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Suitable instrument to protect overfilling Ammonium Nitrate solution road tanker
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Raj Sreenevasan
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:07 pm    Post subject: Suitable instrument to protect overfilling Ammonium Nitrate solution road tanker Reply with quote

Hi learned guys,
I do not like to re-invent the wheel and hence would appreciate if someone
can point me in the right direction:

A road tanker (B Double or it could be an Isotainer) is being filled with
hot Ammonium Nitrate solution (Temp: 130 to 135 deg C, has to be less than
140 deg C to comply with ADG code). We wish to install a suitable
instrument (preferably non-contact type and attached to the filling arm)
that will detect and close the filling valve if the level in the road tanker
rises above safe fill level.

Is there any other alternative solution available to prevent overfill and
subsequent cleaning up of AN solution spills? One technology that comes to
my mind is having a weigh bridge under the loading station so that the road
tanker can be Tared and filled at the same location.

Kindly be aware that AN solution will start to solidify almost immediately
if the temperature is decreased (less than tanker fill temperature). Thanks
in advance for all suggestions and pointers.
Regards,
Raj Sreenevasan
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nospam11
science forum beginner


Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Suitable instrument to protect overfilling Ammonium Nitrate solution road tanker Reply with quote

"Raj Sreenevasan" <Raj_Sreenevasan@bigpond.com> wrote:

Quote:
Is there any other alternative solution available to prevent overfill and
subsequent cleaning up of AN solution spills? One technology that comes to
my mind is having a weigh bridge under the loading station so that the road
tanker can be Tared and filled at the same location.

Unless you need to weigh what you are filling that sounds expensive
complicated and prone to operator error.

If the filling nozzle enters the tank then add another small bore pipe and
pump some air down it. Detect the increasing back pressure as that pipe
becomes submerged (or nearly so).

The most likely problem is the pipe getting bunged up with product, but, at
least it is a safe failure.

--
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Cameron Dorrough
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Suitable instrument to protect overfilling Ammonium Nitrate solution road tanker Reply with quote

"Raj Sreenevasan" <Raj_Sreenevasan@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:rDuqg.21157$ap3.14319@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Quote:
Hi learned guys,
I do not like to re-invent the wheel and hence would appreciate if someone
can point me in the right direction:

A road tanker (B Double or it could be an Isotainer) is being filled with
hot Ammonium Nitrate solution (Temp: 130 to 135 deg C, has to be less than
140 deg C to comply with ADG code). We wish to install a suitable
instrument (preferably non-contact type and attached to the filling arm)
that will detect and close the filling valve if the level in the road
tanker
rises above safe fill level.

Is there any other alternative solution available to prevent overfill and
subsequent cleaning up of AN solution spills? One technology that comes
to
my mind is having a weigh bridge under the loading station so that the
road
tanker can be Tared and filled at the same location.

Kindly be aware that AN solution will start to solidify almost immediately
if the temperature is decreased (less than tanker fill temperature).
Thanks
in advance for all suggestions and pointers.
Regards,
Raj Sreenevasan

Raj, I know there are small radar gauges around that will do this (maybe
talk to Emerson?) but how about using a high-tempreature version of Liquip's
optical high level probe that is currently used in fuel tankers all over the
country?

I can't remember where you moved to now, but have a chat to one of the tech
guys at Liquip: http://www.liquip.com/locations_australia.html They should
be able to point you in the right direction.

I hope this helps.

Cameron:-)
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Herman Family
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:49 am    Post subject: Re: Suitable instrument to protect overfilling Ammonium Nitrate solution road tanker Reply with quote

"Raj Sreenevasan" <Raj_Sreenevasan@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:rDuqg.21157$ap3.14319@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Quote:
Hi learned guys,
I do not like to re-invent the wheel and hence would appreciate if someone
can point me in the right direction:

A road tanker (B Double or it could be an Isotainer) is being filled with
hot Ammonium Nitrate solution (Temp: 130 to 135 deg C, has to be less than
140 deg C to comply with ADG code). We wish to install a suitable
instrument (preferably non-contact type and attached to the filling arm)
that will detect and close the filling valve if the level in the road
tanker
rises above safe fill level.

Is there any other alternative solution available to prevent overfill and
subsequent cleaning up of AN solution spills? One technology that comes
to
my mind is having a weigh bridge under the loading station so that the
road
tanker can be Tared and filled at the same location.

Kindly be aware that AN solution will start to solidify almost immediately
if the temperature is decreased (less than tanker fill temperature).
Thanks
in advance for all suggestions and pointers.
Regards,
Raj Sreenevasan



Radar or ultrasound come to mind. Neither are all that expensive.

