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Request for advice regarding the manufacture of an adjustable spring anchor
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John2005
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:51 pm    Post subject: Request for advice regarding the manufacture of an adjustable spring anchor Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

I have uploaded a small 19KB .GIF file to rapidshare showing a drawing
of a simple adjustable spring anchor I am making from a 10-32 screw.
Here is the download link...

http://rapidshare.de/files/24739574/Spring_Adjustment_Screw.gif.html

Regarding the drawing, an extension spring hook goes through the .098"
hole, and the other end of the screw gets a hex nut that can be no
larger than 5/16" flat to flat, such as part # 90760A411 from
www.mcmaster.com. Due to space limitations, the hex nut must be
adjusted with a box end wrench.

The .359" to .390" OD spring ( similar to the #80583
www.centuryspring.com) uses .08" diameter wire, but the problem I ran
into is that the hole is not really large enough for the spring, due to
the curvature of the hook.

Can a machinist cost effectively just make a .098" wide slot in the
screw, about .145" to .155" long, instead of a .098" OD hole?

I know slots are generally easy to do, but since it is so small, I
wanted to get some feedback. If the slot can be made cost effectively,
It will work well with the spring.

If the slot cannot be made cost effectively, then I must use a larger
screw that will allow for a hole of about .145" OD. A 1/4-20 or 1/4-28
screw would work great, but I could not find a nut that is 5/16" flat
to flat max, and that has a 1/4-20 or 1/4-28 thread.

I did find a 1/4-32 nut (part # 91862A516) from www.mcmaster.com, which
is only 5/16" flat to flat, but then I can't seem to find a screw for
it. Mcmaster also sells a 1/4-40 nut that would work, but same problem,
I cannot find a screw.

I would appreciate any feedback anyone can provide. Hopefully, just
creating a slot in the 10-32 screw is viable and cost effective.

Thanks for your help.
John
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John2005
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Request for advice regarding the manufacture of an adjustable spring anchor Reply with quote

Hi Everyone,

Ned Simmons from another forum just pointed out that it may be cheaper
to machine a flat on the screw, like a standard spring hook shown on
page 3114 of the Mcmaster catalog www.mcmaster.com. For example, see
image of Mcmaster part # 9634k13. This should allow the screw anchor to
clear the hook curvature of the spring.

If I do this, the flat will only be about .0625" thick in order to
clear the spring hook. The spring will only have about 40 to 50 pounds
on it so as long as a thin flat like that can be machined without
problems, it may be a viable option.

Which would be cheaper, machining a slot, or milling a flat like a
standard spring anchor and then drilling the hole ? I tend to think
Neds suggestion is good, since small end mills are probably weak.

Thanks again guys,
John

John2005 wrote:
Quote:
Hi everyone,

I have uploaded a small 19KB .GIF file to rapidshare showing a drawing
of a simple adjustable spring anchor I am making from a 10-32 screw.
Here is the download link...

http://rapidshare.de/files/24739574/Spring_Adjustment_Screw.gif.html

Regarding the drawing, an extension spring hook goes through the .098"
hole, and the other end of the screw gets a hex nut that can be no
larger than 5/16" flat to flat, such as part # 90760A411 from
www.mcmaster.com. Due to space limitations, the hex nut must be
adjusted with a box end wrench.

The .359" to .390" OD spring ( similar to the #80583
www.centuryspring.com) uses .08" diameter wire, but the problem I ran
into is that the hole is not really large enough for the spring, due to
the curvature of the hook.

Can a machinist cost effectively just make a .098" wide slot in the
screw, about .145" to .155" long, instead of a .098" OD hole?

I know slots are generally easy to do, but since it is so small, I
wanted to get some feedback. If the slot can be made cost effectively,
It will work well with the spring.

If the slot cannot be made cost effectively, then I must use a larger
screw that will allow for a hole of about .145" OD. A 1/4-20 or 1/4-28
screw would work great, but I could not find a nut that is 5/16" flat
to flat max, and that has a 1/4-20 or 1/4-28 thread.

I did find a 1/4-32 nut (part # 91862A516) from www.mcmaster.com, which
is only 5/16" flat to flat, but then I can't seem to find a screw for
it. Mcmaster also sells a 1/4-40 nut that would work, but same problem,
I cannot find a screw.

I would appreciate any feedback anyone can provide. Hopefully, just
creating a slot in the 10-32 screw is viable and cost effective.

Thanks for your help.
John
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N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
science forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 2835

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Request for advice regarding the manufacture of an adjustable spring anchor Reply with quote

Dear John2005:

"John2005" <johnjmechanical@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1151865267.904802.257110@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Hi Everyone,

Which would be cheaper, machining a slot, or
milling a flat like a standard spring anchor and
then drilling the hole ? I tend to think Neds
suggestion is good, since small end mills are
probably weak.

