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HoPpeR© trading at 1492¥
science forum beginner
Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 46
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 Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:55 am Post subject:
A Question about the population here
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I just found this group. I have some experience in the groups but
never really thought of looking for a controls group. I happened
across this group and was surprised to find a population. I thought I
would post a little about myself and ask the regulars here to say
hello.
I have been in instrumentation and controls for 25 years and started
my own business about 15 years ago. My main customer base is the
water/wastewater industry and small manufacturing plants. I started
out learning controls in the US Navy where I took care of the control
systems for the main propulsion plants on a conventional aircraft
carrier (USS JFK). These controls were mainly pneumatic. Later I went
to work for a company that contracted control systems work for the
Navy and merchant marines. During that period I trained and went to
school learning electronics/electricity and ended up running the labs
at the company that I worked for at the time. This was in the mid 80's
and I was also busy playing with those new fancy computers that had
just come around and learned to write code. I'm talking about hex
here. Later I learned some assembly languages which of course are now
pretty useless other that understanding the history of computers, PLC
and such. Blah bla blaaaa.
Anyhow, I moved back to my hometown and started a business, basically
whoring out myself to anyone that would pay for my knowledge and found
no shortage of work. My business did well and grew for six or seven
years until I had the bad experience of having mental meltdown after a
string of bad luck. At this point I should sidebar and explain a few
things just to be fair.
It turns out that my family has a history of bipolar disorder (manic
depression) and Celiac disease. It took me a while to get diagnosed
properly and learn what I needed to do to get well again. For anyone
that does not know bipolar disorder is a genetic predisposition for
having swings in mood. Celiac disease is a genetic autoimmune problem
where the immune system sees gluten which is in bread as a poison and
reacted against it, damaging the body. Celiac also causes mental
confusion and mood swings. It appears to have triggered what the
psychiatrists call bipolar disorder and I ended up having a wild ride
of depression and hypomania. I do not recommend it. If anyone wants to
simulate it, try taking speed one week and then valium the next for a
few years and come talk to me. Anyway enough of that. The cure is
pretty simple. I now eat only a few things that do not have the stuff
that makes me sick. These medical problems pretty well screwed my
business for a few years. I had to drop out for about six years now. I
did not stay away from the industry and know some of what has
transpired since then. I also took the time to investigate some
emerging tech that I though would be hot soon and am in the process of
building a business again.
So I thought that I might hang around here for a while and see whether
you guys were all idiots or worthy of my notice. :-] Just a joke here.
Flame me if you want. It makes no matter. I do have a lot of
experience in a lot of different areas and I still am pretty sharp,
though a bit slower getting around. Feel free to say hello or comment.
I need to spend some time researching the industry. For instance I
was reading another post about nonlinear loading and followed a link
to a web site one of you guys have up for their company. I see that he
is using a software program to model process response. I never had
this option and one of the things that I was well known for was my
ability to tune complex systems by feel. I always was surprised at how
poorly it seemed that most control techs understood the PID loop.
Throw nonlinear I/O into this and forget it. Anyway like I said, I
have a lot of experience in a lot of areas. I just touched on some of
the things I have done. Hopefully that will come later.
I'm hoping that I will find a population here of some really bright
people with good solid knowledge and experience. Maybe I can learn
some new things which I am always open to and bring something to this
group. Maybe I can make some good friends. I prefer to be positive.
UseNet is a strange world. During my sick time I participated in a
support group for bipolar disorder which I found very helpful, but
also a rough place. Hopefully the sci groups will not be this way.
BTW can someone direct me to the FAQ for this group?
Be well,
HoP
The preceding message represents personal opinions
and/or advice that may prove incorrect or harmful. But then maybe not.
Feel free to disregard.
------- Words have no Warranty ------
------- No View without Merit ------ |
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Jerry Avins
science forum Guru
Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 534
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:15 am Post subject:
Re: A Question about the population here
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HoPpeR© trading at 1492¥ wrote:
| Quote: | I just found this group. I have some experience in the groups but
never really thought of looking for a controls group. I happened
across this group and was surprised to find a population. I thought I
would post a little about myself and ask the regulars here to say
hello.
|
...
Well then, hello. I'm retired, so this is a sort of busman's holiday for
me. I used to do a fair bit of instrumentation and control, along with
mechanicking, machining, logic, and analog circuit design. I live in
central New Jersey, where I was a member of a local sewerage authority
during its construction and startup. I'm still associated with it as a
member of the Oversight Committee, and I can put you in touch with
people familiar with the state of the art. Maybe you'd like to read my
notes on servo design at http://users.rcn.com/jyavins/servo.html. Maybe
you'll yawn or laugh.
Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ |
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Tim Wescott
science forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 292
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:00 pm Post subject:
Re: A Question about the population here
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HoPpeR© trading at 1492¥ wrote:
| Quote: | ...
It turns out that my family has a history of bipolar disorder (manic
depression) and Celiac disease.
|
My boys and I have Celiac. The best description I have of the effects
are "it's like being a mean drunk without the drunk". I am continually
thankful that my wife figured out what was going on and got us all off
of wheat.
| Quote: | ... The cure is
pretty simple. I now eat only a few things that do not have the stuff
that makes me sick.
|
Don't limit yourself -- there are a wide variety of things you can eat,
particularly if you cook for yourself. Celiac is getting more
recognition, as well, so the amount of stuff on the market is
continually expanding.
| Quote: | ...
So I thought that I might hang around here for a while and see whether
you guys were all idiots or worthy of my notice. :-]
|
There are surprisingly few idiots here -- only the trolls that just pick
newsgroups at random.
| Quote: | ...
I need to spend some time researching the industry. For instance I
was reading another post about nonlinear loading and followed a link
to a web site one of you guys have up for their company. I see that he
is using a software program to model process response. I never had
this option and one of the things that I was well known for was my
ability to tune complex systems by feel.
|
I do embedded control, which is a slightly different animal (itty bitty
clean things, as opposed to great big dirty things), but I suspect that
you'll find that software simulation is great for commissioning systems
and helping get the loop values at some sensible starting point, but
once the system is in place you'll never need the simulation. This is
my experience with embedded controls -- I use simulation to prototype
the loop, but once it works in hardwary I tune it using emperical data.
| Quote: | I always was surprised at how
poorly it seemed that most control techs understood the PID loop.
|
Your average run-of-the-mill software engineer also has problems.
| Quote: | Throw nonlinear I/O into this and forget it.
|
Yes, that's what consultants are for!
--
-------------------------------------------
Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com |
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John Popelish
science forum addict
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 83
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject:
Re: A Question about the population here
|
|
|
HoPpeR© trading at 1492¥ wrote:
| Quote: | I just found this group. I have some experience in the groups but
never really thought of looking for a controls group. I happened
across this group and was surprised to find a population. I thought I
would post a little about myself and ask the regulars here to say
hello.
|
Hi, and welcome.
| Quote: | I have been in instrumentation and controls for 25 years and started
my own business about 15 years ago. My main customer base is the
water/wastewater industry and small manufacturing plants. I started
out learning controls in the US Navy where I took care of the control
systems for the main propulsion plants on a conventional aircraft
carrier (USS JFK). These controls were mainly pneumatic. Later I went
to work for a company that contracted control systems work for the
Navy and merchant marines. During that period I trained and went to
school learning electronics/electricity and ended up running the labs
at the company that I worked for at the time. This was in the mid 80's
and I was also busy playing with those new fancy computers that had
just come around and learned to write code. I'm talking about hex
here. Later I learned some assembly languages which of course are now
pretty useless other that understanding the history of computers, PLC
and such. Blah bla blaaaa.
(snip) |
I went other way round. Started out training as an electronic circuit
designer, and got backed into controls when no one else nearby was
willing to volunteer for the work. I was amazed that all that
feedback theory that unfolds in amplifiers in microseconds, observed
with a good oscilloscope, also happens in factories, but while you
have a cup of coffee.
I look forward to your contributions to the group. |
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Jerry Avins
science forum Guru
Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 534
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:41 pm Post subject:
Re: A Question about the population here
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|
Tim Wescott wrote:
...
| Quote: | Don't limit yourself -- there are a wide variety of things you can eat,
particularly if you cook for yourself. Celiac is getting more
recognition, as well, so the amount of stuff on the market is
continually expanding.
|
My daughter and her two children also have difficulty with wheat
products. It's not full-blown celiac disease, but real none the less.
Fortunately, they tolerate spelt well, and I do a fair amount of baking
with it. (I haven't dried making pasta with it.) I keep rice and/or
quinoa pasta on hand for when they visit. There is a local store where I
can buy all of that and spelt bread too. Bless your wife!
Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ |
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HoPpeR© trading at 1492¥
science forum beginner
Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 46
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:04 pm Post subject:
Re: A Question about the population here
|
|
|
On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 09:00:38 -0700, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com>
proclaimed to the world:
| Quote: | HoPpeR© trading at 1492¥ wrote:
...
It turns out that my family has a history of bipolar disorder (manic
depression) and Celiac disease.
My boys and I have Celiac. The best description I have of the effects
are "it's like being a mean drunk without the drunk". I am continually
thankful that my wife figured out what was going on and got us all off
of wheat.
