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Forum index » Science and Technology » Physics » Acoustics
"Black" Tones?
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bert stoltenborg
science forum addict


Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: "Black" Tones? Reply with quote

Angelo Campanella wrote:
Quote:
Kari Pesonen wrote:
Have a look at
http://www.holosonics.com/technology.html

I am not sure whether the paramtric system depicted has a sigificant
domestic value, certainly not for wide area entertainment as for
essentially all existing PA and entertainment systems.

Perhaps that parametric approach works for targeted sound delivery
points, e.g. answering the door, where you want speech sound only at the
head of the visitor, or speaking to just one or two persons in a room
full of occupants.

Angelo Campanella

Ang,

such devices using IM distortion to get beamed sound are made for musea
to point info at a narrow spot.
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Mike Rieves
science forum beginner


Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:23 am    Post subject: Re: "Black" Tones? Reply with quote

"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1152981721.172731.285660@35g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

Jonessy wrote:
Not sure if we are thinking of the same thing, but "BLACK NOISE"
(opposite of white-noise) is basically quiet (no sound) with random
bursts of energy.

I am not at all talking about "black noise". I am talking about "black
tone". There is a huge difference.

Black-tone is to the ear what black-light [400 nm light] is to the eye.

Black light is so called because it is light that we can't see (the light

given off by black light bulbs isn't really black light, it's high frequency
visible light). Black sound, if anyone other than you chose to call it that,
would be sound that we can't hear. Strong UV light sources can damage the
eye and strong ultrasonic sound can damage the ears, so both should be
avoided.
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Brian Marston
science forum beginner


Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: "Black" Tones? Reply with quote

The ship mounted ones look good.
In recent piracy reports, the crew refers to "sound cannons" to deter
boarding parties. It's interesting to see the interviews where in the
background stands what appear to be a rather hefty version of the audio
spotlight.

bert stoltenborg wrote:
Quote:
Angelo Campanella wrote:

Kari Pesonen wrote:

Have a look at
http://www.holosonics.com/technology.html

I am not sure whether the paramtric system depicted has a sigificant
domestic value, certainly not for wide area entertainment as for
essentially all existing PA and entertainment systems.

Perhaps that parametric approach works for targeted sound delivery
points, e.g. answering the door, where you want speech sound only at the
head of the visitor, or speaking to just one or two persons in a room
full of occupants.

Angelo Campanella


Ang,

such devices using IM distortion to get beamed sound are made for musea
to point info at a narrow spot.
Back to top
Radium
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:03 am    Post subject: Re: "Black" Tones? Reply with quote

Mike Rieves wrote:
Quote:
"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1152981721.172731.285660@35g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Jonessy wrote:
Not sure if we are thinking of the same thing, but "BLACK NOISE"
(opposite of white-noise) is basically quiet (no sound) with random
bursts of energy.

I am not at all talking about "black noise". I am talking about "black
tone". There is a huge difference.

Black-tone is to the ear what black-light [400 nm light] is to the eye.


Black light is so called because it is light that we can't see (the light
given off by black light bulbs isn't really black light, it's high frequency
visible light). Black sound, if anyone other than you chose to call it that,
would be sound that we can't hear. Strong UV light sources can damage the
eye and strong ultrasonic sound can damage the ears, so both should be
avoided.

Okay.

What frequency of sound would be to the ear what 400 nm light is to the
eye?
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Mikie
science forum beginner


Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:27 am    Post subject: Re: "Black" Tones? Reply with quote

"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in
news:1153011827.237145.91550@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:

Quote:

Mike Rieves wrote:
"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1152981721.172731.285660@35g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Jonessy wrote:
Not sure if we are thinking of the same thing, but "BLACK NOISE"
(opposite of white-noise) is basically quiet (no sound) with
random bursts of energy.

I am not at all talking about "black noise". I am talking about
"black tone". There is a huge difference.

Black-tone is to the ear what black-light [400 nm light] is to the
eye.