How long does the screw need to be? They make (shoulderless) set
screws with "allen wrench" heads on them... up to 1-1/4" long (in
1/4-2Cool.
1/4"-28
length pkg McMaster# $/pkg
3/4" 25 91385A358 8.78
1" 25 91385A363 10.23
1 1/4" 25 91385A362 11.58

Would that help?

David A. Smith
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John2005
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Request for advice regarding the manufacture of an adjustable spring anchor Reply with quote

Hi David,

Thanks for your reply.

I really have to make the adjustment by rotating the nut and not the
screw. I also need a length that is basically like the drawing, i.e.,
1.59" to 1.707". I may be able to change this a little, but I think
1.25" will be too short and I won't have enough adjustment.

Thanks again,
John

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:
Quote:
Dear John2005:

"John2005" <johnjmechanical@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1151865267.904802.257110@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Hi Everyone,

Which would be cheaper, machining a slot, or
milling a flat like a standard spring anchor and
then drilling the hole ? I tend to think Neds
suggestion is good, since small end mills are
probably weak.

How long does the screw need to be? They make (shoulderless) set
screws with "allen wrench" heads on them... up to 1-1/4" long (in
1/4-2Cool.
1/4"-28
length pkg McMaster# $/pkg
3/4" 25 91385A358 8.78
1" 25 91385A363 10.23
1 1/4" 25 91385A362 11.58

Would that help?

David A. Smith
Back to top
Steve Rauenbuehler
science forum beginner


Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Request for advice regarding the manufacture of an adjustable spring anchor Reply with quote

John -

Check out a MS21042-3 nut.

#10-32 thread, and only 1/4" hex.

If you can't find specs. let me know, I can send a spec sheet to you....

Steve R.
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jim1118
science forum beginner


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Request for advice regarding the manufacture of an adjustable spring anchor Reply with quote

John2005 wrote:
Quote:

Hi Everyone,

Ned Simmons from another forum just pointed out that it may be cheaper
to machine a flat on the screw, like a standard spring hook shown on
page 3114 of the Mcmaster catalog www.mcmaster.com. For example, see
image of Mcmaster part # 9634k13. This should allow the screw anchor to
clear the hook curvature of the spring.

If I do this, the flat will only be about .0625" thick in order to
clear the spring hook. The spring will only have about 40 to 50 pounds
on it so as long as a thin flat like that can be machined without
problems, it may be a viable option.

Which would be cheaper, machining a slot, or milling a flat like a
standard spring anchor and then drilling the hole ? I tend to think
Neds suggestion is good, since small end mills are probably weak.

Drilling is likely to be cheaper than machining. Have you considered
using a 10-32 screw with 1/4" head or shoulder and then drilling the
hole thru the head (or shoulder). Look at a 10-32 X 1.75" Cap screw for
instance.

-jim

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John2005
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Request for advice regarding the manufacture of an adjustable spring anchor Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the tips Steve and Jim,

Steve, if you could please email me any specs or sources of supply for
the screw you mentioned that would be great. The email in my profile
here is in working order if you want to just send it there. I did not
know they made a 1/4" hex nut that works on a 10-32 screw, but that
will give me more room for a wrench when I make adjustments, and it's a
big help to be able to use a smaller wrench in the tight space.

Clever thinking Jim !

I never thought about using the head end of a cap screw to put the hook
in. Perhaps I could drill a large enough hole that way, so the
curvature of the spring hook will clear the hole. That way I may be
able to avoid slotting or machining flats. I will check into that. If
the head is big enough for a .145" OD or so hole, it may work well.

Thanks again guys !
John

jim wrote:


Quote:
John2005 wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Ned Simmons from another forum just pointed out that it may be cheaper
to machine a flat on the screw, like a standard spring hook shown on
page 3114 of the Mcmaster catalog www.mcmaster.com. For example, see
image of Mcmaster part # 9634k13. This should allow the screw anchor to
clear the hook curvature of the spring.

If I do this, the flat will only be about .0625" thick in order to
clear the spring hook. The spring will only have about 40 to 50 pounds
on it so as long as a thin flat like that can be machined without
problems, it may be a viable option.

Which would be cheaper, machining a slot, or milling a flat like a
standard spring anchor and then drilling the hole ? I tend to think
Neds suggestion is good, since small end mills are probably weak.

Drilling is likely to be cheaper than machining. Have you considered
using a 10-32 screw with 1/4" head or shoulder and then drilling the
hole thru the head (or shoulder). Look at a 10-32 X 1.75" Cap screw for
instance.

-jim

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
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Steve Rauenbuehler
science forum beginner


Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Request for advice regarding the manufacture of an adjustable spring anchor Reply with quote

Info on the way....

