Jesus focused his
whip, not sword, on the money-lenders ruling then too.
JW: John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson "All the
perplexities, confusion and distresses in America arise not
from defects in the constitution or confederation, nor from
want of honor or virtue, as much from downright ignorance of
the nature of coin, credit, and circulation
JCT: And people still remain confused by the thought that
there are too many poker chips in circulation causing all
that inflation Shift A.
JW: William Jennings Bryan "Money power denounces, as public
enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon
JCT: Banksters played dirty to rule.
JW: George Washington, in letter to J. Bowen, Rhode Island,
Jan. 9, 1787 "Paper money has had the effect in your state
that it will ever have, to ruin commerce, oppress the
honest, and open the door to every species of fraud and
JCT: And yet Benjamin Franklin said paper money issued in
the proper amount was the reason for the general prosperity
of the American colonies:
The "Continentals" did their job until King George did state:
"There'll be no use of your own plates, for gold you'll have to wait."
Though we've been told that their revolt was over tax for tea,
Ben Franklin said "The war's because they took our currency."
JW: George Bancroft, A Plea for the Constitution (1886)
"Madison, agreeing with the journal of the convention,
records that the grant of power to emit bills of credit was
refused by a majority of more than four to one. The evidence
is perfect; no power to emit paper money was granted to the
legislature of the United States."
JCT: Pretty stupid to leave the power to emit paper money to
private powers who bought to politicians who would cede such
power to them.
JW: Article One, Section Ten, United States Constitution "No
state shall emit bills of credit, make any thing but gold
and silver coin a tender in payment of debts, coin money."
JCT: Talk about sabotaging the financial machinery of state.
JW: John C. Calhoun, Speech 5/27/1836 "A power has risen up
in the government greater than the people themselves,
consisting of many and various powerful interest, combined
in one mass; and held together by the cohesive power of the
vast surplus in banks."
JCT: Throughout all of history, the international bankers'
cartel has bullied national powers.
JW: Andrew Jackson: To delegation of bankers discussing the
Bank Renewal Bill, 1832 "You are a den of vipers and
thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I
will rout you out."
JCT: Andy was a great one.
JW: Treasury Secretary Woodin, 3/7/33 "Where would we be if
we had I.O.U.'s scrip and certificates floating all around
JCT: Pretty good if the interest-free chips issued were all
based on the same kind of collateral.
JW: Instead he decided to "issue currency against the
JCT: Another yellow rock fan.
JW: The Federal Reserve Act lets us print all we'll need.
And it won't frighten the people. It won't look like stage
money. It'll be money that looks like real money." [Emphasis
added.] (Source: 'Closed for the Holiday: The Bank Holiday
of 1933', p20 - Federal Reserve Bank of Boston)
JCT: Scaring people away from their salvation, their own
money looking like everyone else's real money because it is.
JW:John Kenneth Galbraith "The study of money, above all
other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is
used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it."
JCT: How hard to understand can they make poker chips?
JW: Money: Whence it came, where it went - 1975, p15 John
Kenneth Galbraith "The process by which banks create money
is so simple that the mind is repelled."
JCT: The same process by which LETS can casino banks create
chips is so simple that the mind is repelled not. Har har
har har. To someone who does not see the true system, it
repels, to someone who sees, it does repel.
JW: Money: Whence it came, where it went - 1975, p29 Senator
Carter Glass, Author of the Banking Act of 1933 "Is there
any reason why the American people should be taxed to
guarantee the debts of banks, any more than they should be
taxed to guarantee the debts of other institutions,
including merchants, the industries, and the mills of the
JCT: Because banksters rule and have bought up the
politicians, that's why the people are taxed to guarantee
the debts of banks.
JW: Chief Justice Salmon Chase, formerly Secretary of
Treasury in President Lincoln's administration, in dissent
of Knox vs. Lee (The Legal Tender Cases, 1871) "The legal
tender quality [of money] is only valuable for the purposes
Dr. Alan Greenspan, Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board of
Governors, 11/20/2003 "As long as we issue fiat currency, I
see no alternative to a legal tender law."
JCT: Another who thinks currency I can pay tax with is of
"fiat" value, whatever they mean by that. The use of the
word "fiat" exposes a certain misdiagnosis much like someone
admitting they think people living beyond their means is
possible. Accepting something impossible, living beyond our
means, in their original hypothesis validates the old adage:
Garbage in, garbage out.
JW: John Adams "All the perplexities, confusion and distress
in America arise, not from defects in their Constitution or
Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as
from the downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit
JCT: Of course, it's not ignorance when the literature on
the subject is false, merely validating a pretext.
JW: Friedrich A. Hayek (1899-1992) Austrian Economist,
Author and 1974 Nobel Prize-Winner for Economics: "With the
exception only of the period of the gold standard,
practically all governments of history have used their
exclusive power to issue money to defraud and plunder the
JCT: He's ignorant of King Henry I who did not issue his
interest-free Tallies to plunder his people but did help
them with interest-free socialble credits. He's ignorant of
Republican Rome's Aes Grave interest-free copper money,
Iroquois wampum, Lincoln Greenbacks, Colonial Scrip. I guess
Hayek missed the class on social currencies before they made
him a professor.
JW: Dr. Edwin Vieira, FAME Foundation Scholar "You can fool
some of the people all of the time, and all of the people
some of the time, and that's good enough."
JCT: When you have all the gold, who cares whether they are
fooled or not. They swindle us today with many of us aware
of how they are doing it but there's not too much we can
do in a democracy of hypnotized voters. Yet.
For the final quote, I'll submit the first political poem of
John "The Engineer" Turmel, "Atlas shrugged not" with the
duty of Spartacus to lead the revolution against invisible
debt chains Babylon rather than the visible iron chains or
Why represent our wealth with their chips for a fee,
When we can represent our wealth with our chips for free?"