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Automation Irony
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minnesotti
science forum beginner


Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:05 pm    Post subject: Automation Irony Reply with quote

When designers of engineering systems discovered the propensity of
human operator error, they often attempted to remove the need for human
input. Removing human operators lead to the effect, a so-called
Automation Irony. The designers normally automated the easy tasks, but
left the complex, unfamiliar tasks for humans. The problem is that all
the learning environmnet is gone. The building of mental models is no
more. The human operators must conduct difficult tasks intermittently
on unfamiliar systems -- a sure recipe for failure.

A resume e.g. at
http://db.usenix.org/events/fast02/patterson/tsld023.htm .

This is the explanation of the mechanism by which the S&E careers will
fail in the US. Everything is automated. The routine jobs are easy to
do; in fact doing them is not required any mental competence -- any
high school graduate can do the modern jobs of engineers. But sometimes
there is a need for completion of complex untrivial tasks... however,
there have been no learning environment... nobody learnt how to do
complex tasks, or any tasks at all. There will always be smart young
people, however they will have no tasks the completuon of which would
teach them the skills, and no supervisors who can show how to do the
complex stuff.

I would not even blame outsourcing for the loss of S&E careers in the
US. Their contribution is not significant. The US corporations cannot
outsource complex engineering projects to India or China, because those
countries do not have infrastructure to do the complex projects (they
have no facilites, and there is no sutainable workforce). Life became
too easy in the modern West. The western civililisation will virtually
drown in its own s**t.

\/
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BMJ
science forum beginner


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Automation Irony Reply with quote

minnesotti wrote:
Quote:
When designers of engineering systems discovered the propensity of
human operator error, they often attempted to remove the need for human
input. Removing human operators lead to the effect, a so-called
Automation Irony. The designers normally automated the easy tasks, but
left the complex, unfamiliar tasks for humans. The problem is that all
the learning environmnet is gone. The building of mental models is no
more. The human operators must conduct difficult tasks intermittently
on unfamiliar systems -- a sure recipe for failure.

A resume e.g. at
http://db.usenix.org/events/fast02/patterson/tsld023.htm .

This is the explanation of the mechanism by which the S&E careers will
fail in the US. Everything is automated. The routine jobs are easy to
do; in fact doing them is not required any mental competence -- any
high school graduate can do the modern jobs of engineers.

I've seen that during the years since I got my B. Sc. in mechanical
engineering. One example is drafting/CAD. When I was an undergrad,
preparing drawings using computers was a rarity. Within ten years,
programs like AutoCAD were available for desktop computers, but
expensive. A decade after later, they were commonplace.

When I started teaching, my students learned both. The reasoning back
then was that by knowing how drawings were made using conventional
methods and instruments, they understood how to do them using a
computer. By the time I quit, the emphasis had shifted to sketching,
followed by software. Now, rather than preparing conventional
orthographic and, in some cases, isometric projection drawings using
software, the focus is on 3-D solid modelling.

I'm not convinced, however, that the students nowadays are better at
preparing drawings than I was over thirty years ago. When I learned
drafting, I was required to visualize what I was to portray and think
through the process. I never saw that while I taught CAD but, then,
many of my students had little aptitude for drafting to begin with.

When I was completing my second master's degree, I took a course in
advanced digital design. We were given a course project and we had to
design and build a circuit to implement what was supposed to be done. I
learned a lot about how to lay out components relative to each other in
order to minimize wiring, as well as what's involved in troubleshooting
a board. (My lab partner and I once spent several hours chasing a bug
when all it turned out to be was a misconnected pin.)

Several years later, I was a TA for that same course. The students no
longer had to build anything but designed the circuit using VHDL. The
circuit was tested by downloading the software onto a board which had, I
believe, a programmable logic device on it. No laying out of
components, no cutting and stripping of wires, and no checking of
connections.

In short, the overall educational value had been severely diluted and
diminished.

But sometimes
Quote:
there is a need for completion of complex untrivial tasks... however,
there have been no learning environment... nobody learnt how to do
complex tasks, or any tasks at all. There will always be smart young
people, however they will have no tasks the completuon of which would
teach them the skills, and no supervisors who can show how to do the
complex stuff.

There's one thing I wish that would be taught in engineering schools.
Students would benefit enormously by doing case studies, both of
failures and successful designs. They would have to go through the
entire process to determine what was done, what calculations were made,
and, finally, what worked and what didn't.