Steve R.

John2005 wrote:
Quote:
Hi everyone,

Thanks for the tips Steve and Jim,

Steve, if you could please email me any specs or sources of supply for
the screw you mentioned that would be great. The email in my profile
here is in working order if you want to just send it there. I did not
know they made a 1/4" hex nut that works on a 10-32 screw, but that
will give me more room for a wrench when I make adjustments, and it's a
big help to be able to use a smaller wrench in the tight space.
Back to top
John2005
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Request for advice regarding the manufacture of an adjustable spring anchor Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

I just checked into the socket head cap screw, but it looks like the
..190" height of the screw is not quite tall enough for a .145" OD hole.
It does not leave much material left for the spring to hook on and may
be weak. Also, the OD of the head may have to be ground down, since its
larger than the .190" threaded portion and will further interfer with
the curvature of the spring hook. It was still a good suggestion though
Jim.

Thanks for sending the info on the nut Steve, I will check my email.
That will help quite a bit with the issues regarding limited space, as
I can now use a smaller box end wrench.

Sincerely,
John

Steve Rauenbuehler wrote:
Quote:
Info on the way....

Steve R.

John2005 wrote:
Hi everyone,

Thanks for the tips Steve and Jim,

Steve, if you could please email me any specs or sources of supply for
the screw you mentioned that would be great. The email in my profile
here is in working order if you want to just send it there. I did not
know they made a 1/4" hex nut that works on a 10-32 screw, but that
will give me more room for a wrench when I make adjustments, and it's a
big help to be able to use a smaller wrench in the tight space.
Back to top
John2005
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Request for advice regarding the manufacture of an adjustable spring anchor Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

After thinking about it, I am afraid if I drill a .098" OD hole through
the threaded portion of a 10-32 screw, it won't be strong enough
because it only leaves .02" on each side of the hole to the minor
diameter of the screw. Plus, the threads may be a stress riser.

I found a Part # 91251A353 from www.mcmaster.com that should work well
for me. I can cut the head off and use the un-threaded .190" OD portion
to drill the .098" OD hole through. However, this screw has a hardness
of Rockwell C39 to C45. Can a flat be machined and a hole drilled
fairly easily with a carbide cutter and drill ? I just wonder if the
screw hardness will be a problem to machine or drill.

I need an overall screw length of about 1.707" and about .69" of usable
thread length. I did not see an un-hardened screw that met my
dimensional requirements and still had an unthreaded portion I could
put the .098" OD hole in.

Please let me know what you guys think.

Thanks again for your help.

Sincerely,
John

John2005 wrote:
Quote:
Hi everyone,

I just checked into the socket head cap screw, but it looks like the
.190" height of the screw is not quite tall enough for a .145" OD hole.
It does not leave much material left for the spring to hook on and may
be weak. Also, the OD of the head may have to be ground down, since its
larger than the .190" threaded portion and will further interfer with
the curvature of the spring hook. It was still a good suggestion though
Jim.

Thanks for sending the info on the nut Steve, I will check my email.
That will help quite a bit with the issues regarding limited space, as
I can now use a smaller box end wrench.

Sincerely,
John

Steve Rauenbuehler wrote:
Info on the way....

Steve R.

John2005 wrote:
Hi everyone,

Thanks for the tips Steve and Jim,

Steve, if you could please email me any specs or sources of supply for
the screw you mentioned that would be great. The email in my profile
here is in working order if you want to just send it there. I did not
know they made a 1/4" hex nut that works on a 10-32 screw, but that
will give me more room for a wrench when I make adjustments, and it's a
big help to be able to use a smaller wrench in the tight space.
Back to top
Steve Rauenbuehler
science forum beginner


Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Request for advice regarding the manufacture of an adjustable spring anchor Reply with quote

John -

Since you were originally looking for a .250 screw solution, with an
associated nut with .312 flats, and an MS21042-4 nut has .312 flats,
could you go back up to that size? That would allow more "meat" around
your spring holding feature (hole or slot).

Just an idea...

Steve R.
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John2005
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:47 am    Post subject: Re: Request for advice regarding the manufacture of an adjustable spring anchor Reply with quote

Hi Steve,

I think the problem with the nut you recommended is that it is a
locknut. I think the resistance to turning that these nuts have would
not be desirable in my situation. It may cause the screw to turn with
the nut, unless someone holds the other end of the screw with pliers or
something. I want the customer to be able to adjust the spring as easy
as possible, with just a cheap box end wrench, maybe even a stamped
wrench I can send with each product.

If I could find a regular 5/16" hex nut to work with a 1/4-20 or
1/4-28 thread, that would be great. A 10-32 socket head cap screw like
the one mentioned in my previous post will also work as long as it is
not too hard to machine and drill.

