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Electron Orbits in Hydrogen atom
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PD
science forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 4363

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Electron Orbits in Hydrogen atom Reply with quote

GSS wrote:
Quote:
Current state of Quantum Mechanics does not help us visualize the
instant to instant orbital motion of the electron in Hydrogen atom.
Generally it is asserted that HUP does not permit us to do so. I have
developed a model for instant to instant computation of electron motion
in Hydrogen orbitals under Coulomb forces. I have not accounted for
electron spin interaction in this model. Kindly examine the details at
the following reference. This is essentially to assert the point that
we must strive to acquire enough information about a physical process
or phenomenon that should enable us to mentally visualize that
phenomenon.


Cart before the horse.

There are those that find it frustrating that a mathematical model that
is highly successful in predicting experimental measurements sometimes
results in difficulty visualizing what is going on in the mathematical
model. It is especially frustrating when there is no obvious connection
between the mathematical model and what is seen in the familiar,
macroscopic, everyday world. There are those that believe firmly that
the conceptual pictures that apply in the familiar, macroscopic,
everyday world *should* apply at all scales and in all circumstances by
invoking some magical "consistency" criterion.

The common reaction to this frustration is to try to impose a familiar
visualization anyway, and to try to come from the other direction to
stitch things together. Usually what happens as a result is that the
mathematical model that springs from that familiar visualization fails
spectacularly in predicting experimental behavior.

The response to this failure is various.

Some folks say, "Well, I've done the important part in establishing the
visual concept. I'll leave it to others to mop up and make it all
mathematically consistent with experiment. After all, you can fit
anything with mathematics, so it can't be too hard to make it all work
out, even if I can't do it."

Some folks say, "The mathematical model is irrelevant. Mathematical
models tell you nothing. Generating quantitative predictions from a
visual concept to check against experiment isn't really necessary
anyway. That's just the scientific secret society trying to throw up
red herrings and ridiculous requirements to prevent original ideas from
being considered."

Some folks say, "I have yet to do the math, but surely we can evaluate
the truth of this visualization without needing to look at the math.
You don't really need to compare against experiment to judge the truth
of a theory. All you need to really do is to look at the naturalness of
the visualization and the logical arguments of the model."

All of these responses reveal either a fundamental misunderstanding of
what science is, or a deeply held emotional commitment to their own
prejudice that forces them to deny to themselves what science is.

PD
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Phineas T Puddleduck
science forum Guru


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 759

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Electron Orbits in Hydrogen atom Reply with quote

In article <1150908817.867430.313580@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>, PD
<TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
GSS wrote:
Current state of Quantum Mechanics does not help us visualize the
instant to instant orbital motion of the electron in Hydrogen atom.
Generally it is asserted that HUP does not permit us to do so. I have
developed a model for instant to instant computation of electron motion
in Hydrogen orbitals under Coulomb forces. I have not accounted for
electron spin interaction in this model. Kindly examine the details at
the following reference. This is essentially to assert the point that
we must strive to acquire enough information about a physical process
or phenomenon that should enable us to mentally visualize that
phenomenon.


Cart before the horse.

PD


PD

Check his post history on Google. In his arguments against relativity
with me, he all but admits he does not even know what proper time and
proper distance are:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/sci.physics.relativity/msg/e99671de2523
1852?hl=en&

--
The greatest enemy of science is pseudoscience.

Jaffa cakes. Sweet delicious orangey jaffa goodness, and an abject lesson why
parroting information from the web will not teach you cosmology.

Official emperor of sci.physics. Please pay no attention to my butt poking
forward, it is expanding.