But that would require a major shift in how engineering is taught. For
one thing, universities would have to start hiring profs with actual
field experience once again, something that was quite common even a
generation ago. Also, it would mean having to reduce the number of
"fun" design projects which emphasize teamwork more than actually
producing something that works. In my experience, most new designs are
based on older ones, usually ones which worked, but their successful
adaptation would require a knowledge of why those older designs worked.

Quote:

I would not even blame outsourcing for the loss of S&E careers in the
US. Their contribution is not significant. The US corporations cannot
outsource complex engineering projects to India or China, because those
countries do not have infrastructure to do the complex projects (they
have no facilites, and there is no sutainable workforce). Life became
too easy in the modern West. The western civililisation will virtually
drown in its own s**t.

\/
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Herman Family
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Automation Irony Reply with quote

"minnesotti" <minnesotti@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1151244311.248498.62430@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
When designers of engineering systems discovered the propensity of
human operator error, they often attempted to remove the need for human
input. Removing human operators lead to the effect, a so-called
Automation Irony. The designers normally automated the easy tasks, but
left the complex, unfamiliar tasks for humans. The problem is that all
the learning environmnet is gone. The building of mental models is no
more. The human operators must conduct difficult tasks intermittently
on unfamiliar systems -- a sure recipe for failure.


I've also seen this in the field. Humans are required by nature to have a
constant meaningful stimulus. We tried to take the easy tasks away and
leave the harder ones for the operator, and also to retrain the operators to
work at higher levels in the process. Instead of poking switches to open
valves at the right time, they could concentrate on scheduling the right
production and taking care of overall quality issues. What we ended up with
was a few operators who were able to run the entire plant, and a few others
who needed to be poked in the ribs when the foreman came around. COV
improved by a factor of 3 to 6. Given the process improvement it was worth
it. There was talk of eliminating an operator, but they decided to keep a
"hot spare" trainee around instead on the (now) easy board.

Unfortunately, when things go wrong, the operators trained under the new
system had too little experience to recognize and react to unusual
situations. The old operators were so used to what is now an unusual
situation that they responed automatically. When you go from having one
alarm per second to one scheduled alert every 20 minutes, alert is not an
option.

Michael
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Old Pif
science forum beginner


Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Automation Irony Reply with quote

minnesotti wrote:
Quote:

There will always be smart young
people, however they will have no tasks the completion of which would
teach them the skills, and no supervisors who can show how to do the
complex stuff.


That also explains the avalanche-like degradation of American
managerial cohort. In today newspaper there is a report about
"leadership boot camp" for 16-18 pant-pissers. Having this line in
their resumes and bypassing all kind of apprenticeship, practical work
and being indoctrinated by the mad managerial theorists they will
occupy leadership positions without any practical skills required for
the job. In very short time they realise their own impotence and turn
to the outsourcing as the only alternative to complete even simplest
task. Statistics indicates to the strong correlation between the
outsourcing wave and mushrooming of MBA programs.

Quote:
I would not even blame outsourcing for the loss of S&E careers in the
US. Their contribution is not significant. The US corporations cannot
outsource complex engineering projects to India or China, because those
countries do not have infrastructure to do the complex projects (they
have no facilities, and there is no sustainable workforce). Life became
too easy in the modern West. The western civilization will virtually
drown in its own s**t.

\/
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Jerry Avins
science forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 534

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Automation Irony Reply with quote

Old Pif wrote:
Quote:
minnesotti wrote:
There will always be smart young
people, however they will have no tasks the completion of which would
teach them the skills, and no supervisors who can show how to do the
complex stuff.


That also explains the avalanche-like degradation of American
managerial cohort. In today newspaper there is a report about
"leadership boot camp" for 16-18 pant-pissers. Having this line in
their resumes and bypassing all kind of apprenticeship, practical work
and being indoctrinated by the mad managerial theorists they will
occupy leadership positions without any practical skills required for
the job. In very short time they realise their own impotence and turn
to the outsourcing as the only alternative to complete even simplest
task. Statistics indicates to the strong correlation between the
outsourcing wave and mushrooming of MBA programs.

I don't doubt the correlation, but the link between cause and effect may
be longer than you imply. There is also a strong month-by-month
correlation between the consumption of ice cream and the number of
deaths by drowning.

...

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
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BMJ
science forum beginner


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Automation Irony Reply with quote

Old Pif wrote:
Quote:
minnesotti wrote:

There will always be smart young

people, however they will have no tasks the completion of which would
teach them the skills, and no supervisors who can show how to do the
complex stuff.