... The cure is
pretty simple. I now eat only a few things that do not have the stuff
that makes me sick.
Don't limit yourself -- there are a wide variety of things you can eat,
particularly if you cook for yourself. Celiac is getting more
recognition, as well, so the amount of stuff on the market is
continually expanding.
|
Well my problems are a bit more complex. I appear to be sensitive to
other things like MSG and such. I have to just try something and see,
so the quickest way to health was to eliminate everything and then
start adding back one thing at a time. It is still a slow process and
I am not well today from some mystery munchy. Also meds have fillers
that get me. But yes, there has been an improvement. It took a long
time to get diagnosed. Like you my wife and I did it ourselves and
forced the doctors to see. Long story. It runs in my family. Mom and
two sisters have it, plus their kids. No one knew what it was until I
got to the bottom of it. Mom died from it. Now my sisters are well.
There are a lot of less known symptoms of this too which we have.
| Quote: | ...
So I thought that I might hang around here for a while and see whether
you guys were all idiots or worthy of my notice. :-]
There are surprisingly few idiots here -- only the trolls that just pick
newsgroups at random.
|
I am well familiar with the trolls.
| Quote: | ...
I need to spend some time researching the industry. For instance I
was reading another post about nonlinear loading and followed a link
to a web site one of you guys have up for their company. I see that he
is using a software program to model process response. I never had
this option and one of the things that I was well known for was my
ability to tune complex systems by feel.
I do embedded control, which is a slightly different animal (itty bitty
clean things, as opposed to great big dirty things),
|
Actually I followed embedded controls pretty closely and was excited
about taking this up myself. I have/had a lot of applications to use
this with. Which chip are you using?
but I suspect that
| Quote: | you'll find that software simulation is great for commissioning systems
and helping get the loop values at some sensible starting point, but
once the system is in place you'll never need the simulation. This is
my experience with embedded controls -- I use simulation to prototype
the loop, but once it works in hardwary I tune it using emperical data.
|
This is what I would suspect too. Starting out in pneumatics for high
pressure boilers and turbines for warships made it necessary to learn
how to tune complex systems quick. I believe the spec for tuning was
10 to 90% load in 45 seconds with set point deviations no greater than
5% and stability within 3 min. With all the steam subsystems and
catapult requirements, it was a demanding system. That would not be
hard with electronics but the navy did not trust those to work in
battle. Rightly so too.
| Quote: |
I always was surprised at how
poorly it seemed that most control techs understood the PID loop.
Your average run-of-the-mill software engineer also has problems.
Throw nonlinear I/O into this and forget it.
Yes, that's what consultants are for!
|
I guess I should be grateful.
Nice meeting you. I took a look at your web site. Your in OR, right?
I'm in VA. I hope to get a lot out of this group. It appears that
there are people here that I can gain alot from and perhaps I will
contribute. I am impressed and surprised. UseNet, as I said is a
strange place.
Be well,
HoP
The preceding message represents personal opinions
and/or advice that may prove incorrect or harmful. But then maybe not.
Feel free to disregard.
------- Words have no Warranty ------
------- No View without Merit ------ |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Tim Wescott
science forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 292
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:24 pm Post subject:
Re: A Question about the population here
|
|
|
HoPpeR© trading at 1492¥ wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 09:00:38 -0700, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com
proclaimed to the world:
|
snip
| Quote: |
I do embedded control, which is a slightly different animal (itty bitty
clean things, as opposed to great big dirty things),
Actually I followed embedded controls pretty closely and was excited
about taking this up myself. I have/had a lot of applications to use
this with. Which chip are you using?
What chip have I not used? I've been at this for quite a while. I've |
used Motorola's (Freescale now) 68HC11 (in assembly for speed and a
24-bit integrator), Intel's 80196 and 80186, the Motorola's MPC820,
Analog Devices' ADSP 2185 and TI's TMS320F2812. I've written control
code in assembly, C and C++. I've consulted on projects that use the
ARM processor and one of the the Renassis 16-bitters. There's a wide
range of processors that are suitable, depending on the problem at hand.
-------------------------------------------
Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com |
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HoPpeR© trading at 1492¥
science forum beginner
Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 46
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:31 pm Post subject:
Re: A Question about the population here
|
|
|
On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 14:01:15 -0400, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net>
proclaimed to the world:
| Quote: | I went other way round. Started out training as an electronic circuit
designer, and got backed into controls when no one else nearby was
willing to volunteer for the work. I was amazed that all that
feedback theory that unfolds in amplifiers in microseconds, observed
with a good oscilloscope, also happens in factories, but while you
have a cup of coffee.