Relf's Law?
"Bullshit repeated to the limit of infinity asymptotically approaches
the odour of roses."
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Ron Baker, Pluralitas!
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Electron Orbits in Hydrogen atom Reply with quote

"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150908817.867430.313580@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

GSS wrote:
Current state of Quantum Mechanics does not help us visualize the
instant to instant orbital motion of the electron in Hydrogen atom.
Generally it is asserted that HUP does not permit us to do so. I have
developed a model for instant to instant computation of electron motion
in Hydrogen orbitals under Coulomb forces. I have not accounted for
electron spin interaction in this model. Kindly examine the details at
the following reference. This is essentially to assert the point that
we must strive to acquire enough information about a physical process
or phenomenon that should enable us to mentally visualize that
phenomenon.


Cart before the horse.

There are those that find it frustrating that a mathematical model that
is highly successful in predicting experimental measurements sometimes
results in difficulty visualizing what is going on in the mathematical
model. It is especially frustrating when there is no obvious connection
between the mathematical model and what is seen in the familiar,
macroscopic, everyday world. There are those that believe firmly that
the conceptual pictures that apply in the familiar, macroscopic,
everyday world *should* apply at all scales and in all circumstances by
invoking some magical "consistency" criterion.

The common reaction to this frustration is to try to impose a familiar
visualization anyway, and to try to come from the other direction to
stitch things together. Usually what happens as a result is that the
mathematical model that springs from that familiar visualization fails
spectacularly in predicting experimental behavior.

The response to this failure is various.

Some folks say, "Well, I've done the important part in establishing the
visual concept. I'll leave it to others to mop up and make it all
mathematically consistent with experiment. After all, you can fit
anything with mathematics, so it can't be too hard to make it all work
out, even if I can't do it."

Some folks say, "The mathematical model is irrelevant. Mathematical
models tell you nothing. Generating quantitative predictions from a
visual concept to check against experiment isn't really necessary
anyway. That's just the scientific secret society trying to throw up
red herrings and ridiculous requirements to prevent original ideas from
being considered."

Some folks say, "I have yet to do the math, but surely we can evaluate
the truth of this visualization without needing to look at the math.
You don't really need to compare against experiment to judge the truth
of a theory. All you need to really do is to look at the naturalness of
the visualization and the logical arguments of the model."

All of these responses reveal either a fundamental misunderstanding of
what science is, or a deeply held emotional commitment to their own
prejudice that forces them to deny to themselves what science is.

PD

That is a pretty good description of the whole situation.

--
rb
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dda1
science forum Guru


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 762

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Electron Orbits in Hydrogen atom Reply with quote

Y.Porat wrote:

Quote:
(what is your day job ???)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ass kicker

Yasser, you crapped your pants again, you need to wear pampers.
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GSS
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Electron Orbits in Hydrogen atom Reply with quote

puppet_sock@hotmail.com wrote:
Quote:
GSS wrote:
[snip]
I have
developed a model for instant to instant computation of electron motion
in Hydrogen orbitals under Coulomb forces.
[snap]

I will appreciate if you have any specific comment on the detailed
model.

Quote:
You have very serious errors of logic before you even get to the model.
You have rejected quantum mechanics, yet you are using various of
the results of QM and not giving any support for them. The technical
term for this logic error is "stolen concept."

Instead of approaching this subject with bias and ignorance, of which
you have ample, you *could* start by doing some reading. There are
many books that describe the experiments that encouraged the
development of QM. You *could* read a few. Or even one.

I have only rejected Relativity, not quantum mechanics.
In my opinion QM has a great potential but as it stands today, it can
only be considered as 'incomplete'. Those people who consider the
current status of QM as perfect and are of the opinion that no
improvement is possible are doing a great dis-service to science.

In this regard kindly refer to my article on the potential energy term
in Schrodinger's wave equation.
http://www.geocities.com/gurcharn_sandhu/pdf_art/qm_error.pdf

GSS
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dda1
science forum Guru


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 762

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Electron Orbits in Hydrogen atom Reply with quote

Arrogant Airhead Gurcharn Sandhu wrote:
<snipped, the standard imbecilic fare>

Listen , despicable piece of s**t, you are not qulified to comment.
f*** off!
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Google

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