That also explains the avalanche-like degradation of American
managerial cohort. In today newspaper there is a report about
"leadership boot camp" for 16-18 pant-pissers. Having this line in
their resumes and bypassing all kind of apprenticeship, practical work
and being indoctrinated by the mad managerial theorists they will
occupy leadership positions without any practical skills required for
the job. In very short time they realise their own impotence and turn
to the outsourcing as the only alternative to complete even simplest
task. Statistics indicates to the strong correlation between the
outsourcing wave and mushrooming of MBA programs.

Most of them are incapable of making a decision, let alone taking
responsibility for it.

<snip>
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Phil Scott
science forum beginner


Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Automation Irony Reply with quote

"minnesotti" <minnesotti@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1151244311.248498.62430@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
When designers of engineering systems discovered the
propensity of
human operator error, they often attempted to remove the
need for human
input. Removing human operators lead to the effect, a
so-called
Automation Irony. The designers normally automated the easy
tasks, but
left the complex, unfamiliar tasks for humans. The problem
is that all
the learning environmnet is gone. The building of mental
models is no
more. The human operators must conduct difficult tasks
intermittently
on unfamiliar systems -- a sure recipe for failure.

very interesting...that is how the brain works.

It will take a generation or two to get past that, meantime we
in the US will be eating a lot of rice and beans,... then just
rice.


Quote:

A resume e.g. at
http://db.usenix.org/events/fast02/patterson/tsld023.htm .

This is the explanation of the mechanism by which the S&E
careers will
fail in the US. Everything is automated. The routine jobs
are easy to
do; in fact doing them is not required any mental
competence -- any
high school graduate can do the modern jobs of engineers.
But sometimes
there is a need for completion of complex untrivial tasks...
however,
there have been no learning environment... nobody learnt how
to do
complex tasks, or any tasks at all. There will always be
smart young
people, however they will have no tasks the completuon of
which would
teach them the skills, and no supervisors who can show how
to do the
complex stuff.

I would not even blame outsourcing for the loss of S&E
careers in the
US. Their contribution is not significant.


it is very very significant...although you do raise a very
good point on the loss of base level experience...Ive seen
that starting to happen even 15 years ago... many other
engineers knew how to look things up in a catalog and specifie
to fit,,but not how to strategize or optimize a system... they
could find something that would fit,,, that was it. A
boiler maybe,... when there were many other more viable
options without a boiler.... that would have made the system
much more viable for the client.





The US corporations cannot
Quote:
outsource complex engineering projects to India or China,
because those
countries do not have infrastructure to do the complex
projects (they
have no facilites, and there is no sutainable workforce).
Life became
too easy in the modern West. The western civililisation will
virtually
drown in its own s**t.

That is the historical pattern. I had lunch the other
day with a chinese american babe about 25, IQ must have been
200 across the boards... one brilliant person on any issue you
raised, she was impeccable though in discussing a few physics
issues, I asked about that... she reluctantly said she had 4
years in physics at UC Berkely but was not a physics major.

(the drop out rate for male math wiz nerds in physics is at
least 90%... in my my earlier years I met a young woman,
killer babe type also, who made it in physics...Polly, she
was working the night shift at a bar, auditing her physics
classes at UC Davis, I asked her why and she said she was
taking care of her invalid father...so had to audit the
classes and work nights... I asked her a few physics related
questions...she knew the answers in spades).





This chinese babe begged to differ with me on my remarks
similar to your own, she is on a more optimistic agenda,
saying that the human species is changing so fast, with
increased scientific capabilities that it is not actually the
same species as the previous generations, especially now, so
that the life cycle of nations issue I have been discussing is
irrelevant... I had tp agree with much of her premise, I would
like to think I am wrong with mine.

We ended that aspect of our discussion in a partial stand off.
I met her a few months earlier at a lyndon Louroche PAC table
set up outside of a starbucks in San Rafael... the man is not
nutz as I had assumed from all the bad PR on him... he has an
agenda now to push economic reform on the US via legislation
...for instance stopping the american car manufactures
scheduled shut down of 75 million square feet of auto
manufacturing in the US over the next two years... I havent
read the proposal yet.. in talking to her it is apparent that
it will be more than slightly workable... they have a lot of
big names signed onto the proposal, especially in the rust
belt but interestingly no one in the senate willing to sponsor
it.

thats interesting. This is a competent organization, I think
they will get most of their proposales onto the senate floor,
especially as the US economy goes south.