Black light is so called because it is light that we can't see (the
light
given off by black light bulbs isn't really black light, it's high
frequency visible light). Black sound, if anyone other than you chose
to call it that, would be sound that we can't hear. Strong UV light
sources can damage the eye and strong ultrasonic sound can damage the
ears, so both should be avoided.

Okay.

What frequency of sound would be to the ear what 400 nm light is to
the eye?


It's fascinating to observe how quickly an exchange between a technical
moron and a troll can devolve from idle nonsense to total absurdity.
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Radium
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:07 am    Post subject: Re: "Black" Tones? Reply with quote

mikie wrote:
Quote:
"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in
news:1153011827.237145.91550@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:


Mike Rieves wrote:
"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1152981721.172731.285660@35g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Jonessy wrote:
Not sure if we are thinking of the same thing, but "BLACK NOISE"
(opposite of white-noise) is basically quiet (no sound) with
random bursts of energy.

I am not at all talking about "black noise". I am talking about
"black tone". There is a huge difference.

Black-tone is to the ear what black-light [400 nm light] is to the
eye.


Black light is so called because it is light that we can't see (the
light
given off by black light bulbs isn't really black light, it's high
frequency visible light). Black sound, if anyone other than you chose
to call it that, would be sound that we can't hear. Strong UV light
sources can damage the eye and strong ultrasonic sound can damage the
ears, so both should be avoided.

Okay.

What frequency of sound would be to the ear what 400 nm light is to
the eye?


It's fascinating to observe how quickly an exchange between a technical
moron and a troll can devolve from idle nonsense to total absurdity.

I asked "What frequency of sound would be to the ear what 400 nm -- or
750 THz -- light is to the eye?"

What is absurb about my question?
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Angelo Campanella
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 226

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:40 am    Post subject: Re: "Black" Tones? Reply with quote

Radium wrote:
Quote:
What frequency of sound would be to the ear what 400 nm light is to the
eye?

First, the nit-picker's version:

"Light is but one octave from about 400 to 800 nanometers, but sound
that we hear is perhaps 7 octaves." (more not pickers will attack that
statement). So there is analogy".

My version:

Since 400 nm is "just above", I'll propose 20 to 25 kHz (since I knew
one person that heard 21 kHz).


Thus, "black light" might be the dog whistle or movement sensor frequency.

But UV is famous (besides causing sunburn) for causing fluorescence.

So, are we in a sunburn discussion or a fluorescence discussion?

Angelo Campanella


>
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EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: "Black" Tones? Reply with quote

In alt.sci.physics.acoustics, Radium <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote:

Quote:
2. If there is a "visual" something, what is its "auditory" equivalent?


So then what is the auditory equivalent of the color yellow?

--
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
--Edward R. Murrow
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Radium
science forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:05 am    Post subject: Re: "Black" Tones? Reply with quote

EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:
Quote:
In alt.sci.physics.acoustics, Radium <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote:

2. If there is a "visual" something, what is its "auditory" equivalent?



So then what is the auditory equivalent of the color yellow?

Difficult to say. The auditory equivalent of red color is probably
somewhere around 20 hz because that is around the lowest frequency most
humans can perceive fully as sound. Below 20 hz, the "sound" begins to
lose its auditory qualities and become a tactile -- rather than
auditory -- entity.

To answer your question about yellow, I think the auditory equivalent
is probably around 200 - 300 hz, but I this is a very rough estimate
and I could be SO wrong.

Quote:
--
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
--Edward R. Murrow
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EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.
science forum beginner


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:32 am    Post subject: Re: "Black" Tones? Reply with quote

In alt.sci.physics.acoustics, Radium <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote:

Quote:
So then what is the auditory equivalent of the color yellow?

Below 20 hz, the "sound" begins to
lose its auditory qualities and become a tactile -- rather than
auditory -- entity.

Ah! Is THAT why infrared radiation smells so bad?

--
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
--Edward R. Murrow
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