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Max Tegmark's Objections Against Hameroff's Microtubule Consciousness Idea
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Jack Sarfatti
science forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 487

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:33 am    Post subject: Max Tegmark's Objections Against Hameroff's Microtubule Consciousness Idea Reply with quote

http://www.hep.upenn.edu/%7Emax/brain.pdf
Whilst all of Max Tegmark's calculations are correct, they do not ask
the correct question.
"The Question is: What is The Question?" John A. Wheeler who is
Tegmark's mentor.
Nowhere in Max's paper does he mention PW Anderson's "More is different"
except for a passing informal reference to superconductors, superfluids,
macro-quantum Bose-Einstein condensates. None of Max's useful
calculations have ODLRO in the lower order reduced density matrices
whose "phase rigidity" is an effective barrier against the thermal
decoherence mechanisms he mentions. Note that the qubits of the
alpha-beta superpositions of the electrons in the dimers should not be
considered as individual fragile quantum superpositions subject to the
decoherence calculated by Tegmark.

Rather we have a STIFF macro-quantum ODLRO parameter of the form

PSI(x) = R(x)e^S(x)

Where S(x) is the macroquantum relative phase between alpha and beta and

R(x)^2 ~ density of phase-locked dimers at x.

We really need to do a resolution-scale dependent "wavelet" analysis
here - this is only a crude first toy model.

The mental information is HOLOGRAPHICALLY encoded in the STIFF STABLE
MACRO-QUANTUM PHASE S(x) in which we use Herbert Frohlich's PUMPED
collective electric dipole modes in which 1/Pump Power ~ effective
temperature. Ordinary thermal decoherence of the Tegmark type is irrelevant.

On Jul 16, 2006, at 7:06 PM, Puthoff@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/16/2006 10:39:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
sarfatti@pacbell.net writes:
Cramer's handshake supplemented by signal nonlocality - in every case
of successful RV the subject learns the details of the target in the
future. This information is sent back in time in a self-consistent
"Novikov" loop. This conjecture is falsifiable, e.g. subject dies
before learning details of target yet the prediction is true.
Could be falsified by Price's RV of Semipalatinsk. Though he got
feedback on his drawing of the crane, he insisted that the site had to
do with development of technology for space travel, concerning which the
intell evaluators unanimously disagreed. He died shortly thereafter.
At the end of the cold war, however, it was found that his claim was
correct.

Of course, you can save your hypothesis by saying that he got feedback
after he died! :-)

Hal
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OsherD
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: Max Tegmark's Objections Against Hameroff's Microtubule Consciousness Idea Reply with quote

Quote:
From Osher Doctorow mdoctorow@comcast.net

Jack Sarfatti typed:

Quote:
Whilst all of Max Tegmark's calculations are correct, they do not ask
the correct question.
"The Question is: What is The Question?

Stuart Hameroff's (Arizona) and Sir Roger Penrose's microtubules
hopefully work better than Hameroff's and Sir Roger's ability to
communicate with or even address people outside their "select circles",
which in my opinion is very low.

Hameroff, from my own experience, arguably runs his forums even worse
than sci.physics.research which is a moderated exclusivist elitist
control-freak forum.

Sir Roger seems to be unable to communicate with the public on the
internet (he actually dislikes the internet very much according to some
of his colleagues) and reserves his "free coin distribution to the
poor" for the rest of us in his occasional books, which are written
more in the style of the Royal Chocolate Endorsement than in the style
of wit and honesty and openness of Feynman or Socrates or Shakespeare
or even Greene.

Osher Doctorow
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yt56erd
science forum Guru


Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: Max Tegmark's Objections Against Hameroff's Microtubule Consciousness Idea Reply with quote

OsherD wrote:

Quote:
From Osher Doctorow mdoctorow@comcast.net

Jack Sarfatti typed:

Whilst all of Max Tegmark's calculations are correct, they do not ask
the correct question.
"The Question is: What is The Question?

Stuart Hameroff's (Arizona) and Sir Roger Penrose's microtubules
hopefully work better than Hameroff's and Sir Roger's ability to
communicate with or even address people outside their "select circles",
which in my opinion is very low.

Hameroff, from my own experience, arguably runs his forums even worse
than sci.physics.research which is a moderated exclusivist elitist
control-freak forum.

Sir Roger seems to be unable to communicate with the public on the
internet (he actually dislikes the internet very much according to some
of his colleagues) and reserves his "free coin distribution to the
poor" for the rest of us in his occasional books, which are written
more in the style of the Royal Chocolate Endorsement than in the style
of wit and honesty and openness of Feynman or Socrates or Shakespeare
or even Greene.

Osher Doctorow

k0okf1te.

its all going on today!
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