If we offshore the S and E, we loose the training ground for
the brain trust development crucial to the nations
survival...that was also discussed extensively. She asked
if I would help her set up tours for high school and college
students in manufacturing plants..she says these dont even
know what a machine tool is... when you tell them that our
industry is mothballing that stuff or sending it to china they
think you mean a 20 dollar hand drill or something... they
have no clue...not even the senators in many cases... they
dont know ...so they vote to allow it.





Phil Scott




Quote:

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Phil Scott
science forum beginner


Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Automation Irony Reply with quote

"BMJ" <parametric_equation@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:mCxng.94215$Mn5.10993@pd7tw3no...
Quote:
minnesotti wrote:
When designers of engineering systems discovered the
propensity of
human operator error, they often attempted to remove the
need for human
input. Removing human operators lead to the effect, a
so-called
Automation Irony. The designers normally automated the easy
tasks, but
left the complex, unfamiliar tasks for humans. The problem
is that all
the learning environmnet is gone. The building of mental
models is no
more. The human operators must conduct difficult tasks
intermittently
on unfamiliar systems -- a sure recipe for failure.

A resume e.g. at
http://db.usenix.org/events/fast02/patterson/tsld023.htm .

This is the explanation of the mechanism by which the S&E
careers will
fail in the US. Everything is automated. The routine jobs
are easy to
do; in fact doing them is not required any mental
competence -- any
high school graduate can do the modern jobs of engineers.

I've seen that during the years since I got my B. Sc. in
mechanical engineering. One example is drafting/CAD. When
I was an undergrad, preparing drawings using computers was a
rarity. Within ten years, programs like AutoCAD were
available for desktop computers, but expensive. A decade
after later, they were commonplace.

When I started teaching, my students learned both. The
reasoning back then was that by knowing how drawings were
made using conventional methods and instruments, they
understood how to do them using a computer. By the time I
quit, the emphasis had shifted to sketching, followed by
software. Now, rather than preparing conventional
orthographic and, in some cases, isometric projection
drawings using software, the focus is on 3-D solid
modelling.

I'm not convinced, however, that the students nowadays are
better at preparing drawings than I was over thirty years
ago. When I learned drafting, I was required to visualize
what I was to portray and think through the process. I
never saw that while I taught CAD but, then, many of my
students had little aptitude for drafting to begin with.

When I was completing my second master's degree, I took a
course in advanced digital design. We were given a course
project and we had to design and build a circuit to
implement what was supposed to be done. I learned a lot
about how to lay out components relative to each other in
order to minimize wiring, as well as what's involved in
troubleshooting a board. (My lab partner and I once spent
several hours chasing a bug when all it turned out to be was
a misconnected pin.)

Several years later, I was a TA for that same course. The
students no longer had to build anything but designed the
circuit using VHDL. The circuit was tested by downloading
the software onto a board which had, I believe, a
programmable logic device on it. No laying out of
components, no cutting and stripping of wires, and no
checking of connections.

In short, the overall educational value had been severely
diluted and diminished.

But sometimes
there is a need for completion of complex untrivial
tasks... however,
there have been no learning environment... nobody learnt
how to do
complex tasks, or any tasks at all. There will always be
smart young
people, however they will have no tasks the completuon of
which would
teach them the skills, and no supervisors who can show how
to do the
complex stuff.

There's one thing I wish that would be taught in engineering
schools. Students would benefit enormously by doing case
studies, both of failures and successful designs. They
would have to go through the entire process to determine
what was done, what calculations were made, and, finally,
what worked and what didn't.


That of course is a world class idea..its what I did on my
own, it produced the insights I used to get to top levels with
my light weight degree.

I did one other thing, even as I was driving cross country on
a freeway, I would see something on a building and sort out
what it was, why it would be employed and how it
worked...then, and most importantly I would see how many ways
I could think of improving the function, or using the same
notion in some other industry for some other purpose..

that...was valuable. So my resume says ' cross platform
innovation ..etc'... no one has a clooo what that means...
they want to know about the 2 day GAP (gasp) in my resume... I
tell them I go bass fishing between projects and hope for
weeks, but only got days most of the time ... these assume I
must be lying,, so they can call that police dept and see if
I was arrested.... the mind boggles.