If you use a long spout on the filling hose, so it goes to the bottom of the
tank, then measuring the back pressure would do a pretty decent job of
telling you how much you have filled the tanker. Meter the flow at constant
pressure. When the flow rate drops below some value, stop pumping.

Michael
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Raj Sreenevasan
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: Suitable instrument to protect overfilling Ammonium Nitrate solution road tanker Reply with quote

Michael,
One of the problems with both Ultrasonic and High Frequence Radar is that
they are affected by varying density and / or absorbed by Ammonia vapour
that is often found in the vapour space inside the tanker. That is why for
liquid ammonia storage tanks we use the wire-guided radar (rather than the
non-contact variety) and ultrasonic instruments are a bad choice for the
liquid ammonia application.

The old and tested bubbler solution (used in molten sulphur applications) is
rather appealing. I will investigate it further.
Regards,
Raj

"Herman Family" <ecalptsudwaseht.in.reverse@frontiernet.net> wrote in
message news:hFGqg.4724$oa1.2753@news02.roc.ny...
Quote:

"Raj Sreenevasan" <Raj_Sreenevasan@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:rDuqg.21157$ap3.14319@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Hi learned guys,
I do not like to re-invent the wheel and hence would appreciate if
someone
can point me in the right direction:

A road tanker (B Double or it could be an Isotainer) is being filled
with
hot Ammonium Nitrate solution (Temp: 130 to 135 deg C, has to be less
than
140 deg C to comply with ADG code). We wish to install a suitable
instrument (preferably non-contact type and attached to the filling arm)
that will detect and close the filling valve if the level in the road
tanker
rises above safe fill level.

Is there any other alternative solution available to prevent overfill
and
subsequent cleaning up of AN solution spills? One technology that comes
to
my mind is having a weigh bridge under the loading station so that the
road
tanker can be Tared and filled at the same location.

Kindly be aware that AN solution will start to solidify almost
immediately
if the temperature is decreased (less than tanker fill temperature).
Thanks
in advance for all suggestions and pointers.
Regards,
Raj Sreenevasan



Radar or ultrasound come to mind. Neither are all that expensive.

If you use a long spout on the filling hose, so it goes to the bottom of
the
tank, then measuring the back pressure would do a pretty decent job of
telling you how much you have filled the tanker. Meter the flow at
constant
pressure. When the flow rate drops below some value, stop pumping.

Michael



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Raj Sreenevasan
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: Suitable instrument to protect overfilling Ammonium Nitrate solution road tanker Reply with quote

Cameron,
I am now based in Perth. I thought about the optical level switch. But as
I pointed out if the tank surface starts to cool, then AN emulsion will
solidify and may obstruct the optical path.

Secondly it will take quite a bit of money to retrofit the tankers to
accommodate the optical switches. Currently our client is trialling a
temperature probe inserted into the tanker at the filling point (man-hole)
to shut off the filling valve. Since it requires the operator intervention,
I am trying to eliminate the potential personal safety hazard.
Regards,
Raj

"Cameron Dorrough" <cdorrough@nortonconsultants.com> wrote in message
news:e8erp5$c4k$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au...
Quote:
"Raj Sreenevasan" <Raj_Sreenevasan@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:rDuqg.21157$ap3.14319@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Hi learned guys,
I do not like to re-invent the wheel and hence would appreciate if
someone
can point me in the right direction:

A road tanker (B Double or it could be an Isotainer) is being filled
with
hot Ammonium Nitrate solution (Temp: 130 to 135 deg C, has to be less
than
140 deg C to comply with ADG code). We wish to install a suitable
instrument (preferably non-contact type and attached to the filling arm)
that will detect and close the filling valve if the level in the road
tanker
rises above safe fill level.

Is there any other alternative solution available to prevent overfill
and
subsequent cleaning up of AN solution spills? One technology that comes
to
my mind is having a weigh bridge under the loading station so that the
road
tanker can be Tared and filled at the same location.

Kindly be aware that AN solution will start to solidify almost
immediately
if the temperature is decreased (less than tanker fill temperature).
Thanks
in advance for all suggestions and pointers.
Regards,
Raj Sreenevasan

Raj, I know there are small radar gauges around that will do this (maybe
talk to Emerson?) but how about using a high-tempreature version of
Liquip's
optical high level probe that is currently used in fuel tankers all over
the
country?

I can't remember where you moved to now, but have a chat to one of the
tech
guys at Liquip: http://www.liquip.com/locations_australia.html They should
be able to point you in the right direction.

I hope this helps.

Cameron:-)

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