I look forward to your contributions to the group.
|
Thanks John. I do electronic design some too. What you said about
feedback and such reminds me of my weird trip into the nature of the
human mind when I started having mood swings. My training and
experience in controls gave me a unique opportunity to look out how
the human condition operates from inside the head of one that was not
doing so well. There is nothing as educating as watching something
broken trying to work. I've learned a lot about the brain and mind.
I've learned a lot about myself. Actually it was very crushing to my
ego. Romantic ideas I had about humanity were exposed for what they
were. Most people never really understand how little they really
control about who they are. The animal side of use at least is nothing
more than a machine with complex controls loops. What more than this
are we? I do not know, but I have a lot more compassion for those that
got built a little less well than I did.
Be well,
HoP
The preceding message represents personal opinions
and/or advice that may prove incorrect or harmful. But then maybe not.
Feel free to disregard.
------- Words have no Warranty ------
------- No View without Merit ------ |
|
| Back to top |
|
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HoPpeR© trading at 1492¥
science forum beginner
Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 46
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:12 pm Post subject:
Re: A Question about the population here
|
|
|
On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 18:22:07 -0400, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net>
proclaimed to the world:
| Quote: | HoPpeR© trading at 1492¥ wrote:
Thanks John. I do electronic design some too. What you said about
feedback and such reminds me of my weird trip into the nature of the
human mind when I started having mood swings. My training and
experience in controls gave me a unique opportunity to look out how
the human condition operates from inside the head of one that was not
doing so well. There is nothing as educating as watching something
broken trying to work. I've learned a lot about the brain and mind.
I've learned a lot about myself. Actually it was very crushing to my
ego. Romantic ideas I had about humanity were exposed for what they
were. Most people never really understand how little they really
control about who they are. The animal side of use at least is nothing
more than a machine with complex controls loops. What more than this
are we? I do not know, but I have a lot more compassion for those that
got built a little less well than I did.
I had a related realization when my wife started having hot flashes
and couldn't believe that her temperature was not actually changing
rapidly. She was feeling the output swings of a control loop who's
setpoint was undergoing step changes. The process variable was not
changing at all, at the moment of the experienced step.
|
And I bet she did not appreciate you thinking about it in this manner!
Be well,
HoP
The preceding message represents personal opinions
and/or advice that may prove incorrect or harmful. But then maybe not.
Feel free to disregard.
------- Words have no Warranty ------
------- No View without Merit ------ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Popelish
science forum addict
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 83
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:22 pm Post subject:
Re: A Question about the population here
|
|
|
HoPpeR© trading at 1492¥ wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks John. I do electronic design some too. What you said about
feedback and such reminds me of my weird trip into the nature of the
human mind when I started having mood swings. My training and
experience in controls gave me a unique opportunity to look out how
the human condition operates from inside the head of one that was not
doing so well. There is nothing as educating as watching something
broken trying to work. I've learned a lot about the brain and mind.
I've learned a lot about myself. Actually it was very crushing to my
ego. Romantic ideas I had about humanity were exposed for what they
were. Most people never really understand how little they really
control about who they are. The animal side of use at least is nothing
more than a machine with complex controls loops. What more than this
are we? I do not know, but I have a lot more compassion for those that
got built a little less well than I did.
|
I had a related realization when my wife started having hot flashes
and couldn't believe that her temperature was not actually changing
rapidly. She was feeling the output swings of a control loop who's
setpoint was undergoing step changes. The process variable was not
changing at all, at the moment of the experienced step. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HoPpeR© trading at 1492¥
science forum beginner
Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 46
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject:
Re: A Question about the population here
|
|
|
On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 14:24:05 -0700, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com>
proclaimed to the world:
| Quote: | What chip have I not used? I've been at this for quite a while. I've
used Motorola's (Freescale now) 68HC11 (in assembly for speed and a
24-bit integrator), Intel's 80196 and 80186, the Motorola's MPC820,
Analog Devices' ADSP 2185 and TI's TMS320F2812. I've written control
code in assembly, C and C++. I've consulted on projects that use the
ARM processor and one of the the Renassis 16-bitters. There's a wide
range of processors that are suitable, depending on the problem at hand.
|
I have heard some about Freescale and when I was looking into working
with embedded the ARM was about it. I have had some things I wanted to
patent, manufacture and market in the past. A few of these needed some
custom chips, at least until production volume allowed a chip run. I
don't think this is out of the question for the future depending on
health and my ability to regrow finances.
What does a typical small project end up costing your clients? I'm
just thinking of future possibilities. Perhaps this is best taken
offline.
Be well,
HoP
The preceding message represents personal opinions
and/or advice that may prove incorrect or harmful. But then maybe not.
Feel free to disregard.
------- Words have no Warranty ------
------- No View without Merit ------ |
|
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