Sometimes I tell em about the gun fights in my previous
life... and the flat tracking... they dont understand any of
that.. they dont even know what the problems are with carrying
an automatic.

amazing.... these don't have any balls either.


Quote:
But that would require a major shift in how engineering is
taught. For one thing, universities would have to start
hiring profs with actual field experience once again,

YES...



something that was quite common even a
Quote:
generation ago. Also, it would mean having to reduce the
number of "fun" design projects which emphasize teamwork
more than actually producing something that works. In my
experience, most new designs are based on older ones,
usually ones which worked, but their successful adaptation
would require a knowledge of why those older designs worked.

thats it alright.


Phil Scott
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Phil Scott
science forum beginner


Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Automation Irony Reply with quote

"Old Pif" <OldPif@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1151252738.243962.47600@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

minnesotti wrote:

There will always be smart young
people, however they will have no tasks the completion of
which would
teach them the skills, and no supervisors who can show how
to do the
complex stuff.


That also explains the avalanche-like degradation of
American
managerial cohort. In today newspaper there is a report
about
"leadership boot camp" for 16-18 pant-pissers. Having this
line in
their resumes and bypassing all kind of apprenticeship,
practical work
and being indoctrinated by the mad managerial theorists they
will
occupy leadership positions without any practical skills
required for
the job. In very short time they realise their own impotence
and turn
to the outsourcing as the only alternative to complete even
simplest
task. Statistics indicates to the strong correlation between
the
outsourcing wave and mushrooming of MBA programs.


amazing... I suspected as much, but not that clearly defined.


Quote:

I would not even blame outsourcing for the loss of S&E
careers in the
US. Their contribution is not significant. The US
corporations cannot
outsource complex engineering projects to India or China,
because those
countries do not have infrastructure to do the complex
projects (they
have no facilities, and there is no sustainable workforce).
Life became
too easy in the modern West.


Quote:
The western civilization will virtually
drown in its own s**t.

Thats what India, China, Egypt, and middle east did after
their peaks several hundred/ or thousand years ago...

china and india are set for their next 'peaks' (tempered by
over population and a deteriorating environment)... as the USA
heads to its end cycyle...to rise again in 75 to 150 years..

.. unless the babe from the LaRouche PAC was right...'we are
evolving so fast as to be a different species and will not see
that end cycle'.... she won't...her IQ was no doubt in the 200
range...(fine legs too) .. the middle class wont be that
fortunate imho.


Phil Scott



Quote:

\/
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Phil Scott
science forum beginner


Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Automation Irony Reply with quote

"BMJ" <parametric_equation@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:RoAng.95233$Mn5.77476@pd7tw3no...
Quote:
Old Pif wrote:
minnesotti wrote:

There will always be smart young

people, however they will have no tasks the completion of
which would
teach them the skills, and no supervisors who can show how
to do the
complex stuff.



That also explains the avalanche-like degradation of
American
managerial cohort. In today newspaper there is a report
about
"leadership boot camp" for 16-18 pant-pissers. Having this
line in
their resumes and bypassing all kind of apprenticeship,
practical work
and being indoctrinated by the mad managerial theorists
they will
occupy leadership positions without any practical skills
required for
the job. In very short time they realise their own
impotence and turn
to the outsourcing as the only alternative to complete even
simplest
task. Statistics indicates to the strong correlation
between the
outsourcing wave and mushrooming of MBA programs.



Quote:
Most of them are incapable of making a decision, let alone
taking responsibility for it.


when you plot that curve when do you see it hitting the wall?

...., or do you think it has already hit the wall, and that the
deaf and blind contingent are simply unaware of it?

The nation is still 'functioning' however...

..... with 75 million square feet of auto mfg space going bye.
bye over the next 2 years.. along with the machine tooling
that can be adapted to make almost anything.... it seems that
might be a valid marker for the full impact...expecially as
many other US industries are on the same track.




Phil Scott


Quote:

snip
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Gregg
science forum beginner


Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Automation Irony Reply with quote

<snip>
Quote:
That also explains the avalanche-like degradation of American
managerial cohort. In today newspaper there is a report about
"leadership boot camp" for 16-18 pant-pissers. Having this line in
their resumes and bypassing all kind of apprenticeship, practical work
and being indoctrinated by the mad managerial theorists they will
occupy leadership positions without any practical skills required for
the job. In very short time they realise their own impotence and turn
to the outsourcing as the only alternative to complete even simplest
task. Statistics indicates to the strong correlation between the
outsourcing wave and mushrooming of MBA programs.

snip

When the Japanese auto makers were starting to ruin the US auto industry
with competition..
Deming (architect of the Japanese quality systems) was asked what was
the most important single thing the US could do to regain their
competitiveness in the auto industry...........