Thanks again,
John

Steve Rauenbuehler wrote:
Quote:
John -

Since you were originally looking for a .250 screw solution, with an
associated nut with .312 flats, and an MS21042-4 nut has .312 flats,
could you go back up to that size? That would allow more "meat" around
your spring holding feature (hole or slot).

Just an idea...

Steve R.
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N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
science forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 2835

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:06 am    Post subject: Re: Request for advice regarding the manufacture of an adjustable spring anchor Reply with quote

Dear John2005:

"John2005" <johnjmechanical@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1152233242.946876.113590@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
If I could find a regular 5/16" hex nut to work
with a 1/4-20 or 1/4-28 thread, that would be
great. A 10-32 socket head cap screw like
the one mentioned in my previous post will
also work as long as it is not too hard to
machine and drill.

How much adjustment did you need?
There are shoulder bolts, that will have a solid 1/4" shaft, a
hex key head, and a #10 thread... just not much of it and usually
coarse pitch...

McMaster 91259A103
Alloy Steel Standard Shoulder Screw 1/4" Shoulder Dia, 2"
Shoulder Length, 10-24 Thrd
In stock

Quantity Each
1-4 Each $1.33
5 or more $1.13

Also might consider attaching the spring to a lever, and
controlling the lever position with a much simpler screw...

David A. Smith
Back to top
John2005
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: Request for advice regarding the manufacture of an adjustable spring anchor Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

I found a part # 92196A279 from www.mcmaster.com made from 18-8
stainless that should machine fine, but then on the 2D drawing it says
the thread length can vary from 7/8" to fully threaded. I don't know if
they mean the thread length can vary that much on that particular part,
or from part to part.

I need at least .69" of useable screw thread, so I am afraid I won't be
able to use a shoulder screw.

Thanks again,
John

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:
Quote:
Dear John2005:

"John2005" <johnjmechanical@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1152233242.946876.113590@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
If I could find a regular 5/16" hex nut to work
with a 1/4-20 or 1/4-28 thread, that would be
great. A 10-32 socket head cap screw like
the one mentioned in my previous post will
also work as long as it is not too hard to
machine and drill.

How much adjustment did you need?
There are shoulder bolts, that will have a solid 1/4" shaft, a
hex key head, and a #10 thread... just not much of it and usually
coarse pitch...

McMaster 91259A103
Alloy Steel Standard Shoulder Screw 1/4" Shoulder Dia, 2"
Shoulder Length, 10-24 Thrd
In stock

Quantity Each
1-4 Each $1.33
5 or more $1.13

Also might consider attaching the spring to a lever, and
controlling the lever position with a much simpler screw...

David A. Smith
Back to top
John2005
science forum beginner


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Request for advice regarding the manufacture of an adjustable spring anchor Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

I found a Part # 92196A281 from www.mcmaster.com that is made from 18-8
stainless & should work for me. It has a length of 2.5" and the
threaded portion can vary anywhere from 7/8" to 2". That will leave me
enough room to cut the screw to length, and then use a 1/4" long
portion of the non-threaded portion to drill the .098" hole through.

It kills me that the tell you the screw is partially threaded, then the
drawing says the thread can vary from 7/8" to fully threaded or 7/8" to
2" thread. That's a big variance if you are working with or in need of
the un-threaded portion. I wonder why they are so inconsistent with
regards to thread length ?

Anyway, it looks like I have something that will work now.

Thanks again for the feedback guys.

John
John2005 wrote:
Quote:
Hi everyone,

I found a part # 92196A279 from www.mcmaster.com made from 18-8
stainless that should machine fine, but then on the 2D drawing it says
the thread length can vary from 7/8" to fully threaded. I don't know if
they mean the thread length can vary that much on that particular part,
or from part to part.

I need at least .69" of useable screw thread, so I am afraid I won't be
able to use a shoulder screw.

Thanks again,
John

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:
Dear John2005:

"John2005" <johnjmechanical@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1152233242.946876.113590@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
If I could find a regular 5/16" hex nut to work
with a 1/4-20 or 1/4-28 thread, that would be
great. A 10-32 socket head cap screw like
the one mentioned in my previous post will
also work as long as it is not too hard to
machine and drill.

How much adjustment did you need?
There are shoulder bolts, that will have a solid 1/4" shaft, a
hex key head, and a #10 thread... just not much of it and usually
coarse pitch...

McMaster 91259A103
Alloy Steel Standard Shoulder Screw 1/4" Shoulder Dia, 2"
Shoulder Length, 10-24 Thrd
In stock

Quantity Each
1-4 Each $1.33
5 or more $1.13

Also might consider attaching the spring to a lever, and
controlling the lever position with a much simpler screw...

David A. Smith
Back to top
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