Deming replied - Open a Harvard Business school in Japan.

Gregg
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Phil Scott
science forum beginner


Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Automation Irony Reply with quote

"Gregg" <nospam123gcrume@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:aeCng.4350$Oh1.4157@news01.roc.ny...
Quote:
snip
That also explains the avalanche-like degradation of
American
managerial cohort. In today newspaper there is a report
about
"leadership boot camp" for 16-18 pant-pissers. Having this
line in
their resumes and bypassing all kind of apprenticeship,
practical work
and being indoctrinated by the mad managerial theorists
they will
occupy leadership positions without any practical skills
required for
the job. In very short time they realise their own
impotence and turn
to the outsourcing as the only alternative to complete even
simplest
task. Statistics indicates to the strong correlation
between the
outsourcing wave and mushrooming of MBA programs.

snip
When the Japanese auto makers were starting to ruin the US
auto industry with competition..
Deming (architect of the Japanese quality systems) was asked
what was the most important single thing the US could do to
regain their competitiveness in the auto industry...........



Quote:
Deming replied - Open a Harvard Business school in Japan.

that was choice... a few cuts above his giving the sound
advice they refused, then trashed him for... for the previous
40 years. ts good to see that he went out hosing them.

Phil Scott


Quote:

Gregg
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Old Pif
science forum beginner


Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Automation Irony Reply with quote

Phil Scott wrote:
Quote:

If we offshore the S and E, we loose the training ground for
the brain trust development crucial to the nations
survival...


This is exactly right. As the educated part of mankind has realized
that it badly needs physical exercises even though the work is mostly
office the same way management requires hands on training. Otherwise
they never get how things are actually done. Big disappointment for
those who believe that technical work is below their IQ level.
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Phil Scott
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Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:15 am    Post subject: Re: Automation Irony Reply with quote

--
Phil Scott
Ideas are bullet proof.
"Old Pif" <OldPif@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1151270127.725705.288140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

Phil Scott wrote:

If we offshore the S and E, we loose the training ground
for
the brain trust development crucial to the nations
survival...


This is exactly right. As the educated part of mankind has
realized
that it badly needs physical exercises even though the work
is mostly
office the same way management requires hands on training.
Otherwise
they never get how things are actually done. Big
disappointment for
those who believe that technical work is below their IQ
level.


I discovered personally, after semi retiring from the
consulting busines that lack of regular hands on work actually
allows key parts of the brain to ablate away, decreasing IQ
and capability in all areas especially what had been
considered purely intellectual areas..that was in 1993....
recovery is still in progress but getting well onto the plus
side of the score card now.


Science mag published the first leaks of research on that in
1995... now its commonly understood.

What is not understood yet is that the body is also severely
affected by not doing hands on work..it devasates ones health,
brain function is distributed throught the body..(at the nerve
centers called ganglia)..... that ablates away with disuse.
(the dendron arm linkages, synapses, ablate away)... thats how
actual stooges are created in corporate america...once created
those cannot simply decide to change...the wiring is in
place...the damage is done.


I recovered to a large degree by accident, not entirely
though..and its taken 20 years in total..and it was not easy.
and a lot of luck was involved.


.... today, with recent progress, women eyeball me again, I
haul ass on my motorcycle with verve no less...and my skin has
cleared up of all the bloat and age related apertinences one
sees in a majority of people my age... all that was brain
structure related...


there were many other aspects.... Ive posted a series on
anyone can find by searching google news groups with only my
name as author, and 'amyloid' in the subject line.


In corporate america people lie or are forced to lie, these
then must rationalize the lies of course.... to remain
'sane'... that rationalization miswires these neuron
synapses...

that corruption of the brain and distributed brain throughout
the body ruins these people entirely in every single aspect
imaginable ...everything, their health and even their
familys health... it kills all charisma, it turns their kids
into zombies... even the dog is affected... their gold fish
gets fungus....it ruins them and everything about them...and
it ruins the companies they operate in.


Thats why I don't oppose them... these are taking themselves
out as we speak...in the most horrific fashion too... its pure
hell for many of these actually.

Myself, and for most people that are not corrupt...its not so
bad...





Phil Scott


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